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How can the MythTV-SVN ebuilds get accepted?
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: How can the MythTV-SVN ebuilds get accepted? Reply with quote

A little discussion on the mythtv mailing list started to get me thinking a bit.

I have always gone to the bugs section and to the MythTV-SVN-Ebuild bug to grab the latest mythtv-svn ebuilds. The guy who generally maintains them apparently isn't supported in his effort for whatever reason, as well as others contributing fixes to the SVN-ebuild.

I understand it's probably something that won't make it's way into the actual portage because it's an SVN ebuild, but I don't see the problem with a cental place where people can easily find the ebuilds (the bug report that has lasted a while I thought was decent enough). So, what's the problem exactly with this being a way to maintain a package that won't get accepted into official portage?

Just curious, I thought Gentoo was a little more about community than other distros, and it would seem that the mythtv-gentoo community would like to have this ebuild easily/readily available to them; so where's the chain getting broke and why?

Thanks for any info! And if anyone has a better way to continually maintain and update an ebuild like that (something easy to find, and easily/equally accessible and always up) would be fine too.

Cool
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that the only reason so far is that nobody has done it :)

Maybe a sourceforge project would be good?

EDIT: Just realized that my reply doesn't make much sense for your question. I think the problem with hosting the ebuilds in the bug database is that it's no longer a bug- so real bugsquashing people get spammed with notices whenever someone changes something.
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adante
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought there were other svn ebuilds in portage. Whatever the case, it would be a real shame if these were not accepted somewhere.

Some people have also told me to stick with the pre8554 ebuild in portage as this should be up to date and contain a working snapshot. Sadly this has a somewhat critical flaw in not being able to schedule recordings, which kind of obviates core myth functionality.

what I'd also like to know is, where exactly are these ebuilds [/b]on bugs.gentoo? I only very recently found out that svn ebuilds were available, which was a real shame. I've tried searching for myth in bugs.gentoo, and it brings up a bunch of tickets but none of them that I see have an svn ebuild.
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I was wrong above- the pre8554 ebuilds are from svn. It's just that Gentoo mirrors are hosting the snapshot of SVN. Ebuilds that pull from the mythtv.org svn server are here:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66337
They probably need a bit of adjustment, I had to edit myth's configure file in the local svn repository to get it to ignore unrecognized build flags. Also the themes ebuild in that pack is particularly broken- the themes that work with SVN are all included with myth now anyways.

Since pre8554 is working that way, I don't see why regular updates would be a problem. I'd guess there's probably a policy in place to keep from hammering the mirrors with updates, but it looks like all that would be needed would be the packing of a tarball and getting it to the mirrors.

EDIT: Ah... make the bugs link above actually work. Sorry, hand typing from Lynx! :D


Last edited by Hobbes-X on Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so too. The SVN-ebuild is basically 'stable' as far as things like that go (a hard mask would even be more acceptable than what we currently have). There are some fixes that need to be applied to the SVN-ebuild, but the 'maintainers' aren't allowed to because the bug wranglers ask them not to (probably from the Spam like you said).

So, is there a Gentoo policy that says no "CVS" ebuilds are allowed in portage? I don't think so. I remember back before Gentoo got the request not to supply an ebuild, one was available for WineX CVS, in the official portage tree.

So why not the Myth SVN ebuild? I guess I'll try to submit one, but I am certain I wouldn't be the first...

Chad
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, I just read the ebuild submission information, and it's been done.

So who do we contact to resolve this I guess is the next question? If the community wants it, why don't we have it in the official portage tree?

Chad
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you check comment number two in the bug database I linked above, live CVS e-builds are not allowed for portage.
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... Just checked the Devel docs and the ebuild polices prefer snapshot ebuilds of cvs, but live cvs ebuilds are supposedly ok. Not sure why the bug filed above was denied because of it, perhaps they are unaware?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real solution would be for MythTV to just release another version, say 0.19. Is there anyway we could convince them to work towards a feature freeze and creating a new version? This would obviously benefit more than just Gentoo, as I think the last release is from like, May 2005?
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.19 has been due to be released 'real soon now' since about early December, but a new method for handling live TV took more time than expected to settle down.

