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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:53 pm    Post subject: Old laptop => websurfing Reply with quote

i've an old laptop
pentium mmx 150 Mhz
16 MB ram
800x600
2 GB hdd
and i want to use it for websurfing

i've posted here because the 16 MB seens not enough to have a normal desktop gentooo system

-is firefox possible
-is Xorg possible

or i have to use others things such as NanoGui(microwindows) or specia xorg... that are normaly used in the embled world

or should i use opie or gentoo-zarus
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Old laptop => websurfing Reply with quote

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
i've an old laptop
pentium mmx 150 Mhz
16 MB ram
800x600
2 GB hdd
and i want to use it for websurfing
i've posted here because the 16 MB seens not enough to have a normal desktop gentooo system
-is firefox possible
-is Xorg possible

I think that you should worry more about the hd space. Since you have a so small memory amount you will need at least 256 swap space to use firefox. You should look into something lighter. In terms of memory usage, all the gecko based engines, like mozilla, firefox, kazahakase, epiphany, galeon, etc. are really HEAVY. So, they are definitely a no-go for this laptop. Options are these:

- Opera, still very heavy in memory consumption, but less than gecko. Anyway, I would not use it either in that machine.
- links -g, very light, probably your best bet, the downside is that it supports javascript but not java, neither css. You should look into it, if you need a heavier browser, you can still use it when you don't need those extra features.
- konqueror (yes, I'm not crazy). Oppositte of what many prople think konqueror can be installed without kde. If you rip off the kio-slaves you will get a very small browser, anyway, even if you use them, the memory consumption of konqueror is much smaller than those of gecko and opera (around 20mb with kioslaves running, while gecko engine takes up to 27-33 mb + the weight of the program, so it can easily take up to 50 mb in a couple of minutes of websurfing).
- dillo, I don't recommend it, if you want something light use links -g instead.

Using one of these you will need a lot less memory and you can use a smaller swap partition (I think 64mb would be ok). I would also recommend you to chose a light window manager (there are lots in portage, most people like flux/openbox, e16 and fvwm -this is my choice: fvwm-, if you want to try fvwm I can provide you with links to premade configs, and a download link for mine also ;) ).

I recommend you to unmask and use the modular xorg-7.0 release, that will save you a fair amount of ram also, and disable all the modules that you dont need in xorg.conf, for example, you can disable some of these:
Code:


Section "Module"

        Load            "record"
        Load            "extmod"
        Load            "dbe"
        #Load            "glx"
        #Load           "xtrap"
        Load            "freetype"
        #Load            "type1"

EndSection

You will probably dont need glx, aditionally, you can get rid of one between freetype and type1 (you can go with just one of the two font engines). xtrap is nothing usefull (I never missed it, at least).
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Reikinio
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, dont have much info for you except go for it! :)

If I were you, I'd choose a distro like this one for example: http://jailbait.sourceforge.net/(google around and you will find many)

X will work, but choose a proper WM(I'd use screen)

Firefox is a resource hore, it will suck so much memory that your system would become unusable,
for example, right now firefox is using 82MB(%16.75) out of 490MB(for the record I have 15 tabs open).
So, imho, you're better of using elinks or the like.

Good luck, let us know how it went.
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

links -g is a very good browser but... (links is incredibly fast) is there any light one that can view images such as jpeg (no aa)
by the way... is there some unofficial stage3 for pentium1???
i've not seen them on the mirrors
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karatefish
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
links -g is a very good browser but... (links is incredibly fast) is there any light one that can view images such as jpeg (no aa)
by the way... is there some unofficial stage3 for pentium1???
i've not seen them on the mirrors


Maybe I misunderstood your question, but you can build links with jpeg support by setting the USE flag. Details here. If I've misunderstood and you were after an alternative, I've never tried other light graphical browsers. Sorry.

As for the stage3 for a pentium1, the Jackass Project has stage3s for Pentium1 built with gcc 3.4.4
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatefish wrote:
new_to_non_X86 wrote:
links -g is a very good browser but... (links is incredibly fast) is there any light one that can view images such as jpeg (no aa)
by the way... is there some unofficial stage3 for pentium1???
i've not seen them on the mirrors


Maybe I misunderstood your question, but you can build links with jpeg support by setting the USE flag. Details here. If I've misunderstood and you were after an alternative, I've never tried other light graphical browsers. Sorry.

