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curtis119
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gowator
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 Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Beetle B. wrote: | | wrote: | | It is already treason shariah law calls for a complete replacement of the legal system and government. |
Then empower your government to try all such people in the UK for treason.
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It already is... however what you fail to understand is that real legal systems have concepts such as tolerance.
Hence people can be seen to have views which they spread but which are not considered harmful enough to interpupt that persons freedom.
Your whole comments about legal systems seem to make it sound like you beleive the crap that shariah law is written by god and is perfect .
We are left with an imperfect legal system. It has loophole and it has lassitude ... and flexibility because that is how it developed over the last 1000 years... its not meant to be perfect, its meant to be flexible.
| Quote: | | wrote: | Lets have a vote hey... lets make sure the UK population actually know what shariah is and that non muslims will only be allowed to reside in the UK under a covenant and subject to execution for stupid things then put forwards a democratic vote.
1) We enact shariah law
2) Anyone calling for shariah law will be deported
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I agree if it's put truthfully (e.g. non-Muslims are no more subject to execution under Shariah law than Muslims are), and if you add a third choice: Do neither. |
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Once again you bring up your racist bullshit. Do you think I care if the people being executed are muslim or non muslim? Even if it only applied to muslims it is completely unacceptable in a civilised society.
A third choice is no choice, we are talking about introducing shariah law ... taking the country back to the stoneage where people are lynched and abused for superstition. Reintroducing witch hunts and taking away the basic human rights of 50% of the population. When you are voting over something as disgusting as shariah law there can be no opt out. Either the UK wants it or not... if not its about time we stop the tolerance and start deporting those who call for shariah. |
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curtis119
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Beetle B. wrote: | | wrote: | | It is already treason shariah law calls for a complete replacement of the legal system and government. |
Then empower your government to try all such people in the UK for treason. |
why? It make us better than the animals that do |
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gowator
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| curtis119 wrote: | | OK, wait a minute. Is the UK actually considering shariah law? WTF? I am totally confused here. Has the entire world gone insane!!! OMFSM! |
A small but vocal component of the Muslim population are calling for an armed uprising .. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1777503.stm
A larger but less vocal minority want shariah law implemented for muslims...
Several people (presumably muslim) have been arguing the fact that shariah law should be a viable option in the UK... and support stoning thier wives etc. ifg they are unfaithful. (etc) and claim that it should be considered as a 'democratic' change to the UK !
| gowator wrote: | | Akhouk wrote: | | gowator wrote: | | LordMyth wrote: | OK...
so why exactly are woman to be stoned when they cheat on their men? And why exactly isn't there the same thing for men? |
Because usually the women are denouced as witches and because of the stigma their family often goes along with it. The man gets off scot free since he was influenced by evil spirits .... |
Gowator, that is the biggest load of crap that I have heard you say yet on these forums. |
Really ...
http://europa.eu.int/comm/europeaid/projects/eidhr/pdf/islamic-criminal-law-nigeria_en.pdf
Not the findings of the EU aid commision to Nigeria ... on the human rights violations by imposing shariah law.
Shariah is simply the most disgusting vile system devised ... |
In case anyone is in any doubt as to what shariah law is I suggest reading the EU commision report above.
See pages 16-20 for a summary.
And finally just because I think those who support shariah law in the UK should leave and go and live somewhere with shariah law I have been called racist!
Just like Sir Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the UK Commission for Racial Equality ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4752804.stm
| Quote: | | And he suggested that Muslims who wanted a system of Islamic Shariah law should leave the UK. |
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curtis119
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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These people honestly believe that they can have two sets of legal codes, one for muslims and one for the rest? They honestly think the UK is going to allow them to stone people to death? Holy freaking crap. These cults have to be stopped. It is high time we put our foot down and erase the utterly horrifying damage that christian/muslim/jewish cults have inflicted on our society. STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!
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John-Boy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| curtis119 wrote: | | These people honestly believe that they can have two sets of legal codes, one for muslims and one for the rest? |
Yes and by the way things are going over here, you know, it wouldn't surprise me one little bit if it eventually happened.
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gowator
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| curtis119 wrote: |
These people honestly believe that they can have two sets of legal codes, one for muslims and one for the rest? They honestly think the UK is going to allow them to stone people to death? Holy freaking crap. These cults have to be stopped. It is high time we put our foot down and erase the utterly horrifying damage that christian/muslim/jewish cults have inflicted on our society. STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!! |
Well thats the problem with religion.
