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Nazzy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie, so this bug has been going for how many years?

*sigh*

I've hit by this bug ... yesterday looking a pdf with Kpdf locked X a ridiculous number of times.

Are there any consistances to this other than it locks up using all the cpu and the mouse continues to function?
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Zee
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nope :?

this bug (feature?!) is more than one year old.

zee
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, there we go, I managed to provoke a lockup...

Seems X is being flooded by SIGALRM

To judge by this trace, the reason the mouse is responsive and nothing else is may be because there is only one fd being selected.

*ponders*

I'll try a `strace -ffFtttTo strace.startx startx` ... though that is gonna produce a lotta data, but it might explain exactly what happened at the point it hung
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm starting to wish to return to the old, crashless monolitic X. At least I'd be able to work without paranoia of saving everything every 5 minutes...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the lockups were present in the old monolithic X as well :(
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's odd ... if the bug occurs in monolithic Xorg, modular Xorg, XFCE (sp?) .... occurs under nv, nvidia, ati, i810 ... and occurs across multiple architectures...

One would have to assume that there is a very fundemental flaw somewhere that is expressing itself as this bug, whether that flaw is infact the root cause or not is another matter.
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Zee
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes and the 1.0 M$ question is where is the bug: in the kernel or in X

I've encountered this bug in Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Gentoo with nvidia, nv and ati driver's.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rebuilt my system recently and crash. I tried zapping and reinstalling, but no avail. I even tried reinstalling gentoo, re-emerged X, and reconfigured as vesa. My X crashes my computer. The monitor goes to standby, cannot SSH in, kills existing ssh sessions, does not create a log, and 'strace startx 1> log.txt 2>&1' produces no output... Related? I feel out of my element... I had to install CentOS to get a working xorg. Had the same problem w/ the ubuntu live cd!

Any suggestions?

r/ joshua
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1clue
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zee wrote:
yes and the 1.0 M$ question is where is the bug: in the kernel or in X

I've encountered this bug in Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Gentoo with nvidia, nv and ati driver's.

zee


OK, who uses FreeBSD? Does anyone have problems with it there?

IMHO, there's a problem with the Linux, in some just-off-the-core package. A coworker has Debian installed with no X and is also getting lockups that look extremely similar to the ones I get in X. I have a couple other Gentoo boxes, which have very minimal installs to supply things like DHCP and DNS, and no crashing.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have set up gentoo many times. On different computers. I never had problems on pentium II, pentium-m, Athlon64 with different video cards from Older matrox, ati rage (P-II), I855-GM (P-M) and nvidia GT 6600 (amd64).

But on athlon 1200+ (ati 9600) they are regular. It takes about half a day (or overnight) to freeze. SSH is not possible. Proprietary or xorg drivers, it does not make a difference.

As I am reading this posts, I am thinking about this. All the circumstances are very different. with X or without X, ... Could the problem be in the one common stuff. This could only be gcc, glibc or something, where this bug could live through all the version changes and appear when the certain conditions are met.


I'm interested in the developers point of view.


A joke: did micro-soft infiltrate some code into linux?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: I've narrowed it down to firefox-bin for me... Reply with quote

I'd been struggling with hard X lockups for years; I figured that was the price of using binary-only drivers from nVidia (currently I have a GeForce 6600LE). I have an oldish amd64 system, and recently I've noticed that my entire system hard locks when I use firefox-bin. I'm compiling Firefox now, to see if it's a problem with x86 emulation libraries and the browser. I had an uptime of 36d 16:44 when the most recent locks began; that was with Firefox 1.5.0.5. I upgraded to 1.5.0.7, and even 2.0, but while I'm using Firefox, the system will eventually hard lock, such that pings/ssh/etc. don't work and a reboot is required. Magic SysRq doesn't even work in this case. Sometimes the hard locks happen within minutes of launching Firefox, sometimes within hours. Sometimes it won't lock until DPMS turns on and then I can't even see what's on the screen. I thought, as a remote possibility, that firefox-bin somehow didn't like the flashplayer plugin, but unloading it seemed to make the hard locks happen faster. As a test, trying to eliminate firefox as the cause of the problem (I had a guess that it was a heat related problem, since my system is nearly 3 yrs old and I've never really cleaned the dust out), I've been running Epiphany as my browser. Amazingly, the hard locks have ceased.

