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| What do you think? |
| 0mg!1 the hell freezed over!1 |
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23% |
[ 72 ] |
| I don't give a f^Wdime |
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35% |
[ 108 ] |
| th1s is teh end of teh w0rld!11 |
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14% |
[ 44 ] |
| i don't have an opinion on that |
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19% |
[ 60 ] |
| i won' tell ya |
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| Total Votes : 307 |
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plbe
l33t
Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 661
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 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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MS may be ahead in terms of userbase now but give linux some more time, linux has come along way even since I started using it back in 1999 and the userbase is just getting bigger and bigger and opensource projects are starting to become more mainstream...firefox for example. Anyway best of luck to drobbins, I'm not mad at him. Hes contributed a lot to the opensource community and if MS can feed his family and get him out of debt so be it. I mean cmon losing 1 person isn't going to kill the open source community  |
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fstephens
n00b
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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While I can appreciate his need to pay off debts and make a living, that's his personal dilemma.
BUT, for the rest of us to pretend it's not a bad thing for OSS, I think is naive.
Microsoft is not just another company or competitor-they are a convicted monopolist whose predatory practices are legendary (and well documented). You can bet they are NOT interested in cooperation, standards compliance, interoperability or anything else that would benefit technology users at large. Only ego, greed and more billions are motivations.
Ethical companies compete with innovations, price, reputation (well, I see why M$ can't do that), service, etc. Not strong-arm tactics, leveraging monopoly power, vaporware & FUD.
I fear they will only use Daniel Robbins and anyone else in the OSS community that cooperates with them to learn how to more effectively combat the rise of OSS. There has been talk for a while that Microsoft is preparing a patent assault on Linux. Maybe short of co-opting Linus himself (God forbid!) to oversee that attack, Daniel is seen as the next best general. I hope not.
I also don't like the cozying up to Microsoft that Red Hat seems to be willing to do (Not to mention Sun!). It's one thing to try to come to an accommodation with a normal person, but if that person's demonstrated goal is to kill you, maybe it's best to just keep your distance.
And no, I WON'T give Microsoft the "benefit of the doubt" (there is no doubt), or a chance to "prove themselves" (they've done that for years-proved their lying, deceitfulness and treachery). I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw Balmer (though I would like to try that if there were a convenient cliff nearby  )
As for the effect on Gentoo, I hope it will be minimal, but only Daniel Robbins knows how he may help Microsoft. Then again, maybe he is going to be a spy in the enemy camp!
Thank you Daniel, for Gentoo. |
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plbe
l33t
Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Microsoft is fighting a losing battle, they can't and won't win. Sure they may get away with some stupid stuff every now and then but they won't be able to take down linux |
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Arainach
l33t
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 609
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Daniel put in a lot of time and work helping OSS; it's good that he's actually making money and doing a job that he (presumably) enjoys. Good for him.
_________________
Gentoo: Stage3 w/ NPTL & udev, gcc 3.4.4 full rebuild
Kernel: 2.6.15-gentoo-r1 w/ 1G-Lowmem Patch
System: Athlon XP 2.2Ghz/1GB Corsair Value/160GB, 250GB WD IDE/128MB GeForce 6800/Sony 17" Trinitron G200 @ 1280x1024x75Hz |
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pinr
Apprentice
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 241
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Arainach wrote: | | Daniel put in a lot of time and work helping OSS; it's good that he's actually making money and doing a job that he (presumably) enjoys. Good for him. |
Hear Hear! and Bill Gates too |
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coriolan
Apprentice
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Have you considered the possibility that instead of Robbins betraying Linux he is actually infiltrating the enemy camp as a double agent?  |
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| coriolan wrote: | | Have you considered the possibility that instead of Robbins betraying Linux he is actually infiltrating the enemy camp as a double agent? |
Have you considered the possibility that perhaps he just wants to feed and care for his family and get rid of his rather large debt? I'm an idealistic foolhardy individual who despises MS as much as some others on this forum (likely moreso) but is it really so wrong for him to seek employment hacking on software and getting paid a lot of money to do things he likes doing? Granted, if I was in his situation I would probably look to a more F/OSS-friendly company (such as RedHat, IBM, or Novell) but it was his decision to make and he did what he thought appropriate.