I'd say we're probably going to see a new release around mid to late February.
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian wrote:
The real solution would be for MythTV to just release another version, say 0.19. Is there anyway we could convince them to work towards a feature freeze and creating a new version? This would obviously benefit more than just Gentoo, as I think the last release is from like, May 2005?


I defintely see your point and think that would help (and I too think it will be out within the next 20-30 days). However, I think it's a band-aid solution. Just because 0.19 will be released doesn't mean MythTV development effort will cease. SVN will still exist, and the ebuilds will pull the 0.20 SVN release.

Thanks for the reply!

Chad
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hobbes-X wrote:
Ok... Just checked the Devel docs and the ebuild polices prefer snapshot ebuilds of cvs, but live cvs ebuilds are supposedly ok. Not sure why the bug filed above was denied because of it, perhaps they are unaware?


Would you mind firing over a link? I'll be happy to contact the wranglers, I'm sure they are busy and probably just need a little bit of info to help us out here. If I contact them with that link/info maybe we can get somewhere.

Thanks!

Chad
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the link to the e-build policies, CVS policies being just a bit further down:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=3&chap=1#doc_chap3
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feld
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd-svn is in portage. I've seen others too. I've been longing to see Mythtv SVN builds in portage. No reason why it shouldn't be, as long as the snapshots are tested and stable.




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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
mpd-svn is in portage. I've seen others too. I've been longing to see Mythtv SVN builds in portage. No reason why it shouldn't be, as long as the snapshots are tested and stable.


mythtv-0.19_pre8554 is an svn snapshot, and is currently in portage. Unless I have misunderstood, the goal here is to get a live svn ebuild into portage also.

Since all the MythTV developers run recent svn, even bleeding edge is usually stable for the more common configurations. Provided we respect the requests of upstream (svn users subscribed and reading the mailing list, checking the mailing list archives carefully before reporting bugs, etc.) I don't see why a hard-masked live svn ebuild would cause any problems.
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here' the reply from the bug follow-up:

Quote:
Not going to happen. There will be none of these trashy ebuilds added to the
tree.

In fact I've already added SVN snapshot ebuilds to the tree which I will
support. Not Live CVS/SVN.

I don't care if users want it, a developer has to maintain it then. I'm not
willing to maintain it and no other developer is, so use these ebuilds at your
own risk. There's plenty of problems with them and plenty of users whining on
the list or on IRC. MythTV upstream will refuse to help you with any issues you
have if you use these ebuilds and they will refer you to my ebuilds.

The issue has been argued for over a year now. It's done, finished, and closed.
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...

I think that might mean that if we can get a person who will obligate themselves to maintaining it and apply to be the dev to maintain it, then we can probably get around the people who refuse to do that.

Any volunteers :D

Chad
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malnon
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I think I am missing something here, I have run emerge --syn and then tried to run :-
Accept_Keywords="~x86"emerge --search mythtv

and the latest I can see is 18.rc2, ther is no sign off mythtv-0.19_pre8554 ? I would like to install this but cannot find it, my only route for installing programs so far has been via emerge. Any help will be apreciated.

Mal
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immudium
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@MasterC - Whew, is it a little warm in here or is it just me? :oops: Although it would be convenient, I understand where he's coming from. Myth development can be pretty active/messy at times and I'm sure it would be a huge task to stay up to date. The alternative I fear would be for it to be added to portage, have it break every other week and have the busy developer more or less ignore it. I think the best we could hope for is that somebody would take such an ebuild under their wing and offer it off site like nxsty does with his glibc and xorg overlays, kpex with his multimedia ebuilds, xfce4 with fluidportage and so on. Ideally it could be added to one of the above or somebody that already has the infrastructure, but if not, it might be something I'd be willing to look into. I've written several scripts that install gentoo and mythtv from scratch with no user interaction for easy deployment on new boxes that I would like to share as well so this may be enough incentive for me to allocate the time and resources to at least make a mythtv-svn ebuild more readily available especially if the svn snapshots are few and far between.