I do have the RenderAccel in xorg.conf set to "True" now, so that may be another source of the problem; I've set it to "False". Firefox has finished compiling (finally), so I'll test this out once I get my FreeBSD VM installed.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I've narrowed it down to firefox-bin for me... Reply with quote

ectospasm wrote:
As a test, trying to eliminate firefox as the cause of the problem (I had a guess that it was a heat related problem, since my system is nearly 3 yrs old and I've never really cleaned the dust out), I've been running Epiphany as my browser. Amazingly, the hard locks have ceased.

I do have the RenderAccel in xorg.conf set to "True" now, so that may be another source of the problem; I've set it to "False". Firefox has finished compiling (finally), so I'll test this out once I get my FreeBSD VM installed.


How long did you test? Days? Weeks? Please give me a measure on how reliable your epiphany test is.

The RenderAccel option is (often) not the cause. It only decreases the problem like many other options, too. Did you try to replace your nvidia card with another nvidia card? Most of the problems reported here are probably not related to software, but simply to buggy hardware for which MS Windoze actually "knows" some tricks to prevent them... (actually, unlike Linux, MS has a certification procedure...) I even remember that Unreal Tournament 2003 seemed to be faster under Linux than under Windoze on my problematic nvidia graphics card. Maybe the nvidia driver knows about some instability problems for specific cards and decreases critical timing parameters or disables some hardware acceleration parts?

I have a second, software-identical system running: some Matrox G450 or so card with xorg vesa drivers. I don't experience any problems there... and it is an Athlon XP, too.


Last edited by Cinquero on Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: I've narrowed it down to firefox-bin for me... Reply with quote

Cinquero wrote:
How long did you test? Days? Weeks? Please give me a measure on how reliable your epiphany test is.


My Epiphany test lasted only at most a week. I would not call it scientific or reliable at all. The only reason why I did it at all was that the lockups always seemed to involve Firefox. YMMV, greatly at that.

I still think that my problem may be a combination of dodgy hardware, shitty binary-only drivers, binary incompatibilities in userland software, and perhaps heat problems caused by excessive dust buildup.

We'll see how long this compiled Firefox lasts. So far it's lasted 0d 13:37...

heh, 1337.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the freezing Athlon on my list, I'll try to change Firefox with Opera. We'll see. But overnight mostly only amule is active there.

@ectospasm: Did you leave firefox running or did you just start it use it for a while and the closed it? Does this influence the lockups?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zxy wrote:
@ectospasm: Did you leave firefox running or did you just start it use it for a while and the closed it? Does this influence the lockups?


I left Firefox running. For that 36d 16h, I'd guess that Firefox ran 36d 15:45. After that initial lockup, it'd run for a couple of days, then hard lock. And for the past couple of days my machine would hard lock after <3h of uptime. I think the memory leakage problems 1.5 Firefox has were a contributing factor. But not the only factor, since 2.0 Firefox, which should have fixed most if not all of those memory leaks, locked up my machine within minutes.

As of now, my compiled Firefox has lasted 18:15, minus no more than 10min; and Firefox has been up for at least 16h. We'll see how long this lasts.

