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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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 Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| rbiswarup wrote: | In case someone is interested this is my Grub setting:
| Code: | title Jackass!_Install_CD
root (hd0,6)
kernel /isolinux/gentoo root=/dev/ram0 init=/linuxrc looptype=squashfs loop=/livecd.squashfs udev nodevfs cdroot=/dev/hda7 initrd=/isolinux/gentoo.igz |
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well, i have to admit, i think that this is a very cool solution to the problem of not having a CD burner! 
in fairness to you for being so industrious, i don't think its fair for us to say that we won't support you at all just because you chose a novel method of booting the Install CD. now that you've got the Jackass! Install CD environment up and running, you can follow the installation manual and extract the tarball. as long as you can complete the recommended steps in the installation manual, such as copying resolv.conf, mounting proc, mtab, etc., i don't think that you'll run into any problems. it looks like you'll have a supported install after all. 
thanks for posting that novel method of booting from the .ISO image without burning a CD. that is just too cool.
edit: ok, technically you're using a loopback device to mount the .ISO image, and extracting the files from the mounted folder to an HD partition, but you still get the idea.
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Bob P
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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JACKASS! MIRRORS WANTED!
If anyone is interested in acting as a public distribution mirror for Jackass!, please contact me by PM.
basically, we need people with nice fat pipes that can host about 1.2 GB of files. our Jackass! Project home page will be the front end for the system, and a mirror page on our site will direct users to their choice of mirror.
there are all sorts of details that would need to be met to become a mirror, mostly related to technical aspects of file hosting, agreements not to post ads on the mirrors, making all of the files available to the public and not just to subscribers, etc.
please send me a PM if you're interested.
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Sade
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Bob_P:
is there a special reason that u build the kernel in the matter: | Code: | | # make && make modules && make modules_install && make install |
While in the Gentoo Linux Kernel Upgrade Guide an other method is used, namely: | Code: | # make && make modules_install
# mount /boot
# cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/bzImage-2.6.9-gentoo-r2
# cp System.map /boot/System.map-2.6.9-gentoo-r2 |
Is "your" method the same as the one in the gentoo-doc's but just less to type?
Or is there a difference?
And which method is the better one to use then?
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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As far as the make && make modules && make modules_install, I suppose you could say it's for debugging reasons. Personally, I use make && make modules_install, which does the same thing. As far as make install, I don't use it. Basically what it does is copies the bzImage and the System.map to your boot partition, and I belive gives them names based off of the source name (although it could just plop them there as bzImage and System.map). Of course you should mount your boot partition if you have one before running make install, otherwise it will plop them in the /boot on your root partition. I like to copy the files manually though, because I usually give them unique names based of their configuration. That and I just don't trust a machine to do a man's job.
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Bob P
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Sith_Happens wrote: | | Basically what it does is copies the bzImage and the System.map to your boot partition, and I belive gives them names based off of the source name (although it could just plop them there as bzImage and System.map). |
yes, it copies the kernel, system.map, and configuration file to the /boot partition. it uses the full name of the kernel, the System.map, and the config file. it also creates symlinks to shortened names, ie: vmlinuz, System.map and config. In addition, it creates backups of all of the files and symlinks that would have been over-written. Its a great timesaver, and I've never understood why the Gentoo kernel guys don't use it. 
I also like to give my files unique names. In cases like that, its very easy to just create a symlink to the file. 
As you can see, make install saves you an awful lot of tedious typing.
| Sith_Happens wrote: | | ... That and I just don't trust a machine to do a man's job. |
This definition is provided courtesy of dictionary.com:
| Quote: | Luddite n.
1. Any of a group of British workers who between 1811 and 1816 rioted and destroyed laborsaving textile machinery in the belief that such machinery would diminish employment.
2. One who opposes technical or technological change. |
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Sade
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | | Quote: | Luddite [i]n.[/n]
1. Any of a group of British workers who between 1811 and 1816 rioted and destroyed laborsaving textile machinery in the belief that such machinery would diminish employment.
2. One who opposes technical or technological change. |
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Bob, don't be so harsh! Be like fonzy:
And on the topic:
thx for the comment's about the build-method. I didn't know which one to choose and know i do.
Bob's way is very easy, and it still has the advantages Ryan mentioned.
I'm sensing a win-win-situation here.
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Bob P
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, cool like fonzy. i think that everyone appreciated that it was said tongue-in-cheek.
regarding the win-win situation, yeah -- that's exactly why i've been doing it that way for so long. "make install" preserves everything that you need to preserve, and saves alot of idle typing. interestingly, i've spoken to some of the Gentoo kernel devs, and they never use "make install". needless to say, i was surprised to hear that!