Daniel Robbins, thank you for your excellent contributions to the F/OSS community and thank you for all that you have done. I, for one, wish you the best in whatever life may bring your way. So long, and thanks for all the fish. We'll miss you. 
--Peter
_________________
~~ Peter: Brony, GNU/Linux geek, caffeine addict, and Free Software advocate.
Who am I? :: EFF & FSF |
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coriolan
Apprentice
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| codergeek42 wrote: | | coriolan wrote: | | Have you considered the possibility that instead of Robbins betraying Linux he is actually infiltrating the enemy camp as a double agent? |
Have you considered the possibility that perhaps he just wants to feed and care for his family and get rid of his rather large debt? |
Yes, I have. Nothing wrong with that.
| codergeek42 wrote: | I'm an idealistic foolhardy individual who despises MS as much as some others on this forum (likely moreso) but is it really so wrong for him to seek employment hacking on software and getting paid a lot of money to do things he likes doing? Granted, if I was in his situation I would probably look to a more F/OSS-friendly company (such as RedHat, IBM, or Novell) but it was his decision to make and he did what he thought appropriate.
Daniel Robbins, thank you for your excellent contributions to the F/OSS community and thank you for all that you have done. I, for one, wish you the best in whatever life may bring your way. So long, and thanks for all the fish. We'll miss you.
--Peter |
I agree. I wish Robbins all well. Although I would not work for M$ myself -not that they would hire me anyway The problem with M$ is not that they are capitalist bastards (I am one myself, or so I am told), but that they want to own something that cannot be owned: ideas. |
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xming
Guru
Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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OMG, well everyone has a price. Besides it's a free world, Gentoo and Linux are about freedom and choices. Still ...
| Code: |
emerge unmerge drobbins
--- Couldn't find drobbins to unmerge.
>>> unmerge: No packages selected for removal.
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hmm
Thanks for bringing us Gentoo
xming
_________________
http://wojia.be |
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coriolan
Apprentice
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I just made a donation of 20$ to Gentoo Foundation in honor of Robbins departure. Follow my example! |
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djm
Arch/Herd Tester
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Wadham College, Oxford
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| coriolan wrote: | | I just made a donation of 20$ to Gentoo Foundation in honor of Robbins departure. Follow my example! |
drobbins left Gentoo well over a year ago, you know. (also, I hope you didn't use store.gentoo.org to donate, since that money goes straight to drobbins)
I'm pretty sure that a current gentoo dev (krispykringle) will be working for MS this summer, which should be much more interesting to the conspiracy theorists amongst you
_________________
the forums.gentoo.org poster formally known as metal leper |
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coriolan
Apprentice
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| djm wrote: | | drobbins left Gentoo well over a year ago, you know. (also, I hope you didn't use store.gentoo.org to donate, since that money goes straight to drobbins) |
I know, and no, that went to Gentoo Foundation, it says so in the receipt. |
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bfkeats
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| John5788 wrote: |
i hear prostituion and pr0n makes good money these days  . better than working at MS. |
Talk like that just makes us all look silly. There's a place for Microsoft software just like there's a place for linux. |
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myuser
Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Set up and maintain an open source distribution - $40,000 in debt
Working for Microsoft - 1 Soul
Getting up one day and realising you live in a free market economy - priceless
For everything else there are painkillers |
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Tun
n00b
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Stockport, England
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kalisphoenix wrote: | | Tun wrote: | | In other news they've also removed the word gullable from the dictionary |
It was never in the dictionary. Perhaps you mean "gullible." |
Haha. I'm a stupid f**k sometimes.
I give up |
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kalisphoenix
Apprentice
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| aja wrote: | | I think you need to loosen the tinfoil hat a bit. While I decry (and encourage others to work against) what's happening to "IP" law in the US and elsewhere, it's by no means a lost battle. It's not so much what you Americans do to each other that bothers me - it's your annoying habit of trying to export your wacky culture to other places. |
Gah! I hate being mistaken for my country's policies. I'd attack you based on your country's policies, but I seem to agree with a lot of them.