<rant>Remember, this is only my experience. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). This seems to be a difficult problem, with many factors acting in concert, and some problems others have had may be completely different from my own. There are so many variables involved, and so much disparate hardware. I think the biggest culprit is what we cannot see, the black boxes; I'm talking about the binary-only accelerated drivers from nVidia and ATI. Both are infringing on each others' patents, and are too afraid of litigation and too greedy and short sighted to do the community a favor, and release their source. If the sources were opened up, there'd be much more scrutiny of the code, and the true causes of these lockups could be identified and solved. But, I guess money is much more important. I've grown away from playing games, so I don't need the 3D acceleration anymore. For the past I don't know how many years, I have gone exclusively nVidia, mainly because when I was originally deciding which hardware to buy, nVidia was worlds ahead of ATI in its Linux support. Not any more. I'd rather buy something with full-featured, open-source driver support. At least then I can have a glimmer of hope that problems like this can be fixed.</rant>
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:58 am    Post subject: Have anyone solved the lockup and freezes of X Reply with quote

There is a lot of pages to go through here. I wonder if anyone has solved the problem with xorg freezes. I've had the problem for 2 days, and it making me nuts (i've used Gentoo since 2005.0 and have never had these problems before). It doesn't matter wheater i use nvidia or nv, recompile the kernel or any other thing for that matter (i've used this kernel config since 2.6.17 'til now 2.6.18-r1). It's making me sick. I've search through google and there seems to be problem with other distributions to. But i haven't seen any solution. I don't want to leave Gentoo, but i can't reboot my computer every other hour, and i wish to use a windowmanager sometimes.

Spec: Gentoo 2006.1 AMD64
Arch amd64 ~amd64 (only package unmasked is firefox2 and xfce4)
Amd64 x2
Nvidia Geforce 5200 (passive cooling)
Asus a8v
Nova-t usb dvb-t
5 harddisks (sata and ata)

Have anyone any solution, i would be very happy

Have a nice day.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Have anyone solved the lockup and freezes of X Reply with quote

gigli wrote:
There is a lot of pages to go through here. I wonder if anyone has solved the problem with xorg freezes. I've had the problem for 2 days, and it making me nuts (i've used Gentoo since 2005.0 and have never had these problems before).


Please look into /var/log/portage and check what may have started your problems. Did you upgrade the kernel? Did you change the hardware? Compiler upgrade? Xorg upgrade? Profile change from 2005.0? Please send me the result for the command "ls -lrth /var/log/portage" or post it here. Thx!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Have anyone solved the lockup and freezes of X Reply with quote

It's strange because i have no /var/log/portage. I haven't done any major upgrades. I'm going through my emerge log and the only thing that happened is some kde-libs upgrade and that i removed xmms and it's use flag together with some other use flags and that xorg was remerged 26/10 and nvidia-drivers but that was about the 20th. Right now i did a xorg -configure and have the system running for at least 20 min without freezes, and i don't understand how. I have used Gentoo since 2005.0 but this i reinstalled as amd64 when 2006.1 was released and i have never had any problems at all, it has been stable as a rock. But my xorg.conf remains since i used Deabian a few years back.

Thanks for the input


Last edited by gigli on Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Have anyone solved the lockup and freezes of X Reply with quote

gigli wrote:
...


So you did not upgrade xorg, but only kdelibs? Which version did you use before? Maybe I'll just try a previous KDE version then...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Status update: since I compiled Firefox myself, I haven't had any hard locks. Uptime of 4d 16:14. I'll keep monitoring.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ectospasm wrote:
Status update: since I compiled Firefox myself, I haven't had any hard locks. Uptime of 4d 16:14. I'll keep monitoring.