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Sith_Happens wrote: | Luddite n.
1. Any of a group of British workers who between 1811 and 1816 rioted and destroyed laborsaving textile machinery in the belief that such machinery would diminish employment.
2. One who opposes technical or technological change. |
European History flashback. If I have to create another forum login, I'm calling it Luddite.
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tcostigl
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Daring question here... Since everything is being rebuilt is it safe to change CHOST after installing the stage3 tarball? I know jackass has stages for most sub-archs but lets assume i want to use a generic x86 stage then upgrade to chost to i686. |
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| tcostigl wrote: | | Daring question here... Since everything is being rebuilt is it safe to change CHOST after installing the stage3 tarball? I know jackass has stages for most sub-archs but lets assume i want to use a generic x86 stage then upgrade to chost to i686. |
The Jackass! tarballs are for a stage 3 type installation, that is you install it, configure it, and build a kernel. You need to look at the Stage 1/3 install if you want to change CHOSTs from a generic x86 stage (Jackass! doesn't even have a generic x86 stage). You could, assuming you are using a machine that is backwards compatible to the seed stage, take a Jackass! stage, change the CHOST and run emerge -e system && emerge -e world to recompile your entire system with the new CHOST. Niether of these are Jackass! installs however, so if you end up doing a Stage 1/3, post support requests in the appropriate support topic. If you do the install procedure I outlined above and run into trouble, create a new post. Best of luck.
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nightmorph
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Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| tcostigl wrote: | | Daring question here... Since everything is being rebuilt is it safe to change CHOST after installing the stage3 tarball? I know jackass has stages for most sub-archs but lets assume i want to use a generic x86 stage then upgrade to chost to i686. |
IIRC, the Gentoo installation manual specifically forbids changing the CHOST provided in stage 3 tarballs; other Stage 1 tarballs require altering the CHOST to something appropriate, but since the Jackass! tarballs behave the same way as the Gentoo tarballs, I wouldn't recommend it, as the entire contents have been built according to the specific CHOST.
Basically, I would strongly urge you not to change the CHOST in an attempt to upgrade; if nothing else, I'd think you'd want to do a minimum 4 to 6 recompiles to get everything properly rebuilt, which more or less defeats the point of Jackass! I suggest that instead of upgrading an existing system, you install a fresh Jackass! tarball that meets your requirements, or if nothing else, head over to the 2005.0 Stage 1/3 thread.
HTH.
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| tcostigl wrote: | | Daring question here... Since everything is being rebuilt is it safe to change CHOST after installing the stage3 tarball? I know jackass has stages for most sub-archs but lets assume i want to use a generic x86 stage then upgrade to chost to i686. |
this falls under the category of RTM.
| Jackass Installation Manual wrote: | | Code: | # Copyright 2005 Jackass! Production Team
# Distributed under the terms of the General Public License v2
# File: /etc/make.conf
# Task: Basic settings for the Jackass! Toolkit
#
# /\ /\ Jackass! 2005.0 for Pentium
# ( \\ // )
# \ \\ // / This system configuration should be used for all Jackass!
# \_\\||||//_/ installations. It is recommended that you do not make any
# \/ _ _ \/ changes to the CHOST setting, to your processor setting, or
# \/|(O)(O)| to the CFLAG settings, or system failures may result.
# \/ | |
#_\/ \ / Edit the contents of the GENTOO_MIRRORS statement to include
# |____| the address of your local Gentoo mirror, and add USE flags as
# / \ necessary for the proper configuration of your system.
# \ 0 0 /
# / \____/
# /
#_/
#
#
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Clyde
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Location: Greenville, SC
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | one thing that i have noticed when looking over the statistics on our server is that the majority of the users are NOT downloading the MD5 files to verify that the ISO are properly transmitted. after you download the ISO, its absolutely essential to verify its integrity. i'm at a loss to explain why everyone seems to be skipping that step.
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One reason may be the way that n00bs (like myself) tend to use your website's .md5 hyperlinks to get an .md5 file: by using Windows/IE, which makes it all too easy to save it as a bunch of html, and/or with the wrong filename, etc. Then a subset of us have to find and download a Windows md5sum.exe and know to run it with a -c parm. |
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Clyde wrote: | | Bob P wrote: | one thing that i have noticed when looking over the statistics on our server is that the majority of the users are NOT downloading the MD5 files to verify that the ISO are properly transmitted. after you download the ISO, its absolutely essential to verify its integrity. i'm at a loss to explain why everyone seems to be skipping that step.