| Quote: | | However, even the most fevered dreams of Republican lawmakers is nowhere near the kind of police state you're describing. MS does not own everything that its employees lay their hands on. It doesn't own _anything_ they do in their spare time. The worst case would be that drobbins contributes code that is arguably copyrighted by MS. (Something I can't imagine him doing). The result of that wouldn't be late-night gestapo raids. It would be a letter from a lawyer followed by removal or rewrite of the offending code. |
I'm curious about this, but I'm not a coder and never have been. It was my understanding that if Dan creates Program X while working for Microsoft, it's technically theirs whether he did it on company time or not. Much like how, if I were a nuclear power plant operator working for the US Navy again, any plans I created for the construction or operation of a nuclear power plant would be looked at askance by said Navy, especially if I tried to sell them to foreigners. Not saying these situations are the same, because they're definitely not, but that was the impression I was under. Anyone else want to confirm or deny this delusion of mine?
| Quote: | | And the US is quite noticeably having a great deal of trouble getting international organizations (like interpol), especially in Europe, to do their bidding. |
*turns on News*
*sees Iraq*
*turns off News*
| Tun wrote: |
Haha. I'm a stupid f**k sometimes.
I give up |
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Lepaca Kliffoth
l33t
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 737
Location: Florence, Italy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mciann wrote: | | If Daniel Robbins, or any other high level Gentoo devs who may currently be in negotiations with Microsoft about a similar employment agreement, ever take any action which could, even in the most obtuse interpretation, be construed as contributing to the project in any way, Microsoft WILL own Gentoo Linux. They will have Interpol seize any assets such as servers, etc. that are in Germany or elsewhere in Europe, and they will force US distribution mirrors to remove the files from their servers. |
Yes, the famous "let's snatch this guy from that foundation and hope he contributes code after signing this paper so we can own that foundation" technique. It doesn't work like that, not even in the big bad evil sadistic US.
_________________
It isn't enough to win - everyone else must lose, and you also have to rub it in their face (maybe chop off an arm too for good measure).
Animebox! |
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destuxor
l33t
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 803
Location: Honolulu, HI, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Beware, Xenix 2.3.5 is on it's way! |
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aja
l33t
Joined: 26 Aug 2002
Posts: 705
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| kalisphoenix wrote: |
Gah! I hate being mistaken for my country's policies. I'd attack you based on your country's policies, but I seem to agree with a lot of them.
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Well, you folks claim to be a democracy and keep re-electing the people who make the policies, so I'm not willing to let the American people off the hook. However, I didn't mean to generalize against you in particular. I am sure there are _some_ Americans who aren't sociopathic infants with nuclear weapons. Besides, it's OT, and I'll try to keep my jealous neighbor impression down to a dull roar.
| Quote: |
It was my understanding that if Dan creates Program X while working for Microsoft, it's technically theirs whether he did it on company time or not. Much like how, if I were a nuclear power plant operator working for the US Navy again, any plans I created for the construction or operation of a nuclear power plant would be looked at askance by said Navy, especially if I tried to sell them to foreigners. |
There's a bit of confusion in that statement between patentable engineering designs and copyrightable code, but that law is in flux in a variety of places (I'll assert that in most jurisdictions, its entirely different laws that would apply between power plants and software). But let's assume that they are comparable. MS would, indeed, have a reasonable concern if one of its employees were working on XML installers and then contributed an XML parser to OSS. And that employee should be concerned in such a case and get permission from the company for the contribution. But if said employee contributes, say, a patch to the mplayer ebuild, which is significantly unrelated to the work at the company, there is no issue.
Companies only have a claim against employee's code if (1) the code was created on company time or using company resources or (2) the code is a derivative work of code created under (1). It is definitely not the case that all code created by that person is owned by the company, no matter what or when it is created - it only becomes twitchy when you start mixing paid work with OSS work, or start misusing corporate resources.
To return to your analogy - it's more like a case of whether the Navy can get upset if you helped a neighbor make their boat's gas engine more efficient - which they likely can't.
And, lets add that IANAL, so I could be wrong - but I've worked for a few development firms that were pretty serious about IP issues. |
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ixion
l33t
Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| plbe wrote: | | Reminds me of the movie antitrust |
You nailed it.. I think that's exactly what's going on... 
_________________
only the paranoid survive |
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mciann
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| aja wrote: |
However, even the most fevered dreams of Republican lawmakers is nowhere near the kind of police state you're describing. MS does not own everything that its employees lay their hands on.
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Have you ever actually seen an IP employment agreement?
| Quote: |
And the US is quite noticeably having a great deal of trouble getting international organizations (like interpol), especially in Europe, to do their bidding.
