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Ma3oxuct
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I do not eat pork (unless I have full assurance that it is properly cooked) because when its not cooked right it can really make you sick. I eat sausages and bacon, but I never order pork when I go to a resturant or something. |
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ChristyMcJesus
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ma3oxuct wrote: | | I do not eat pork (unless I have full assurance that it is properly cooked) because when its not cooked right it can really make you sick. I eat sausages and bacon, but I never order pork when I go to a resturant or something. |
Sure you're not thinking of chicken? |
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vificunero
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Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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Location: Milan Italy EU
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Pork is more than tasty. If God exists pork is the most beuatiful present for human beings.
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ChristyMcJesus
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| vificunero wrote: | | Pork is more than tasty. If God exists pork is the most beuatiful present for human beings. |
I prefer beef tbh. |
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aidy
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure it's original purpose was to prevent disease, pork does rot very fast in high temperatures. Same with the meat/vegetable seperating mania of the jews.
It's a stupid rule that has absolutely no purpose in modern life, it only encourages thinking that humans are a sort of ubercreature. |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | vificunero wrote: | | Pork is more than tasty. If God exists pork is the most beuatiful present for human beings. |
I prefer beef tbh. |
i prefer beef as a slab of meat but i prefer pork in sausages or bacon |
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gowator
n00b
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
Location: France 75
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: | | ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: | | with jews its a part of their ritual, ie. not eating pork and other dirty animals. with muslims, i think the story was that a pig had something to do with muhammad and they cant eat pig since then or something like that. i cant remember what the exact story was. |
I'm pretty sure that Islam is just a ripoff of Judaism, and they've inherited all the useless beliefs such as "pigs are dirty, foreskins are dirty" etc. |
I dont think that Quran teaches circumcission  |
So why do they do it then? |
i think it was actually one of the pre-islamic traditions. |
Indeed it is an old aincient Egyptian tradition.
Under the belief system a little bit of woman was carried into the man ans visa versa ...this part was the end of the forskin and the clitorus.
Egyptians beleived that cutting this away cleased the body of the part of the opposite sex that would pervert it.
The first Judiac circumcision was Abraham .. his motives may be questioned but he almost certainly learned the tradition while in Egypt. The koran states it is a "good thing" "or "highly desirable" for devout people to do... but it says the same for trimming the beard too which is why wahabists do not trim their beards. It was also regarded as cleanliness, something Muslims were fastidious about compared to the dirty unwashed Christains of the time. However Omar II (Umayyed Caliphate, 717- 712 AD) even argued against religious circumcision!
In the period of enlightenment and greatest tolerance kufr were not forced to convert or be circumcised, indeed it was uncommon for Syrian Christians to be so. This is largely because Saul/Paul had a thing about it and actually decreed noone circumcised could be a Christian (except him) and later recounted to only those who were voluntarily circumscised. However this was viewed as a way for extra tax on Christains (since the Jews and Muslims were very cosy at the time and the Jews were the principle merchants betwen occident and orient).
When the crusades happened the tolerance for dirty barbarians dissapeared and with it the tolerance of uncircumcised people. Hardly surprising when you take a culture who bathed infrequently and then went to a hot country wearing chain mail! Back then the average Christian must have stank like the worst tramp you ever pass by and gag on the smell! |
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plbe
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mmmm bacon, I never understood why people don't eat pork....Some people say its a dirty animal...wtf aren't all animals more or less dirty? and its anyones guess what and where any meat goes through before it ends up on your plate. Seems like one of those stupid moral or ethical principles with no backing...this is the way it is?why?because it is. pft |
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nighty
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 217
Location: right behind you.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | so lets get this straight... They dont eat pork because of things that happened 2000 years ago? Methinks it is time for eyes to open and see that things have moved on. |
my answer will be short out of time constraints but ill try to convey most of it.
jews dont eat pork just because its a dirty animal. thats only one of the reasons and certainly not the primary one.
throughout our history, both ancient and less ancient the pig has both repeatedly and frequently came to symbolize both the rituals of the goyim, their blasphemous way of life which was symbolized to the dirty life of the pig and most importantly the oppression of jews by the goyim through history.
a similar reason for jews not mixing milk and meat (aside from the original moral argument in the commandment) was because it was commonly used in rituals by the canaanites and therefore was given a more general and strict enforcement in judaism.
