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Lockup
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 4:26 pm    Post subject: college Reply with quote

here in quebec, the college im in basically bans you if you fail more than X classes...and it turns out im most likely gonna fail that number X...
im in comp sci at the mo, and the only classes i failed are basic mandatory ones that everyone has, esp french,philosophy and shit like that, which isnt computer-related (got over 85% in all pc-related stuff)

which brings me to wonder...
are there colleges that give pc classes, like programming, stuff like that but that doesnt have those shitty french/philo etc classes?
hell im even willing to move for it...
basically what i wanna do is either network security(i dont know much about that, but it looks interesting, and...well....colleges and uni are meant to teach you stuff right?;)
or just basic programming

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..
worst case ill just grab my guitar and play on streets corners, though it might scare people more than anything *strokes warlock*
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lemming
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't take this the wrong way, you might not fall under the following catagory. :)

I think there are colleges that do that, but they turn out IMO, people that are not very rounded. In real life, your social skills can be just as important as your technical skills.

Even though I wound up being booted from college for pretty much the same reasons you may be, I had put in four years of learning how to be a person as opposed to a one dimensional techie.

I also learned more stuff in the non-computer classes than I ever did in the computer classes. (Except for some of algorithms, I don't use much of what I learned in my 1981-86 timeframe...) Everything else was learned on my own or by a mentor at work.
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while(1)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

College/Uni is suposed to teach you more than just a limited set of skills (i.e. network security/programming) which will become outdated in a few years anyway.

You are suposed to learn about other people, how to work with other and the fact that there is more the the world than computers (and yes, I have a CS degree).

I think the 2 hardest classes I took were Compiler Design (had to write a Java compiler in C) and Shakespeare's Complete Works .. go figure!

So even if French seem like a waste of time - it will most certainly come in handy later on.
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!k
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: college Reply with quote

Lockup wrote:
are there colleges that give pc classes, like programming, stuff like that but that doesnt have those shitty french/philo etc classes?


Well... I know I'm going to sound like your grandmother telling you that lima beans are good for you. But that stuff isn't shitty, and if you think it is its my belief that you it would be good for you to be exposed to it.

I think you would be a better programmer after exposure to art, music, history and philosophy.

If nothing else, intelligent sexy women will be impressed if you can quote Rilke, cook something involving a truffle, order wine and above all have the necessary background information to listen and be interested in what she has to say.

I don't think I'll be able to change your mind. But for what its worth, I'd advise you to quit college. No one takes time off, you are either enrolled or not enrolled.

Travel, live and maybe work. Perhaps in a while you'll approach college differently.

None of the programming stuff I learned in college is useful to me know - the technical stuff is outdated or could have been gleaned from countless books or web resources. However the communication and other life skills are invaluable.


good luck

k
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Lockup
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thing is, ive already been "exposed" to art music etc etc and i already know what i like and what i dont, and i simply am unable to put work into something im not interested in (esp the philosphy classes or french litterature classes we get...hell, i like french litterature, but not the parts they show us)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya... I nearly failed out of undergrad, then after 2 years of working went back and got my masters.

Its all about jumping through hoops. You don't need it to be a good programmer, but it opens so many doors. Its hard to get someone to look at your resume with out that diploma. shitty? yeah... but I do it too... its a way to cut down on resumes to read through.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and i simply am unable to put work into something im not interested in


Tell that to your future boss and let me know how it goes.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many "Tech" schools offer/require fewer courses outside your major, but as has already been observed, the courseload required at a liberal arts college generally results in more rounded graduates. If you just really can't stand any of the other courses, look for a true tech school; you will not get as rounded and complete an education, but that is the choice you make. Good luck!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know of one liberal arts college and one Ivy League university that have no distribution requirements: if you take the required number of courses and fulflil the requirements of your major, you can graduate. Those schools claimed to be unique in that respect, but I'd be surprised if there weren't other schools out there with similar (lacks of) curricula.

I agree with the previous posts though; think about being more well-rounded, because it's good, but if you really can't stand those subjects, then transfer out or quit school altogether.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess is works all the same everywhere. But you don't have to expatriate yourself to find a college that will teach strictly computer science. There is Collège Marsan, Delta College, Collège CDI that teach you only PC stuff. The draw back is that they are very expensive and their diploma is not as much recognise as regular colleges ones. Worst, I think they also will impose some minimal success without being "thrown out".

I understand the feeling. I have French courses and accounting also, two courses I dispite very much because I don't have any interrests in those. But it's like everything in life, in whatever you do, there is always something less enjoyable things to task on. All in all, I think regular college and University does very well in sorting out talents in learning. In computer sciences, a domain that now touch everything, it is simply neccessary to give some basic general knowledges in other fields. It simply gives good preparation. I understand that, so I go along with it.