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Really? Tell that to Indymedia:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/actions/2004/fbi/
| Quote: | | They may be serious about it, but they've been attacking OSS for a good chunk of a decade and it's just getting bigger. I think you overestimate them and underestimate us. |
This has gone beyond rigged benchmarks and paid media shills. In the past few years, it has become about suing Linux users for using an unlicensed copy of Unix. Ever heard of SCO?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO-Linux_controversies#Microsoft_funding_of_SCO_confirmed |
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dvNuLL
n00b
Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 49
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ChojinDSL wrote: | You know, its easy to claim "I would never work for microsoft" or "geez, what a sellout", but unless you find yourself in the same tight spot as he has, you really have no right to judge.
Principles and ethics are one thing, but when it comes down to it, its not gonna provide for your family.
Besides, if I had a 40,000$ debt, I would take the most lucrative opportunity that was offered to me, so that I could get rid of my debt as quickly as possible. Not everyone has the luxury of choosing who to work for. And with luxury, I dont just mean available jobs, but also if your earnings at a certain company are going to make the job worthwile for you.
I mean, how many of you work at a job where you are forced to use Windows and other proprietary software which you cant stand, when you would rather use opensource and linux? Would any of you quit your job, if the company you worked for was absolutely against using linux? |
You nailed it right on the head. Its very easy for people who already have a job to criticise people who dont. But once you get into that situation your family comes first. Not some political ideology.
Be happy that he brought us Gentoo Linux. Be happy that he has a job. Wish him best of luck and move on.
_________________
-= Life is better at /dev/null =- |
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edudlive
Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | WTFman wrote: | | Well I've heard Gentoo put him in debt somwhere to the tune of $40,000 so if M$ is willing to give him teh $$ then sure, why wouldn't he go work for them? The thing that worries me more is M$'s suden interest in open source technology, I think they realise that OS is moving at a much faster pace than they are and want to find a way to capitalize on it. |
| edudlive wrote: | Is this true or a joke?
He does have a lot of debt, so I wouldn't doubt it |
what do you lot think IBM were paying him? Monkey nuts? |
Why the hell did you quote me? IBM apparently wasn't paying enough |
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Mythos
l33t
Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 947
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: |
Oh My, It's A Mirage
I'm Tellin' Y'all It's a Sabotage
So Listen Up 'Cause You Can't Say Nothin'
You'll Shut Me Dow With A Push Of Your Button?
But I'm Out And I'm Gone
I'll Tell You Now I Keep It On And On
'Cause What You See You Might Not Get
And We Can Bet So Don't You Get Souped Yet
You're Scheming On A Thing That's A Mirage
I'm Trying To Tell You Now It's Sabotage |
_________________
Best Regards,
Sérgio Henrique
Linux dune 3.0.6-gentoo #1 SMP Thu Oct 27 16:47:29 WEST 2011 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7500 @ 2.20GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux |
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tecknojunky
Veteran
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 1937
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Portage in Longhorn |
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| ric_man wrote: | | Would anyone out there be surprised if Microsoft released some Gentoo-like features in Longhorn? I myself would personally love to upgrade my work PCs to the latest stable whatevers from Microsoft without having to reboot... |
Boy, was that funny. I'm still laughing
Oh, you were serious? 
| ric_man wrote: | And image something like this:
| Code: | | $ USE="-drm" emerge media-player |
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| Code: | C:> emerge -av sys-os/longhorn
These are the packages that I would merge, in order:
Calculating dependencies ...done!
[ebuild N ] sys-os/dos-6.22 1.44 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-3.11 15 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-95 500 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-98SE 1000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-ME 2000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-NT-4 3000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-2000 4000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-XP 5000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-2003 6000 kB
[ebuild N ] app-antivirus/NAV-2005 175 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-plugins/security-patch-cvs 10000000000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/longhorn 10000 kB
Total size of downloads: a lot of kBs
Do you have balls? [Yes/No] _ |
(Fading Dr. Evil's voice)mhu hu hu ha ha ha. mhu hu hu ha ha ha. mhu hu hu ha ha ha. mhu hu hu ha ha ha. mhu hu hu ha ha ha........
_________________
(7 of 9) Installing star-trek/species-8.4.7.2::talax.
Last edited by tecknojunky on Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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