hypocricy is an important issue in both judaism and islam.
the pig is the only animal which not kosher which has cloven hoofs. this is usually a sign for a kosher animal. however it doesnt chew its cud and therefore not kosher. by these inherent features the pig has grown to symbolize the moral hypocricy of following the rules of god and blasphemous life. there are even instances in the bible which use the pig as a metaphore for amalek. amalek were an ancient people who constantly attacked the israelites even after every nation has seen that god was with the jewish people. therefore many consider amalek as the first atheist people and they symbolize the concept of rejecting god.
hence to jews, eating and growing pork does not symbolize only a sin. it symbolizes the rejection of god and abandoning the jewish people and joining those who throughout history have oppressed the jews.
so theres the small case for it. you dont have to agree with it since most of you do not believe in a god. but i only assume that if you put yourself in the shoes of those who do you will see the sense behind it.
Last edited by nighty on Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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madchaz
l33t
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 955
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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To go back to the original post, because it's bad for you 
Pork is usualy a rather fat meal, because the meat itself is fat and because the way it is prepared doesn't usualy help.
Another good reason would be because it's not canadien pork. Canadien pork kicks the ass of any other pork out there.
If it's canadien pork and you don't eat it often, then I'm out of arguments. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go eat some bacon 
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 15989
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Because its vile.
Besides...
Don't eat pork.
Not even with a fork!
--Rapping Rabbi
...the Simpsons is the only guide you'll ever need.
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allucid
Veteran
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1314
Location: atlanta
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: What is wrong with eating pork? |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I'd like some people to convince me that people shouldn't eat pork. We need some good reasons. And "my religion says not to" isn't a proper answer. |
| Pulp Fiction wrote: | Vincent: Want some bacon?
Jules: No man, I don't eat pork.
Vincent: Are you Jewish?
Jules: Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that's all.
Vincent: Why not?
Jules: Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.
Vincent: Bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.
Jules: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfucker. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eat nothin' that ain't got enough sense enough to disregard its own faeces.
Vincent: How about a dog? Dogs eats its own feces.
Jules: I don't eat dog either.
Vincent: Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?
Jules: I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules: Well we'd have to be talkin' about one charmin' motherfuckin' pig. I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'? |
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Fitzzy
n00b
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Fitzville
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: What is wrong with eating pork? |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I'd like some people to convince me that people shouldn't eat pork. We need some good reasons. And "my religion says not to" isn't a proper answer. |
Nothing wrong.
Good meat, and until you've had a decent "Ropa Vieja" or some chinese pork delicacy, you haven't got the foggiest about how good pork is. |
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John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 436
Location: Desperately seeking Moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing wrong with a crispy bacon sandwich - done until its gone beyond black and shatters if tapped on a table, type thing.
I do have issues with bacon that's just shown the frying pan and is still pink and blubbery. I've met people that actually like rashers like that. Takes all sorts I suppose.
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/dev/random
l33t
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 704
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: What is wrong with eating pork? |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I'd like some people to convince me that people shouldn't eat pork. We need some good reasons. And "my religion says not to" isn't a proper answer. |
Well I was going to quote the master Samuel L. Jacksons, but allucid beat me to it.
Even with that in mind I love pig derived foods.
| John-Boy wrote: | Nothing wrong with a crispy bacon sandwich - done until its gone beyond black and shatters if tapped on a table, type thing.
I do have issues with bacon that's just shown the frying pan and is still pink and blubbery. I've met people that actually like rashers like that. Takes all sorts I suppose. |
I happen to like chewy bacon. Mostly because when I was little I choked on some crunchy bacon so when I wasn't afraid of bacon anymore I wanted it nice and chewy. Now I've just acquired a taste for it. |
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Tasslehoff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 100
Location: BC Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | Ma3oxuct wrote: | | I do not eat pork (unless I have full assurance that it is properly cooked) because when its not cooked right it can really make you sick. I eat sausages and bacon, but I never order pork when I go to a resturant or something. |
Sure you're not thinking of chicken? |
Nope pork is a problem too, if you cook the pork well you shouldnt have any problems. This applies to the whole pig family including bear |
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Naib
Advocate
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 3891
Location: UK - Birmingham
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Tasslehoff wrote: | | ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | Ma3oxuct wrote: | | I do not eat pork (unless I have full assurance that it is properly cooked) because when its not cooked right it can really make you sick. I eat sausages and bacon, but I never order pork when I go to a resturant or something. |
Sure you're not thinking of chicken? |
Nope pork is a problem too, if you cook the pork well you shouldnt have any problems. This applies to the whole pig family including bear |
bear or boar?