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One reason may be the way that n00bs (like myself) tend to use your website's .md5 hyperlinks to get an .md5 file: by using Windows/IE, which makes it all too easy to save it as a bunch of html, and/or with the wrong filename, etc. Then a subset of us have to find and download a Windows md5sum.exe and know to run it with a -c parm. |
The people who download from windows make up about half of the total visitors, so that is no small subset.
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Bob P
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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MIRROR ANNOUNCEMENT:
We are happy to announce that we have had two web hosts volunteer their service in support of Open Source Software Development by acting as file-download mirrors for The Jackass! Project.
Two Authorized Download Mirrors for The Jackass! Project went on-line today. At present, Jackass! is being hosted on three download mirrors that have very fat pipes.
I would like to acknowledge the following people who have been generous enough to provide file hosting services for the project. The new mirrors are administrated by Eric Davis and James Dio.
| Code: |
Host: URL: Location: Notes:
---------- ------------------------------ --------- -------------------------------------------
Eric Davis http://compuextreme.com USA - CA Free Hosting Plans for Open Source projects
James Dio http://psunit.com USA - NJ PS-Unit Mirror for OSS Projects
Ryan Lynch http://bluebox.student.umd.edu USA - MD Jackass! Project Development Team
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To facilitate finding the files on the mirrors, The Jackass! Project website at http://jackass.homelinux.org has direct download links to the mirrored files on its download page.
We are still looking for additional mirrors to support distribution of The Jackass! Project. If you would be interested in supporting OSSD by providing a mirror for The Jackass! Project, please send me a Personal Message via the Gentoo Forums. Optimally, we would like to add an additional USA mirror (preferably in the Midwest) and a European mirror.
Thanks!
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Clyde
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Location: Greenville, SC
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: n00b-oriented questions/comments |
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Some extremely minor nitpicks about a very impressive and useful project:
1. As a n00b trying to learn the purpose of each little detail, component, configuration setting, etc. in a system as I build it, I can refer back to the Gentoo Install Handbook to understand why the Jackass install guide (section 7.2 "Emerge Services") emerges syslog-ng, grub, vixie-cron, reiserfsprogs, and dhcpcd. And although they're not specifically mentioned in the GIH, it's fairly intuitive to guess why Jackass also emerges sysfsutils, hotplug, coldplug, gentoolkit, acpid and ntp. But I have no easy way to divine why it emerges xinetd. Is it just a commonly used but noncritical option?
2. Similar to #1, is adding sshd to the default runlevel a common but noncritical option?
3. The Jackass install guide says that [compared to fiddling with CFLAGS], "the most powerful method of optimizing Gentoo lies in the area of USE flags." But aside from the nptl issue, it avoids making any comments on the relative usefulness of all the USE flags included in the standard base layout. Any n00b browsing the forums quickly learns that USE flags are poorly documented and a contentious topic. But some general guidance from the Jackass dev team would be extremely helpful. For example, since Jackass includes acpid (see #1 above), why is the acpi USE flag not also used?
4. Since resyncing after install is said to be such a crapshoot, it might be useful to incorporate heilvc's, MindEraser's or some similar update script into future iso's, or at least described the install guide. |
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Geministorm
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Joined: 10 May 2005
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Location: Melbourne, FL USA
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Bob, et al.;
Fantastic job people! A very professional ISO, I'm quite impressed that this was put together so quickly and so well done. Not at all what I expected from a group distanced by physical space and with real lives to lead (on the side?  ).
I started the install this afternoon after successfully finishing the 1/3 method (lordy, that's a lot of compiling), re-partitioned everything, and was going to do the install via Knoppix, but after reading Bob's post about different media, I decided to differ to the experts...
Small comment/nit and some questions;
Comment: During the network setup, I needed to create the /etc/resolv.conf file using vi. No issue what-so-ever with that (I'm used to setting up configs by hand, enjoy it actually), but for the sake of completeness, the manual describes copying over the file to the Gentoo/Jackass! environment later (6.1 Copy DNS Information). I know you shouldn't need to hand-hold everyone through their unique network setup, and that you must assume that anyone using this methodology is proficient to some degree with Linux....I'm just suggesting this for the sake of logic.