@malnon -
Code:

#echo "media-tv/mythtv ~x86" >> /etc/portage/package.keywords
#echo "media-tv/mythtv" >> /etc/portage/package.unmask


Then you should be able to emerge it.


Last edited by immudium on Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:53 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Hobbes-X
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mal,

It looks like emerge --search doesn't take the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS into account. emerge -p mythtv should show the pre8554 version.

However, you really shouldn't use the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~86", it's better to keep unstable packages listed in /etc/portage/package.keywords. That way you don't accidentally update packages to unstable that you never meant to.
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MasterC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

immudium wrote:
@MasterC - Whew, is it a little warm in here or is it just me? :oops: Although it would be convenient, I understand where he's coming from. Myth development can be pretty active/messy at times and I'm sure it would be a huge task to stay up to date. The alternative I fear would be for it to be added to portage, have it break every other week and have the busy developer more or less ignore it. I think the best we could hope for is that somebody would take such an ebuild under their wing and offer it off site like nxsty does with his glibc and xorg overlays, kpex with his multimedia ebuilds, xfce4 with fluidportage and so on. Ideally it could be added to one of the above or somebody that already has the infrastructure, but if not, it might be something I'd be willing to look into. I've written several scripts that install gentoo and mythtv from scratch with no user interaction for easy deployment on new boxes that I would like to share as well so this may be enough incentive for me to allocate the time and resources to at least make a mythtv-svn ebuild more readily available especially if the svn snapshots are few and far between.


:D I get a little frustrated sometimes when it seems developers have their own agenda instead of what's best for the community they choose to dev for. I got a bit of perspective from one the Gentoo myth devs and actually sort of understand why they are doing it with the snapshots instead of live (whether I agree or not is not my point, but at least I have some understanding now). I like the idea of them (them being Live ebuilds not snapshots) being in official portage because I see more active development done on them than if they are on some obscure site; however, there could be some common ground with that. The SVN-snapshots provided to us through the official portage tree are for those **users** who want bleeding edge features and are prepared to deal with some oddities. The Live-ebuilds are for those **developers** who want an easy way to maintain an updated copy of mythtv on their gentoo system and are prepared for (and probably welcome) broken systems. So having an alternate location provide those ebuilds and overlays is probably good since it would be a developer who is interested, not your 'common' myth/gentoo user.

So... after getting some idea of the reasons behind dis-allowing the SVN ebuilds I'm happy to let this thread die after we can figure out where a good reliable place is for the Live-SVN ebuilds to be maintained. After all, there is a good alternative (close) solution provided by an active gentoo/mythtv maintainer in official portage (the tested SVN ebuilds).

Chad
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malnon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much guys, job done! now I just have to wrestle with mythweb forbiden message. Time for some forum hunting :)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterC wrote:
:D I get a little frustrated sometimes when it seems developers have their own agenda instead of what's best for the community they choose to dev for. I got a bit of perspective from one the Gentoo myth devs and actually sort of understand why they are doing it with the snapshots instead of live (whether I agree or not is not my point, but at least I have some understanding now). I like the idea of them (them being Live ebuilds not snapshots) being in official portage because I see more active development done on them than if they are on some obscure site; however, there could be some common ground with that. The SVN-snapshots provided to us through the official portage tree are for those **users** who want bleeding edge features and are prepared to deal with some oddities. The Live-ebuilds are for those **developers** who want an easy way to maintain an updated copy of mythtv on their gentoo system and are prepared for (and probably welcome) broken systems.


Now, if mythtv was maintained with subreleases like 19.1 or something instead of keeping a fixes branch until the next major release I could see that, but they only release broken major releases with bugs that cause you not to work unless you update to whatever the current fixes are. So, an svn ebuild makes the most sense if you want a working myth box.
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