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| Quote: | | Voting holds no real power, he who counts the votes has the true power. |
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whats the difference between 9/11 and a cow?
u stop milking a cow after 10 years |
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Xylene
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Pork products usually have more fat than other meats, but besides that, no reason not to eat it. |
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feliperal
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: What is wrong with eating pork? |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I'd like some people to convince me that people shouldn't eat pork. We need some good reasons. And "my religion says not to" isn't a proper answer. |
Jules Winnfield:
Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.
Vincent Vega:
Yeah but bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.
Jules Winnfield:
Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfuckers. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eating nothing that ain't got sense enough to disregard his own feces. |
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Tasslehoff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 100
Location: BC Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | Tasslehoff wrote: |
Nope pork is a problem too, if you cook the pork well you shouldnt have any problems. This applies to the whole pig family including bear |
bear or boar? |
I dont have experiance with boar but probably as well. Bear is a member of the pig family just like boar. Though they look nothing alike. |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| nighty wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | so lets get this straight... They dont eat pork because of things that happened 2000 years ago? Methinks it is time for eyes to open and see that things have moved on. |
my answer will be short out of time constraints but ill try to convey most of it.
jews dont eat pork just because its a dirty animal. thats only one of the reasons and certainly not the primary one.
throughout our history, both ancient and less ancient the pig has both repeatedly and frequently came to symbolize both the rituals of the goyim, their blasphemous way of life which was symbolized to the dirty life of the pig and most importantly the oppression of jews by the goyim through history.
a similar reason for jews not mixing milk and meat (aside from the original moral argument in the commandment) was because it was commonly used in rituals by the canaanites and therefore was given a more general and strict enforcement in judaism.
hypocricy is an important issue in both judaism and islam.
the pig is the only animal which not kosher which has cloven hoofs. this is usually a sign for a kosher animal. however it doesnt chew its cud and therefore not kosher. by these inherent features the pig has grown to symbolize the moral hypocricy of following the rules of god and blasphemous life. there are even instances in the bible which use the pig as a metaphore for amalek. amalek were an ancient people who constantly attacked the israelites even after every nation has seen that god was with the jewish people. therefore many consider amalek as the first atheist people and they symbolize the concept of rejecting god.
hence to jews, eating and growing pork does not symbolize only a sin. it symbolizes the rejection of god and abandoning the jewish people and joining those who throughout history have oppressed the jews.
so theres the small case for it. you dont have to agree with it since most of you do not believe in a god. but i only assume that if you put yourself in the shoes of those who do you will see the sense behind it. |
Good answer nighty. First I need to ask a couple of questions then discuss a bit with you.
My first question is who are the Goyim?
My second one would be why these ancient people are relevant in todays society?
If you understand how pigs work you will understand that they are not in fact dirty at all. Pigs live in mud, not shit. They may shit where they live but so do most animals and if you were to take the ones that dont live in it then you would only be eating cat. The way pigs clean themselves is they roll around in the mud and then let it dry so when they shake the mud off it takes all the things like insects with it, so compared to most animals they are cleaner.
I can understand the symbolism point but if we can understand why things were written then and they can be avoided now, why can't pork be eaten? Priests and Rabbis can make a point that times have changed and because of that there is no point in still doing it. If we go back to living like we did then i expect Judaism to change back. |
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aaronf0
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| jesus came and told them they can eat pigs now... they didnt want to listen, they lose out, sucks for them. |
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gowator
n00b
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
Location: France 75
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: |
My first question is who are the Goyim?
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Traditionally just a mildly disdainful work for a non Jew. Goy=nation = those not of Isreal or Judea...
| Quote: | | My second one would be why these ancient people are relevant in todays society? |
see above
| Quote: | If you understand how pigs work you will understand that they are not in fact dirty at all. Pigs live in mud, not shit. They may shit where they live but so do most animals and if you were to take the ones that dont live in it then you would only be eating cat. The way pigs clean themselves is they roll around in the mud and then let it dry so when they shake the mud off it takes all the things like insects with it, so compared to most animals they are cleaner.