I even have some programming courses that impose the Ada language. Ever heard of it? I did not. It's a very hard language because it is strongly type (it does not even auto cast between reals and integers... very typed). So I did cursed a lot at first because I had a hard time simply getting my programs to compile on it, but with time, I have found that learning Ada did gave me a good insight to those kind of languages and it made me be a better programmer in other languages because it made me be carefull in how I declare my constructs. WHen you get back to a loss language like PHP, it's like "oh my god this language accept anything at all".

All, this to say, yes you have to go thruue things you don't like, but youu must take it as a challenge that will bring you good instead of taking it as a burden to overcome. May sound patronising, but it is my belief.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In NZ we have the option of studying via varsity or a tech ...varsity courses generally have the added bloat ...however tech courses are much more job orientated ....ie I completed a interior/spacial design course and subjects ranged from art/design history to architectural stuff furnishing etc so while varied, ALL subjects related to the course ....I always had the idea people skills came from practicle experience not theory :roll: but maybe im wrong ....

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is little OT but since we've already started a college disscussion here, I see no reason to start another one and ask what I want to ask for...

Are there any cool colleges in California with classes like programming, Unix and stuff?? Maybe something else like phiolsophy too....But not neccessary. Most important is programming.
Wuddya say??

Cheers,
Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, i think that if they teach you french philosophy it's because to understand it you need to have a "logical" way of thinking, which is also needed for studying informatik.

If you fail understanding philosophy, you may fail understanding some informatik things that require the same kind of understanding.

I understand it can be boring though, but it's worth giving it a hard work, philosophy is not so shitty just cause of what i said, it all depends in logical. It's not a hasard if most greek philosophs ( and some french ones ) also had relationship with mathematics :)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qnx wrote:
Are there any cool colleges in California with classes like programming, Unix and stuff?? Maybe something else like phiolsophy too....But not neccessary. Most important is programming.
Wuddya say??

There are probably at least a hundred colleges in California that would fit that description. The only qualification that they mat not meet is the highly subjective 'cool' factor.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah...you're right... "Cool" isn't the best description. Actually I don't know what I meant...Sorry :oops:
But one more thing...Is it easy to get a job and a place to live, when you're studing there??
Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come to Denmark at study engineering at my school - it's all coding and minimal amount of shit. :)

Seriously, I currently have:

CPU Design Class, which is mostly Realmode x86 asm programming

Embedded systems Class, mostly a crossover class, programming for embedded kernel system called RTKernel, involves threaded C++

C++ Class.. selfexplanitory.

Semester Project Class, mostly UML and then combining all the other classes into a greater project

DSP class, math... it's the class I hate the most, it's hard and I can't really see the point yet.. I will next semester though, because then the semester project is to make some MP3 like stuff from scratch... which I hope will be cool.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. Sounds cool (especially the MP3-alike-project)! The thing is: I can study it here in Sweden too, it's just that I want to go to California.....I'm tired of all damn weather and stupied bimbos here....Probably it's easier to get a job there too, though I'm not sure.
And ohh! I'd like to practicate my english a bit, that's why I wanna go to US.
Cheers!
Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I did to get trough some shit subjects was write about a computer related subject that in some obscure way met the critirea of the work. :D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: college Reply with quote

Lockup wrote:

im in comp sci at the mo, and the only classes i failed are basic mandatory ones that everyone has, esp french,philosophy and shit like that, which isnt computer-related (got over 85% in all pc-related stuff)


Here, at my University we also have some bullshit like this ... I have
a) portuguese (even before 10 years studying it)
b) local history (it's interesting, but I think it's a waste of time ... especially when I think that I could be studying about compilers or OSs).

while(1) wrote:

College/Uni is suposed to teach you more than just a limited set of skills (i.e. network security/programming) which will become outdated in a few years anyway.


I agree with you, but they should select some more interesting classes ... I really won't use local history in a tech related job ...


8)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a CS major in college but I'm taking all the shit classes because it's my freshman year. I HATE it! I feel your pain. I don't want to take stupid things like English, U.S. History, State and Local Government. I'm just saying WTF?

But...

Like everyone has said, if I graduate from a college rather than a technical school I can have the possiblity to go into other areas if I choose and I can have a degree that is recognized and backed by a university.
So, yes. There are colleges and schools that will give you training and teaching in specific things like programming and network security. There are also certifications. I heard of a guy who was offered a job to be paid $90,000/yr with only a High School Diploma just because he was Cisco certified. With that you just have to wonder if it's going to be there all the time and you also have to keep in mind how you have to keep updated on all the certs. Also, they won't be backed like a college degree is. It basically comes down to your personal preference and how you want to lead your career.
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