Question #1: During the 1/3 installation and also when I did the Gentoo Stage 1, 2 & 3 installs, I had issues with svgalibs and alsa-drivers wanted a configured and compiled kernel on the system already. The fix mentioned in the forums did not solve the problem so I needed to either do a;
| Code: | | USE="-svgalibs -alsa" emerge --resume |
or, emerge, configure and compile the kernel at that point. I choose the second option. I also decided that emerging CCACHE prior to the "emerge -e system && emerge -e system" would prove beneficial.
Do you see any problem with doing this during the Jackass! installation (in other words, going out of sequence)....I'll take my answer offline as I duck out of the way of any flying projectiles. 
Question #2: Removed after actually reading the documentation (7.1 Emerge Ccache)
Question #3: I went with 2GB CCACHE. I have the following partition setup;
/dev/sda5 +100M /boot
/dev/sda6 +512M swap
/dev/sda7 +8000M /
/dev/sda8 +4000M /var
/dev/sda9 +12000M /home
/dev/sda10 +24000M /usr
See any problems that might crop up space-wise with this?
Thanks Jackasses! I'll update as I get further along the install process.
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Sade
Guru
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 406
Location: Netherlands - Eindhoven
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: Re: n00b-oriented questions/comments |
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| Clyde wrote: | Some extremely minor nitpicks about a very impressive and useful project:
1. As a n00b trying to learn the purpose of each little detail, component, configuration setting, etc. in a system as I build it, I can refer back to the Gentoo Install Handbook to understand why the Jackass install guide (section 7.2 "Emerge Services") emerges syslog-ng, grub, vixie-cron, reiserfsprogs, and dhcpcd. And although they're not specifically mentioned in the GIH, it's fairly intuitive to guess why Jackass also emerges sysfsutils, hotplug, coldplug, gentoolkit, acpid and ntp. But I have no easy way to divine why it emerges xinetd. Is it just a commonly used but noncritical option?
2. Similar to #1, is adding sshd to the default runlevel a common but noncritical option?
3. The Jackass install guide says that [compared to fiddling with CFLAGS], "the most powerful method of optimizing Gentoo lies in the area of USE flags." But aside from the nptl issue, it avoids making any comments on the relative usefulness of all the USE flags included in the standard base layout. Any n00b browsing the forums quickly learns that USE flags are poorly documented and a contentious topic. But some general guidance from the Jackass dev team would be extremely helpful. For example, since Jackass includes acpid (see #1 above), why is the acpi USE flag not also used?
4. Since resyncing after install is said to be such a crapshoot, it might be useful to incorporate heilvc's, MindEraser's or some similar update script into future iso's, or at least described the install guide. |
The difficulty of each project is to set a scope, and to stick with it.
The scope of this project was to enlight the compiling-time of a stage1/3 install
And the scope of the stage1/3 install was a install method for more advanced users.
Mayb one can answer your four questions here, but i think they don't belong in this topic.
I also think bob will agree with me on this one.
Nevertheless i think these are good questions to ask yourself but this just isn't the place.
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Sade
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Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 406
Location: Netherlands - Eindhoven
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Geministorm wrote: | Question #3: I went with 2GB CCACHE. I have the following partition setup;
/dev/sda5 +100M /boot
/dev/sda6 +512M swap
/dev/sda7 +8000M /
/dev/sda8 +4000M /var
/dev/sda9 +12000M /home
/dev/sda10 +24000M /usr
See any problems that might crop up space-wise with this? |
i can't realy answer your first questions because i don't know the answers.
this one i can answer: i have a 8Gb root partition, and a 2Gb ccache and it doesn't fill up. And i don't even have a /var and /usr partition.
but if in trouble u can always move the ccache to a different partition if you want to. check the /etc/make.conf.example for how to do this.
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Geministorm
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 50
Location: Melbourne, FL USA
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Bob P, et al;
Wonderful!
I want to say that the Jackass! install finished and I was up and running sooner than I expected, and the manual is "spot on".
I know this is the Support Forum for Jackass!, but I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate all the effort put forth by the Jackass! team. You guys did a marvelous job.
kudos!