I can understand the symbolism point but if we can understand why things were written then and they can be avoided now, why can't pork be eaten? Priests and Rabbis can make a point that times have changed and because of that there is no point in still doing it. If we go back to living like we did then i expect Judaism to change back. |
Many Jewish decended people are non-kosher but pigs have a special significance in that the Jews were often forced to eat pig by conquering nations (such as the Romans). Those who are not religious (since Judaism can't seem to decide if its a race or religion and those who don't beleive in God are still called Jews???) might try it with the same disdain we would have for insects ... which btw I have eaten but it is something that sticks in the throat .. like the first time I had sushi ... |
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nighty
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 217
Location: right behind you.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: |
My first question is who are the Goyim?
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well it has two meanings. the classic definition that goy means a nation. god has promised jacobs to make his decendants into a "goy gadol among the goyim" (a large nation among other nations). so there are many instances in the bible in which this word is used on the people of israel.
in general it also means "non jewish nations". the singular form literally means "a non-jewish person" the
word isnt similar in its rashness of meaning to words like heretic or infidel. the hebrew equal to these words is "kofer" which is quite similar to the arabic word "kafir".
| Quote: |
My second one would be why these ancient people are relevant in todays society?
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thats a good question.
the relevancy exists as an allegory to the concept of atheism but not to atheists. jews show very little zeal into converting people into judaism unlike the other religions. i cant say that it doesnt exist but judaism is a much closer society. this has allowed for the dwindling of its ranks around the world and widespread secularism in israel for example.
the jews have learned to hate amalek but that means those significant people and not atheists in general.
when the jews wandered the sinai amalek constantly and brutally raided the jews and attacked mostly the old and the weak among the travelers. they were barbaric people which did not believe in any god but in the principle of survival of the fittest. amalek attacked the jews regardless of the miracles of god because his existence contrasted with their ideology and therefore they recieved a ruthless treatment.
today the idea that one could be defined by ones origin is morally absurd. and every jew accepts that. people are determined not by where or to whom they were born but by the choices they make in the journeys of their lives.
nonetheless the idea of Amalek remains relevant. ive once heard someone define amalek as:
"Amalek is any and all people who represent blind hatred and malice that leads to terrible evil".
jews are commanded to "remember Amalek". not only because of other nations action but mostly because of their own relation to the jewish people. because the loss of its memory would mean the return of nations who go by the ideals of survival of the fittest which jews believe to be a source a great suffering in the world.
| Quote: |
If you understand how pigs work you will understand that they are not in fact dirty at all. Pigs live in mud, not shit. They may shit where they live but so do most animals and if you were to take the ones that dont live in it then you would only be eating cat. The way pigs clean themselves is they roll around in the mud and then let it dry so when they shake the mud off it takes all the things like insects with it, so compared to most animals they are cleaner.
I can understand the symbolism point but if we can understand why things were written then and they can be avoided now, why can't pork be eaten? Priests and Rabbis can make a point that times have changed and because of that there is no point in still doing it. If we go back to living like we did then i expect Judaism to change back. |
because this symbolism helps define the jewish people. if you take the supposedly "hard" to follow bits from each religion the path to abandoning it will be much shorter. if i made you speak english without the charm of your accent and flourishing way with words unlike the rest of the western world or making you stop adding milk to your tea would you still feel like the same person?
in the end, i fully agree that today pork can be considered a clean animal. but personally care very little for the hygene argument. people do this silly stuff or invent other silly stuff because noone else would and it reminds them to stick toghether like they have in the past. and frankly, with it being alot more easy than it looks and not harming anyones rights or any animals life i see very little reasoning for it to stop.
if you want some other argument is that on average jews eat alot more chicken than pork. pork has high cholesterol and fat and most fitness and diet experts suggest chicken for people who work out as the better/healthy protein source. |
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petrjanda
Veteran
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 1556
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| gowator wrote: | The koran states it is a "good thing" "or "highly desirable" for devout people to do... but it says the same for trimming the beard too which is why wahabists do not trim their beards. It was also regarded as cleanliness, something Muslims were fastidious about compared to the dirty unwashed Christains of the time.
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uhh wrong. the koran says nothing about circumcission, hadith does. i believe muslim circumcission is part of sunnah (trying to be like muhammad, who was circumcised). no doubt though it came from pre-islamic roots.
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Off the Wall