From page 16 of the report..
| Quote: |
The reintroduction of Shari'a criminal law is in the first place justified on religious grounds. Many Muslims believe that in order to be good Muslims they must live in an Islamic order, enforced by the state. |
The problem is that they see this as the only way they can live thier lives properly. Unfortunately it just so happens to rather interupt mine (and rather more your's) .. but this is a fundamental and unalienable part of fundamentalist Islam... they can't buy a house if they need a mortgage with interest so they have to change that, laws can only be defined by god and are immutable so all the non shariah laws have to go... the government cannot be a democracy but composed of religious figures so then that has to go.
Lets not forget the large number of Muslims who have moved to Europe just to climb out the the stone age their culture has them trapped in. Even if we considered allowing shariah law for 'Muslims' what about them? What about the guy who moved to the UK because he ws being persecuted or in dnager of death... what if someone who is stamped muslim (what do we do have red cresent arm bands?) doesn't want to be muslim, the only penalty under shariah is execution!
Its come to something when the best I can come up with is deport them but I am really at a loss as to any other way to preserve civilisation! |
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Grandmastrshake
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: pig |
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| well I guess it has something to do with the bible and it saying thats its a sin to eat it cus it has hoofs but like i really care. I don't practice any religion any ways. i love some bbq pork chops |
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Naib
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Location: UK - Birmingham
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Akhouk wrote: | | Naib wrote: |
Difference being most societies bar Islamic societies have advanced and have reconised woman as equaly. You go on about 19C Britain. Well how about 20C Britain when we had a Female Prime Minister? America are on the Verge of having a female Presedent as well, Yet Islamic countries (and muslims in general) still treat women as 2nd class citizens, idolisms last seen in the 14C.
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As I said in my other post, Islam does not recognise equality because apart from the undenyable fact that men and women are different equality is unjust. The reality is that every Western country has slightly different rules and regulations for women then they do for men. Islam lifts up the status woman and gives her some rights that the men don't have. This is justice and reflect the difference between men and women. To follow the Western system would mean taking some rights away from women.
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 yes women have tits men have willies, but from a society point of view there really is no reason why women cannot be equal, it is people like you and the rest of Islam that is holding women's rights back. Women died in Britain during the women's suffrage movement to get women the right to vote, to lay the foundations for equality of the sexes in society (one even threw herself under the kings horse [think it was the kings horse] during the grand national!!! FFS)
| Quote: |
Some countries do not extend suffrage to women, or extend it differently from that extended to men (this list does not include countries where neither men nor women have suffrage):
* Bhutan -- Partial suffrage. One vote per house, which in practice prevents many women from voting.
* Brunei -- No suffrage for women.
* Lebanon -- Partial suffrage. Proof of education required for women, not required for men. Voting compulsory for men, optional for women.
* Saudi Arabia -- No suffrage for women.
* Kuwait -- No suffrage for women yet. The vote is to be extended to women by 2007. [1].
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Voting aside, equality through society. Why should a man get a job when a women also applied and is better qualified? what extra rights do women have and why would they have to give them up? yes women can bear children, guess what they do over here as well. Women here get paternaty leave (my wife is looking at 2months full pay!!! then 4weeks at severly reduced pay) I can only take 2weeks !!!! so yer there are examples of inequality BUT it isn't against women!!!!
Equally some may say that men get paid more then women, well my wife gets paid significantly more then me (she is a pharmacist in the NHS working on ITU in drug managemet) while I am an engineer in R&D working on some extreamly exciting stuff. She acknowledges tha tI could (give a few years learning) do her job BUT she could never do mine (takes a special mind to hack in VHDL and deal with 1000Amps of current with 1200Volts of potential with 150kW of rotational power  ) so yes again there is equality in the west BUT NOT AGAIST WOMEN!!!.
What is it you fear about giving women rights? they are afterall wired pretty much exactly the same as a man (as far as the brain is concerned) what a man can think a women can think
| Akhouk wrote: |
| Naib wrote: |
True Islam was the first to reconsise women I have stated that and at the time such a reconistion was revolutionary, but such a revelation stalled. Muslims cherish teh fact that their book has not been altered but it is that fact that leaves them in the 14C.
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No, technically it would leave us in the 6C since Islam has not changed its great respect for women since then.  Back in the 6C we were ahead of where the West have got today. |
And there was me giving you and the rest of your lot the benefit of being in the 14C, so you are treating women with 6Century idolisms in a 21Century world and you dont see anything backwards with that?