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todw1fd
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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strange problem with sfdisk reporting seek errors and unrecognized partition table type. Found a post on the web saying there was a problem with compiling util-linux using gcc 3.4 that leads to these errors. Could anyone else using Jackass verify that they also have the same problems? Here's a link to my original post in the Kernel forum:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-339197.html
Just running sfdisk -l should show you if this problem affects us all or for some reason just me.
fdisk and cfdisk work just fine, so not a showstopper. Just wanted to dump my partition tables out for backup sake. |
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| todw1fd wrote: | strange problem with sfdisk reporting seek errors and unrecognized partition table type. Found a post on the web saying there was a problem with compiling util-linux using gcc 3.4 that leads to these errors. Could anyone else using Jackass verify that they also have the same problems? Here's a link to my original post in the Kernel forum:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-339197.html
Just running sfdisk -l should show you if this problem affects us all or for some reason just me.
fdisk and cfdisk work just fine, so not a showstopper. Just wanted to dump my partition tables out for backup sake. |
fwiw, one of our testers (obsidianblackhawk) uses sfdisk exclusively. he's tested every single tarball in the Jackass project with sfdisk. maybe he can shed a little light on the issue.
with that said, if sfdisk is causing problems for you and you've found a reason why its not supposed to work with gcc 343, then i wouldn't recommend using it to partition your disk! if you haven't done so already, you need to file a bug report with bugzilla.
fdisk is the program that is recommended in the Jackass! Installation Manual. we support the install with it, and it works fine.
fwiw, this is not a jackass-specific issue. this is an ebuild issue. because there is nothing that we can do about an ebuild problem, it really needs to be reported via bugzilla.
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Geministorm wrote: | Question #1: During the 1/3 installation and also when I did the Gentoo Stage 1, 2 & 3 installs, I had issues with svgalibs and alsa-drivers wanted a configured and compiled kernel on the system already. The fix mentioned in the forums did not solve the problem so I needed to either do a;
| Code: | | USE="-svgalibs -alsa" emerge --resume |
or, emerge, configure and compile the kernel at that point. I choose the second option. I also decided that emerging CCACHE prior to the "emerge -e system && emerge -e system" would prove beneficial.
Do you see any problem with doing this during the Jackass! installation (in other words, going out of sequence)....I'll take my answer offline as I duck out of the way of any flying projectiles.
Question #2: Removed after actually reading the documentation (7.1 Emerge Ccache)
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thanks for the kind words.
1. i kind of hate to say this in reply, but Jackass! and the Stage 1/3 install focus on building the system toolkit, and they don't cover hardware configuration issues like problems with svgalibs and alsa. so i'm going to have to cop-out and say that those topics are beyond the scope of the Project. i'd recommend that you follow-up on those in Kernel & Hardware. 
that said, there are some packages that have to be emerged AFTER the kernel is emerged, as they are dependent upon it. you have absoluetly no hope of getting those programs to work if you emerge them before your kernel. this is particularly true of audio / video hardware that is dependent upon kernel drivers.
this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, as these packages typically try to emerge the kernel as a dependency, and you have to manually override that action to get the programs to install.
these concepts are Gentoo Fundamentals that everyone needs to be aware of. if you look at the JIH you'll see an example that splashutils is emerged after the kernel, instead of with the rest of the world packages.
2. yes, reading the manual always helps. what you're supposed to do when installing is read the manual, and follow it dogmatically. this means that you perform the steps listed, and only the steps listed. you can add other packages AFTER you complete the install. you shouldn't add other packages, such as audio / video packages, until all of the steps in the install have been completed.
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Stage 1/3 | Jackass! | Rockhopper! | Thanks | Google Sucks |
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Bob P
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Please Note:
The Jackass! Project and the Stage 1/3 Installation Method for Gentoo 2005.0 have their own support threads. My Personal Message box should NOT be used to solicit support for either of these projects.
Please post all Jackass! support requests to the Jackass! Support Group.
Please post all Stage 1/3 support requests to the Stage 1/3 Support Thread.
Please note that I will not repond to ANY Personal Messages requesting support for the Stage 1 on 3 Installation Guide or for the Jackass! Project . All Personal Messages sent to me that contain personalized support requests will be deleted without a reply.
Please post ALL support requests to the Official Support Threads, where everyone can benefit from the answers!
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todw1fd
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | with that said, if sfdisk is causing problems for you and you've found a reason why its not supposed to work with gcc 343, then i wouldn't recommend using it to partition your disk! if you haven't done so already, you need to file a bug report with bugzilla.
fdisk is the program that is recommended in the Jackass! Installation Manual. we support the install with it, and it works fine.
fwiw, this is not a jackass-specific issue. this is an ebuild issue. because there is nothing that we can do about an ebuild problem, it really needs to be reported via bugzilla. |
Used fdisk for the install without issue. Prior to submitting a bug, i was just trying to find out if there are others with the same problem, specifically within the Jackass project since the version of gcc used matches the one blurp found out there about sfdisk problems. Thought it might be good to narrow things down a bit before submitting a bug. Out of curiousity, and without expecting support for the ebuild problem, did you happen to run sfdisk -l without any errors? |
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