As for the stage3 for a pentium1, the Jackass Project has stage3s for Pentium1 built with gcc 3.4.4

the wm is not a problem...
even if i have no wm it would be ok...
the one shiped with X is more than suficient even if it led to some bugs...
on my main computer (piii700) i have tryed firefox under the wm of X... (while compiling kde)
close an instance of firefox and you close all the instance...
but it is usable

jakass WAS a great project...unfortunately they have abandoned suport for old architectures due to the lack of people using them...
so they removed them from their mirrors...
fining such tarball will be very difficult...


Last edited by GNUtoo on Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bjd
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a laptop of slightly worse specs than yours, and have been trying something similar. I recompiled an x86 Stage3 for the P1 on my desktop system, only took a couple of hours. Copied it over to the laptop drive, omitting the portage tree and all source files. Only takes up 330Mb :)
I use lynx as the browser and have a couple of other command line apps on there. I don't think it can handle X, I tried it when I had DamnSmall Linux on there and couldn't get it working. I do plan to get links2 working via the framebuffer, but can't get the framebuffer working yet (old chips&tech chipset).
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e-ipi
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A light gentoo system is probably ok as long as you don't mind some long compile times. That said, gentoo probably wouldn't be my first choice for a project like yours.

As for light web-browsers, don't forget lynx and w3m. (The vi keys option on lynx are a big plus in my opinion.)
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bjd wrote:
I have a laptop of slightly worse specs than yours, and have been trying something similar. I recompiled an x86 Stage3 for the P1 on my desktop system, only took a couple of hours. Copied it over to the laptop drive, omitting the portage tree and all source files. Only takes up 330Mb :)
I use lynx as the browser and have a couple of other command line apps on there. I don't think it can handle X, I tried it when I had DamnSmall Linux on there and couldn't get it working. I do plan to get links2 working via the framebuffer, but can't get the framebuffer working yet (old chips&tech chipset).

i run X once in knoppix
too slow but as you know knoppix uses a lor of RAM (i've got only 16)
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does someone knows where theses pentium-mmx build can be found?
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mabe i can avoid Xorg doing things as gensplash or *splash
mabe i can run links -g into the frambuffer console!!!
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course you can. You might just use one of DirectFB or svgalib drivers. Check the links man page for links. Usually svgalib is easier to set up, but it might highly depend on your config...

Svgalib needs a kernel module helper to work, while directfb does not, otherwise, both methods allow you to do what you want.
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davidgurvich
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try Damn Small Linux, according to the web site under 50MB HD space and 16MB ram.
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the gentoo 2005.1 LiveCD running on a Tecra720 pentium-mmx 133MHz w/ 144mb of ram. I was surprised it ran. (The Tecra runs win98 fine and it will also run winxp pro but very slowly.) Booted the LiveCD with smartboot (can't remember it's name). It will also run Damn Small Linux. Took awhile to get an xorg.conf for the ct65550 'chips' that ran at 1024x768. It takes about 4 minutes to boot the LiveCD. Going to try a hd install - I've got a 6GB drive in there, that so far doesn't do dma.

JohnY

You might try LTSP

(I'm looking for something light enough to run on a Thinkpad 500 50Mhz 486SL with 12 mb of ram and a 800mb drive... )
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

with 144 MB of ram it's normal...lol
in linux slow processor aren't an issue but ram yes(you can use swap but if the dd is slow i guess it will have some horible speed)
but thanks

Quote:
I'm looking for something light enough to run on a Thinkpad 500 50Mhz 486SL with 12 mb of ram and a 800mb drive...

in order to run what???
that's the problem with theses old system
-what programs or kind of programs do you want to run
-do you need gentoo
-do you need linux(minix with nano-X lol)

now the person with the laptop doesn't want linux anymore
he's fine with win95(use it for running a windows music program and doesn't want to do websurfing anymore with it)
it would have been great installing linux and links -g on it

1)try to compile from another x86 computer!!!
you have too little ram/disk space for it (redhatter remind me this issue when i wanted to run gentoo on an embedded device)
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