Guess what a women helped get the OS you are using working!!!! SHOCK HORROR!!!! women can think and do stuff
| Akhouk wrote: |
| Naib wrote: |
You cannot start counter-argements abt how Britain treated its women in the 19C when we live in the 21C.
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Considering the UK only gave the vote to women within my grandmothers life time and some Western European countries have given vote to women within my life time I think it is completely fair for me to use it as an example. The West has recently started crawling out of its years of darkness and suddenly thinks they are the king of the road and that they have reached the pinnacle of understanding. The West in general has a level of arrogance that is quite sickening. I am sure that future Western generations will look back on the current selfish and materialistic generation and think it is a generation they best forget about. |
Yes we gave women the right to vote fiarly recenlty, quite a few (muslim) country's still havn't. Your point. Islam is backwards. Again you are comparing something that the west did in the 20C when we live in the 21C, Islam is stuck in the 6C and have not moved on from stoning women and accusing them of witchcraft!!!!! STONE HER, BURN HER, DUNK HER.
| Akhouk wrote: |
| Naib wrote: |
Right now at this date there are women in power in this country, what is the highest postition a women can get to in a Islamic/Sharia law country?
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Your words highlight a fundamental difference between the thinking of our two cultures. Particularly the word "power". It is this seeking of power that has made the West such a imperialist force in the world. In Islam we do not seek power. In fact, one of the conditions of anyone being a leader in Islam is that he does not seek to be a leader as the Prophet Muhammed told us not to make anyone leader who asks to be the leader. Also, as we don't have a legal system where laws are fabricated by the people of power like in the West we don't have the same power hungry people. In Islam laws are interrpretd by scholar based on what is in the Quran and in the Sunnah.
As for the woman issue than there is nothing wrong with them holding positions within government type institutions and become people of knowledge. Actually, one of the rights of a wife over her husband is education in Islamic knowledge. What the Prophet Muhammed said though is that a people will not be lead to success if they have a woman as a leader. |
So the "Muslim" world does not have figured of "power" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..
hang on I need a piss I am going to wet myself...
...
Societies need someone in power to stop it decending into Anarchy, even if a country did decend into anarchy someone would eventually end up in power it is the nature of all societies, Islam is not imune to this. Shit there is a Muslim in an Islamic country in charge of that country, in power no less, wanting to develope nuclear power and equally take Isreal off the map.
DO not use your religion as some kind of staging post to take the moral high ground, it is such a weak foundation
Power attracts the corruptable, apsolute power corrupts.
Guess what there are muslims that are currupt
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| everyone in the world should be forced to eat bacon. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbaconmmmmmmmmmm |
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Naib
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | everyone in the world should be forced to eat bacon. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbaconmmmmmmmmmm |
With or without HP-sauce?
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John-Boy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | everyone in the world should be forced to eat bacon. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbaconmmmmmmmmmm |
With or without HP-sauce? |
Or Blackpudding ?
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Naib
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | everyone in the world should be forced to eat bacon. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbaconmmmmmmmmmm |
With or without HP-sauce? |
Or Blackpudding ? |
and some fried bread and some mushrooms, shit still hours before breakfast!!!!
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aidy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The voting thing is fixed when you introduce sharia law. No voting at all! Tadaa! |
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Grandmastrshake
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: food |
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| bacon sandwich for breakfast a plate of bacon for a snack a bowl of bacon for lunch, a bag of bacon for snack, and a trash bag of bacon for dinner right |
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Beetle B.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| wrote: | | Either the UK wants it or not |
Exactly. Your choices were not enact Shariah or not. It was enact Shariah or banish it altogether. Those are two separate issues, and each needs a separate vote. You can choose not to enact it and not to deport people.
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why? It make us better than the animals that do |
Well, he claims that his legal system makes calling for Shariah treason. I'm just asking them to then follow their own legal system and try them for treason.
| wrote: |
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!! |
I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I am suggesting is that it be done legally.
| wrote: |
SHOCK HORROR!!!! women can think and do stuff |
And where in this thread has someone suggested otherwise?
| wrote: |
Islam is stuck in the 6C |
All this 6th, 14th, 20th and 21st century talk is irrelevant - on both sides. It is a fundamental flaw to assume that society progresses monotonically. One only needs to look at the Greeks in their era compared to that region in the Dark Ages. There's no law in human nature that states that because people are enjoying liberties today implies that they never did in the past.
| wrote: | | Societies need someone in power to stop it decending into Anarchy, even if a country did decend into anarchy someone would eventually end up in power it is the nature of all societies, Islam is not imune to this. |
No system is.
