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georgen
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Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: 64-bit Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

I am brand new to Gentoo!, though, I have been around linux for a long time now. I have a few Ultra5's laying around and I thought i'd try to install sparc64 version of gentoo on them. Please tell me if I am missing something stupid here, I have downloaded 'install-sparc64-minimal-2005.1.iso' and when I boot from it ... all of the progs/libs seem to have been compiled 32-bit!? What is it I have to do to get everything compiled 64 bit?

TIA,
George.

i.e.
livecd bin # pwd
/bin
livecd bin # file * | more
arch: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, SPARC32PLUS, V8+ Required, version 1 (
SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
awk: symbolic link to `gawk-3.1.3'
basename: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, SPARC32PLUS, V8+ Required, version 1 (
SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
bash: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, SPARC32PLUS, V8+ Required, version 1 (
SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
bashlogin: Bourne-Again shell script text executable
bb: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, SPARC32PLUS, V8+ Required, Sun UltraSP
ARC1 Extensions Required, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, statically link
ed, stripped
bunzip2: symbolic link to `bzip2'
busybox: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, SPARC32PLUS, V8+ Required, version 1 (
SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
bzcat: symbolic link to `bzip2'
bzcmp: symbolic link to `bzdiff'
bzdiff: Bourne shell script text executable
bzegrep: symbolic link to `bzgrep'
bzfgrep: symbolic link to `bzgrep'
bzgrep: Bourne shell script text executable
bzip2: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, SPARC32PLUS, V8+ Required, version 1 (
SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
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georgen
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Joined: 03 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:21 am    Post subject: 64-bit, searching the FAQ further ... Reply with quote

Ok, http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-321947-highlight-sparc64.html tells me this is not supported (yet?). Now, I am curious as to why a distinction is made between sparc32/sparc64?

Thanks,
George.
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Ferris
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 426
Location: N. Virginia (USA)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are different sparc architectures. Sparc32 refers to systems line SS5, SS20 (sun4m), which are sparcv8. Sparc64 systems are U1, U2, U5, ..., etc. (sun4u), and are untrasparc/untrasparc3 (sun4u, sparcv9), and their instruction set is a (proper) superset of sparcv8. Thus, programs compiled for v8 will run on v9 (with a performance penalty), but the converse is not true. (If you are running Gentoo, "cat /proc/cpuinfo" will show you what you have.)

The sparc64 (v9 systems, like your U5) are hardware-capable of supporting 64-bit user binaries, but Gentoo (and other sparc Linux distributions, I believe) do not; at least, not by default. Unless you really need 64-bit addressing for some application, you incur an unnecessary performance penalty if you force it.

That said, if you really need 64-bit user mode on your system, it can be done with some effort, but I don't have details at hand. Search the forum here for information, or ask on the #gentoo-sparc freenode IRC channel.

Hopt this helps clarify things a bit,
Regards,
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georgen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferris,

Thanks for being kind to me :) I actually have a first generation SPARC a sun4 4/380 (ELC), a handful of U5 and U1's plus a few 8-way/2GB E1000 (heaters) connected to a couple of SSA's in my basement (when I want to dim the lights i'll turn those on). Unfortunately no Sparc Stations in the collection yet.

Anyway, I don't really have a _need_ to do 64 bit computing on my U5 (if I did, i'd just load slowaris on it) ... I was just (still am?) confuzzled by downloading a the sparc64 install iso and getting 32-bit V8+ compiled progs and a V9 64-bit kernel. Simply put, It just doesn't make any dang sense to me.

I am also stuck on the mentioned performance penalty? In another post (http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-321947-highlight-.html) it was stated that V8 compiled progs would be faster than V9 compiled progs in the general case on a V9 arch. However, you are stating that a v8 compiled program will run (with a performance penalty) on a V9 arch machine. Maybe I have lost my mind! Is the bottom line that the linux kernel doesn't support the v9 arch?

All of this nonsense, is just fun for me to learn and play around with Gentoo!. Just trying to understand, maybe I just need another dew and some more reading!

Thanks,
George.
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Ferris
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 426
Location: N. Virginia (USA)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


  • Kernel is 64-bit because it has to be.
  • 32-bit V8+ is v9 (or ultrasparc).
  • On U5, you want to compile with -mcpu=ultrasparc (somewhat better code that -mcpu=v9; v9==general sparc-v9 standard; ultrasparc==v9 standard, specifically, sun's ultrasparc implementation of v9: compiler can assume sun-specific optimizations, and the code it generates for cpu=ultrasparc is not the same as for cpu=v9 (I have verified this.)).
  • On a system like U5, -mcpu=ultrasparc should generate 32-bit code for the v9 standard, and should "always" be better than -v8. That parallel thread is talking about 64-bit userland, which will be slower, in general.


Hope this helps,
Ferris
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