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| Which style do you prefer, and why? |
| old style |
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30% |
[ 50 ] |
| new style |
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58% |
[ 94 ] |
| mix of both (please explain) |
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11% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 162 |
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Genone Retired Dev


Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 8690 Location: beyond the rim
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: emerge -pv output style |
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For portage-2.1_pre there is a new output style for showing use flags and other variables. While the display of these additional vars (like LINGUAS or VIDEO_CARDS) is generally accepted some other changes are currently discussed/reconsidered:
- changing the sort order from strictly alphabetic to a separation of activated and deactivated flags
- display of new/changed flags even without -v (can be disabled -q)
- removing the + prefix from activated flags
- prefixing the list of USE flags with USE=""
As this might not be very clear here are examples for both the old and new style (sorry, no colors):
New style
| Code: | $ emerge -pv wine
[ebuild R ] app-emulation/wine-0.9.5 USE="X alsa cups gif jpeg ldap ncurses opengl truetype xml2 -arts -debug -esd -glut -jack -lcms -nas -oss -scanner" 0 kB
$ USE=-opengl emerge -pv wine
[ebuild R ] app-emulation/wine-0.9.5 USE="X alsa cups gif jpeg ldap ncurses truetype xml2 -arts -debug -esd -glut -jack -lcms -nas -opengl* -oss -scanner" 0 kB
$ USE=-opengl emerge -p wine
[ebuild R ] app-emulation/wine-0.9.5 USE="-opengl*"
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Old style
| Code: |
$ emerge -pv wine
[ebuild R ] app-emulation/wine-0.9.5 +X +alsa -arts +cups -debug -esd +gif -glut -jack +jpeg -lcms +ldap -nas +ncurses +opengl -oss -scanner +truetype +xml2 0 kB
$ USE=-opengl emerge -pv wine
[ebuild R ] app-emulation/wine-0.9.5 +X +alsa -arts +cups -debug -esd +gif -glut -jack +jpeg -lcms +ldap -nas +ncurses -opengl* -oss -scanner +truetype +xml2 0 kB
$ USE=-opengl emerge -p wine
[ebuild R ] app-emulation/wine-0.9.5
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So to get a bit more feedback on the issue I'd like to know which style do you prefer? And maybe even more important, why.
Last edited by Genone on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jamesdick628 Apprentice


Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 158 Location: Worcester, MA
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I like the new style better. The separation makes it easier to see which flags are enabled/disabled, and putting USE= in front seems to make it look less cluttered. |
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ph03n1x l33t


Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 756
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I like the new style better. But one could get rid of the USE=" which is just using up console space. I think it's clear that the following stuff are useflags. |
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pablo_supertux Advocate


Joined: 25 Jan 2004 Posts: 2552 Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesdick628 wrote: | | I like the new style better. The separation makes it easier to see which flags are enabled/disabled |
Yes, I agree. _________________ A! Elbereth Gilthoniel!
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath,
Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
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amne Bodhisattva


Joined: 17 Nov 2002 Posts: 6377 Location: Graz / EU
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| Genone wrote: |
- changing the sort order from strictly alphabetic to a separation of activated and deactivated flags
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No big opinion about it, in doubt go with new style.
| Genone wrote: |
- display of new/changed flags even without -v
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Great idea, haven't even noticed it as i use -v all the time.
| Genone wrote: |
- removing the + prefix from activated flags
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Good idea as USE doesn't accept + anyway.
| Genone wrote: |
- prefixing the list of USE flags with USE=""
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No big opinion about it.
So summing it up, i really like the new style portage. Even though only a small amount of things was slightly changed it really feels much better. _________________ Dinosaur week! (Ok, this thread is so last week) |
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Maedhros Bodhisattva


Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 5511 Location: Durham, UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to be the first voice of dissent here then.
I don't like the new-style sorting - I find it easier to find USE flags if they're in strict alphabetical sorting; the colours are enough to differentiate them IMO. I also don't like the fact that enabling or disabling a flag changes its position in the list. I don't like displaying the USE flags without the -v option set either - I can use it when I want to see which USE flags are enabled, but there are times when I just want a list of packages to be installed. WIth some packages, e.g. PHP, there are so many USE flags that it gets in the way of what I want to see sometimes.
I don't really mind either way about prefixing enabled flags with a +, and while I think the display was slightly cleaner without the USE="" part, it makes sense if we're going to be able to see the other variables that can be enabled as well. _________________ No-one's more important than the earthworm. |
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j-m Retired Dev

Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 975
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Maedhros wrote: |
I don't like the new-style sorting - I find it easier to find USE flags if they're in strict alphabetical sorting; the colours are enough to differentiate them IMO. I also don't like the fact that enabling or disabling a flag changes its position in the list. I don't like displaying the USE flags without the -v option set either - I can use it when I want to see which USE flags are enabled, but there are times when I just want a list of packages to be installed. WIth some packages, e.g. PHP, there are so many USE flags that it gets in the way of what I want to see sometimes.
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+1
New style makes me mad...  |
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amne Bodhisattva


Joined: 17 Nov 2002 Posts: 6377 Location: Graz / EU
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Maedhros wrote: | I'm going to be the first voice of dissent here then.
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Hah, let's burn him on a stake!
| Maedhros wrote: |
I don't like the new-style sorting - I find it easier to find USE flags if they're in strict alphabetical sorting; the colours are enough to differentiate them IMO. I also don't like the fact that enabling or disabling a flag changes its position in the list. |
You may have a point here.
| Maedhros wrote: | I don't like displaying the USE flags without the -v option set either - I can use it when I want to see which USE flags are enabled, but there are times when I just want a list of packages to be installed. WIth some packages, e.g. PHP, there are so many USE flags that it gets in the way of what I want to see sometimes.
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As far i understand it without -v it would only show new/changed USE-Flags, not all. _________________ Dinosaur week! (Ok, this thread is so last week) |
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omp Retired Dev


Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 1018 Location: Los Angeles, California
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| Genone wrote: | | changing the sort order from strictly alphabetic to a separation of activated and deactivated flags |
Like it a lot.
| Genone wrote: | | display of new/changed flags even without -v |
Don't care.
| Genone wrote: | | removing the + prefix from activated flags |
Like it. Less clutter.
| Genone wrote: | | prefixing the list of USE flags with USE="" |
Dislike it. _________________ http://omp.am/ - my new domain
http://twitter.com/ompskees - oh noes! twitter  |
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StringCheesian l33t

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 887
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Same as omp.
"display of new/changed flags even without -v" sounds useful, but I'd probably keep using -v anyway to see flags I might want to change.
I'd like to be able to suppress USE="" in the output. |
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ecatmur Advocate


Joined: 20 Oct 2003 Posts: 3595 Location: Edinburgh
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Etal Veteran


Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1580
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like the USE="" and I actually like the +signs...
But otherwise I like it! _________________ “And even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people discover new facts and making governments more accountable.”– Hillary Clinton, Jan. 21, 2010 |
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Reikinio Apprentice


Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 203 Location: Uruguay
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer the old style,
| Maedhros wrote: |
I'm going to be the first voice of dissent here then.
I don't like the new-style sorting - I find it easier to find USE flags if they're in strict alphabetical sorting; the colours are enough to differentiate them IMO. I also don't like the fact that enabling or disabling a flag changes its position in the list. I don't like displaying the USE flags without the -v option set either - I can use it when I want to see which USE flags are enabled, but there are times when I just want a list of packages to be installed. WIth some packages, e.g. PHP, there are so many USE flags that it gets in the way of what I want to see sometimes.
I don't really mind either way about prefixing enabled flags with a +, and while I think the display was slightly cleaner without the USE="" part, it makes sense if we're going to be able to see the other variables that can be enabled as well.
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gentoo_lan l33t


Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 887 Location: Osan AB, South Korea
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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I like the idea of removing the + signs and adding the USE=. However I don't think it is necessary to show changed use flags in pretend mode they should only be shown in verbose mode. As long as changed use flags have a different color than I don't care if they are in alphabetical order or not. _________________ Registered Linux user# 375038. |
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Bad Penguin Guru


Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 507
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Maedhros wrote: | | I don't like the new-style sorting - I find it easier to find USE flags if they're in strict alphabetical sorting; the colours are enough to differentiate them IMO. I also don't like the fact that enabling or disabling a flag changes its position in the list. I don't like displaying the USE flags without the -v option set either - I can use it when I want to see which USE flags are enabled, but there are times when I just want a list of packages to be installed. WIth some packages, e.g. PHP, there are so many USE flags that it gets in the way of what I want to see sometimes. |
++
Ain't broke, don't fix it  |
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Raftysworld Apprentice


Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 236 Location: Snohomish, WA
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, I like every improvement a bit better than the old style. Good work  _________________ emerge --info
Portage 2.1.4 (default-linux/x86/dev/2007.1, gcc-4.2.2, glibc-2.7-r1, 2.6.24-gentoo i686) |
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loki99 Advocate


Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 2056 Location: Vienna, €urope
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| Genone wrote: |
- changing the sort order from strictly alphabetic to a separation of activated and deactivated flags
- display of new/changed flags even without -v
- removing the + prefix from activated flags
- prefixing the list of USE flags with USE=""
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a) Colours are enough to differentiate plus from minus
b) Good idea!
c) Less cluttering.
d) Don't know why, but I hate it.
And BTW: Thanx for asking!  |
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Marlo Veteran


Joined: 26 Jul 2003 Posts: 1077
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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The new Style is very good and clear, congratulation to the idea.
One needs only habituation time for use and learn-time to read it.
In the doubt I prefer the old style because I got accustomed with this.
Ma _________________ The Indian Shankar Drum Ganesh Machine |
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omp Retired Dev


Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 1018 Location: Los Angeles, California
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| loki99 wrote: | | Colours are enough to differentiate plus from minus |
Not always do you get colors. An example of this is piping emerge through less. _________________ http://omp.am/ - my new domain
http://twitter.com/ompskees - oh noes! twitter  |
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loki99 Advocate


Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 2056 Location: Vienna, €urope
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| omp wrote: |
Not always do you get colors. An example of this is piping emerge through less. |
True! Even though, you'd still have the minus to tell which is which.
But giving it a second thought, seperating them would be fine with me, too.  |
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SirYes Apprentice


Joined: 15 Jan 2006 Posts: 282 Location: Lodz, Poland
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jstubbs Retired Dev


Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 126 Location: Tokyo
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Unwittingly, I have created a poll on pretty much the same topic over at http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-426033.html
My goal is more to get hard numbers specifically on the ordering change though so if you'd like to (re)cast your vote there as well as here I'd be much obliged. |
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AllenJB Veteran


Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1282 Location: Ashford, Kent
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| Genone wrote: | For portage-2.1_pre there is a new output style for showing use flags and other variables. While the display of these additional vars (like LINGUAS or VIDEO_CARDS) is generally accepted some other changes are currently discussed/reconsidered:
- changing the sort order from strictly alphabetic to a separation of activated and deactivated flags
- display of new/changed flags even without -v
- removing the + prefix from activated flags
- prefixing the list of USE flags with USE=""
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1) I prefer alphabetical. Perhaps this could be a switch?
2) No opinion - I always use verbose mode.
3) Like it - less cluttered.
4) Don't like it. More clutter. Also, IMO this could encourage use of `USE="<flags>" emerge <package>`, which is bad, particularly for new users who often don't realise the use flags will only apply once.
Allen _________________ http://gentoo-wiki.com :: http://lug.org.uk :: http://www.linux.org/groups/ :: User Blogs |
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ausmusj1 Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 02 Jan 2004 Posts: 121
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
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I definitely like the new (_pre3) style best - I was a bit surprised when I first saw the output, but I am really loving it. I tend to be a bit of a feature pig - I tend to look more to the disabled list to see if there's any cool or useful functionality that isn't going to be built in that I want - I'm less interested in what I've flagged previously to be enabled.
Another benefit to the new style - if you're on a terminal connection with no color capability, physically separating the enabled from the disabled allows the two groups to be seen more instinctively, once you know what you're looking for.
-James |
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chutz n00b

Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 25 Location: Sapporo
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: Re: emerge -pv output style |
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| Genone wrote: | - changing the sort order from strictly alphabetic to a separation of activated and deactivated flags
- display of new/changed flags even without -v
- removing the + prefix from activated flags
- prefixing the list of USE flags with USE=""
| Voted "mixed", so here is the explanation.
Everything about the new style is better except for the alphabetical sorting part. So,- Hate it
- Don't really care, but it is a nice idea
- Don't really care, but it is a nice idea
- Useful when other variables come in time
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