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Beetle B. wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | why? It make us better than the animals that do |
Well, he claims that his legal system makes calling for Shariah treason. I'm just asking them to then follow their own legal system and try them for treason. |
yeah...? We don't execute people. We, as a country and a system, have evolved past that |
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Beetle B.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| wrote: | | yeah...? We don't execute people. We, as a country and a system, have evolved past that |
Yeah? And where was it suggested that you execute people?
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Naib
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Beetle B. wrote: | | wrote: | | yeah...? We don't execute people. We, as a country and a system, have evolved past that |
Yeah? And where was it suggested that you execute people? |
by people wanting Sharia law, in calling for that they are calling for executution. FFS follow the thread!!!
We outlawed hangings decades ago, the EU banned executions as well.
We are not going back to those barbaric days.
And that is only the EXECUTION aspect of Sharia law!!! the rest isn't much better
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Naib
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Beetle B. wrote: |
| wrote: |
why? It make us better than the animals that do |
Well, he claims that his legal system makes calling for Shariah treason. I'm just asking them to then follow their own legal system and try them for treason.
| wrote: |
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!! |
I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I am suggesting is that it be done legally. |
AND what we are saying is it cannot be done legally or not. For Sharia law to come in it would have to be broken up and aspects of it merged into our (as well as accepted by the EU law) over time. Can Sharia law work in a modular format? NO. To call for Sharia is to call for a change in our legal system which is TREASON. There was a time where you would get hung for that. But we have moved on from those days of executing our criminals, has Islam?
| Beetle B. wrote: |
| wrote: |
SHOCK HORROR!!!! women can think and do stuff |
And where in this thread has someone suggested otherwise?
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So what possible reason is there for not giving women eqaul rights and treating them like humans?
| Beetle B. wrote: |
| wrote: |
Islam is stuck in the 6C |
All this 6th, 14th, 20th and 21st century talk is irrelevant - on both sides. It is a fundamental flaw to assume that society progresses monotonically. One only needs to look at the Greeks in their era compared to that region in the Dark Ages. There's no law in human nature that states that because people are enjoying liberties today implies that they never did in the past. |
Actually it is quite relevant. in the 6C we believed in magic and executing witches. These days we dont, and in fact "witches" practice in the UK, Islam however are stuck in the 6C and just stone ppl to death. You dont think that is a tad barbarric. The US executes but it does it by the chair,injection,gas which in comparrision to stoning is instantanious.
Stoning is barbarric end of!!!
| Beetle B. wrote: |
| wrote: | | Societies need someone in power to stop it decending into Anarchy, even if a country did decend into anarchy someone would eventually end up in power it is the nature of all societies, Islam is not imune to this. |
No system is. |
and yet it has been suggested that Islam doesn't seek power, but to keep a society in order some overlord is required. Your point
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Lepaca Kliffoth
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: pig |
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| Grandmastrshake wrote: | | well I guess it has something to do with the bible and it saying thats its a sin to eat it cus it has hoofs but like i really care. I don't practice any religion any ways. i love some bbq pork chops |
Pigs have hooves? Since when?
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Beetle B. wrote: | | wrote: | | yeah...? We don't execute people. We, as a country and a system, have evolved past that |
Yeah? And where was it suggested that you execute people? |
I was just pointing it out. We have evolved past the uneducated, ill-informed, barbaric, pathetic Sharia Law. It is what makes countries with it look like 2nd class countries and the lowest of the low. Even 3rd world countries have more respect because quite a few have democracy and proper laws and independant governing systems that have changed in the last 1400 years. |
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Naib
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | Beetle B. wrote: | | wrote: | | yeah...? We don't execute people. We, as a country and a system, have evolved past that |
Yeah? And where was it suggested that you execute people? |
I was just pointing it out. We have evolved past the uneducated, ill-informed, barbaric, pathetic Sharia Law. It is what makes countries with it look like 2nd class countries and the lowest of the low. Even 3rd world countries have more respect because quite a few have democracy and proper laws and independant governing systems that have changed in the last 1400 years. |
its pointless trying to hold a logical discussion with someone who is stuck in the 6C, back then they thought the world was flat. What hope do we have in showing through logical discussion the error's in Sharia and trying to implement it in a 21C Britain
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm just fed up of pussy-footing around the subject and trying to be PC |
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