I had the same problem on my ~amd64 system using firefox-bin. The problem seems to involve 32-bit plugins/code used with firefox-bin. I also experienced the same lockups using wine, which uses 32-bit code/apps.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just recently hit this problem as well. A little background to my system. It is an old Athlon Thunderbird running MythTV for the last 12 months. I have had not problems with it running the modular X and XFCE4 on my Radeon 8500 video card (using the ATI proprietory drivers). I've been running modular X v7.0-r1 since upgrading to modular X, but since the last upgrade to v7.1, i've been having issues lock-ups.

the symptoms are exactly the same (ie. when it tries to redraw certain frames that it hangs up, when i try to move my terminal screen, it hangs up) and while my keyboard is unresponsive, my mouse is fine, and my SSH session continues. difference is that i can 'invoke' this state, and know when it happens, and somehow, have control over it. funny thing is, i can still watch TV with no problems at all.

it's interesting that this seems to be an on-going problem, and i am in the process of downgrading my X to 7.0-r1. i realise that this does not always solve the problem, but seems like my only option now.

will keep everyone informed when i get some result.

[more observations]
i just checked my top and X has consumed 99.9% of my processing. and oh yes, to get out of it, i restart XDM.
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isolationism
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am experiencing these frequent lock-ups, too. In fact, this is why I switched back to Gentoo on the desktop from my several-month-experiment with Ubuntu; after upgrading Ubuntu to Edgy Eft, I was getting the same lockup problems.

But here's the rub: I'm quite certain that neither Firefox nor nVidia (nor any other display driver) is the problem, despite how many posts are here about it. I can say this with some authority because I have crashes using a Matrox card when the computer is doing nothing more than playing music in Amarok; Firefox is not only not running, it hasn't been loaded at all for the entire session either. It's not my "primary" desktop so it doesn't see a lot of heavy use.

Before the finger gets pointed at Amarok, let me also state that it doesn't have to be doing anything special to go off. I can be listening to a local audio stream (e.g. it's not even changing songs, running fancy visualizations or anything like that) and just have the whole thing freeze at random. It's also worth re-stating what others have pointed out: It's the X process that's stealing the CPU, not amarok (or any other application).

What happens is at some random point -- usually every few hours or so -- X just flattens the processor using 100% CPU (according to htop). I notice because Amarok stops playing. When I try to access the computer via x11vnc to see what's going on, the vnc server doesn't respond. I can press the button on my KVM to switch displays, and the display shows up -- but the screen is almost (but not completely) frozen -- I can still jog the mouse around a bit, but it stutters badly, appearing hundreds of pixels apart at several-second intervals. I can still ssh into the box from another machine and check out htop to see that, as always, the 'X' process is hogging the CPU.

What I have experienced on one or two occasions is that, after a long wait (read: an hour or more), something happens where the applications that were frozen on the screen disappear and within another few seconds, X returns back to 'normal' and X behaves as if nothing ever happened.

Unfortunately, according to /var/log/Xorg.0.log, nothing happened since Xorg booted up. /var/log/everything/current doesn't contain any clues as to what might have happened, either. :\
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: So far so good, 8d 14:21 with no lockups, and using Firefox (that I compiled myself) the entire time.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi at all

I didn't read the whole thread, just the latest three pages. So please forgive if this solution was allready posted.

I had the same system locks within xorg. First i also thought, that my "x11-drivers/ati-drivers" were the source of my problems. But after a week of testing and recompiling the kernel about 50 times i think i found a solution (at least working for me).

When i created my kernel i throw out everything with a make allnoconfig. Then i just installed the stuff i needed. When i came to the Processor features i set my Timer frequency to (1000 Hz) because the help there says:

Quote:
CONFIG_HZ_1000:

1000 HZ is the preferred choice for desktop systems and other
systems requiring fast interactive responses to events.


But as it looks like, this choice wasn't a really good one. First i switched down to 250Hz but the crashes where still there (at least, the system didn't crash that fast anymore). Then i switched down to 100Hz and now it looks like, this was the big hit. At least my System didn't have any crash in the latest 11hours.

And the best thing is, i didn't see any speed impact on my system switching down the time frequency from 1000 Hz to 100Hz. Everything works fine, my ati renders opengl stuff like hell and i can view TV.

So maybe this is a solution for some of you out there having these crashes. Try it out. And if it helps, post it here ;-)

STiGMaTa_ch
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