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wtf?!
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fallow wrote:
You can add dir_index feature ( hasged b-trees to indexing dirs support ) and configure journall usage.
for example set size of it, set a external device for journal map , or "deep" of it .
all popular fs didnt journal ALL. xfs,jfs,or reisefs jorunalling only metadata. in ext3 You can journall ALL.

but imho is good to add dir_index just. DEFAULT Journalling options for ext3 are very good :)
no special reason to changing it.

cheers.


Yes, I've already read that in your FAQ. But I wanted to know what your /etc/fstab looks like, and what options you use for your ext3-partition.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey fallow, where can I get a hold of the patches for the the genetic schedulers, both I/O and CPU? The performance I've seen under a high load with the love kernels is phenominal, and I'd like to apply those scheduler patches in some of my homebrew grsecurity kernels (not for general consumption, sorry :( ). With CK sources you can download all the patches online (which I do :wink: ), but it doesn't seem like you ever did that with love-sources, unless I'm mistaken. I've been using staircase with my grsecurity kernels, but it seems to crap out on me with loads above 2, where as with love-sources I can be compiling glibc, watching a movie, and running a medium-traffic web server simultaneously with no perceptible performance hit whatsoever in any application (I hope to offload these functions to seperate machines in the near future, but right now I'm strapped for cash). If you could just point me in the right direction to find the patches I would much appreciate it. I anticipate alot of trouble getting these patches to apply to a grsecurity kernel, so I'll probably have to hack it together. But thats the fun part right? :D
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vipernicus wrote:
hardlocks at startx


Recompiled without 4K stacks, works like a charm.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:11 am    Post subject: Genetic I/O Reply with quote

Sith_Happens wrote:
Hey fallow, where can I get a hold of the patches for the the genetic schedulers, both I/O and CPU? The performance I've seen under a high load with the love kernels is phenominal, and I'd like to apply those scheduler patches in some of my homebrew grsecurity kernels (not for general consumption, sorry :( ). With CK sources you can download all the patches online (which I do :wink: ), but it doesn't seem like you ever did that with love-sources, unless I'm mistaken. I've been using staircase with my grsecurity kernels, but it seems to crap out on me with loads above 2, where as with love-sources I can be compiling glibc, watching a movie, and running a medium-traffic web server simultaneously with no perceptible performance hit whatsoever in any application (I hope to offload these functions to seperate machines in the near future, but right now I'm strapped for cash). If you could just point me in the right direction to find the patches I would much appreciate it. I anticipate alot of trouble getting these patches to apply to a grsecurity kernel, so I'll probably have to hack it together. But thats the fun part right? :D


http://kernel.jakem.net/patches/genetic/2.6.11/2.6.11-gl1

I've been downloading them from that website, but no 2.6.12* yet.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wtf?! wrote:

Yes, I've already read that in your FAQ. But I wanted to know what your /etc/fstab looks like, and what options you use for your ext3-partition.


my options in fstabe are : noatime
my features additional to default features : dir_index
some people using also journal_data for full journaling , but I dont like it .
U can choose for example beetwen data=journal mode , data=ordered mode or data=writeback mode
Check the manual or google for it . its many of reviews.
check also -> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-305871.html codergeek42's How-TO :)

vipernicus wrote:
vipernicus wrote:
hardlocks at startx


Recompiled without 4K stacks, works like a charm.


nice :)

mpalencia wrote:
Sith_Happens wrote:
Hey fallow, where can I get a hold of the patches for the the genetic schedulers, both I/O and CPU? The performance I've seen under a high load with the love kernels is phenominal, and I'd like to apply those scheduler patches in some of my homebrew grsecurity kernels (not for general consumption, sorry :( ). With CK sources you can download all the patches online (which I do :wink: ), but it doesn't seem like you ever did that with love-sources, unless I'm mistaken. I've been using staircase with my grsecurity kernels, but it seems to crap out on me with loads above 2, where as with love-sources I can be compiling glibc, watching a movie, and running a medium-traffic web server simultaneously with no perceptible performance hit whatsoever in any application (I hope to offload these functions to seperate machines in the near future, but right now I'm strapped for cash). If you could just point me in the right direction to find the patches I would much appreciate it. I anticipate alot of trouble getting these patches to apply to a grsecurity kernel, so I'll probably have to hack it together. But thats the fun part right? :D


http://kernel.jakem.net/patches/genetic/2.6.11/2.6.11-gl1

I've been downloading them from that website, but no 2.6.12* yet.


http://vivid.dat.pl/fallow/pub/index.php?dir=genetics-4-nicksched/ - genetic nicksched here.
http://vivid.dat.pl/fallow/pub/index.php?dir=love-sources/2.6.11-love2/&file=2.6.11-love2-usb-oops-fix1.diff
now You have all genetiic patches used in love.

Sith_Happens:

The performance on current kernel is worst for U :) ?
You cannot compiling glibc , watch the movie and something else ?
I can do it easy.

but One moment , Your goal is performance or interactivity ? Or maybe both , but by this way You must find good balance beetwen them , if You will have superb performance You can lose interactivity and vice versa :)


Please notice also the words of Genetic Lib , Zaphod and Anticipatory Maintainer

J.Moilanen wrote:

Performance

On UnixBench I saw about a 2% gain for the file read/write/copy on the Anticipatory Scheduler.

On SpecJBB I've seen about a 2-3% gain on the Zaphod Scheduler plugin.

I've had no luck getting a performance improvement w/ the Deadline scheduler plugin.


now please add to this my words beacause I did port to Genetic Nicksched.
fallow wrote:

In genetic nicksched are many less of genetic parameters used to tune than in genetic zaphod.
genetic zaphod has even other genes for RR scheduling.

So the maintainer of Genetic Zaphod saying that gain is around 2-3%, then I can say that gain in genetic nicksched
can be around 0,5%-1%


cheers :)
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the links guys. I managed to get all the genetic patches to apply to a grsecurity/PAX patched kernel with little fuss. I'm going to give genetic zaphod a try and see if the performance gains are really greater than with the genetic nickscheduler. Thanks again. :)
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sith_Happens wrote:
Thanks for the links guys. I managed to get all the genetic patches to apply to a grsecurity/PAX patched kernel with little fuss. I'm going to give genetic zaphod a try and see if the performance gains are really greater than with the genetic nickscheduler. Thanks again. :)


dont wait for suprises ;)

zaphod has big problems with the interactivity still ;)
its just awfull for destkop usage , but good for _REAL_ servers.
If interactivity is no matter for You , then will be good.

I choosed nikscheduler as base to port , because we was using it in love , and niksched doesnt have problems with interactivity like zaphod.

cheers :)
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this kernel I'm building is going to be for a dedicated server, I still use love-2.6.11-love2 on my desktop. Perhaps I will try patching with the Genetic Nickscheduler for a desktop grsecurity kernel, but I've found that grsecurity is a PITA for desktops, so I'd rather just put my desktop behind a dedicated firewall, run no services on it, and stick with a love-sources kernel. :)
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, i took your word for it and switched from reiser4 to ext3. I have to admit that with your kernel ext3 is way more responsive than reiser4. I never had problems with reiser4 so I stayed with it, but I decided to switch because my emerge sync's would take forever and my CPU usage would always be 100% because of the disk access.

My system is so much more responsive now following your advice. I used the Anticipatory I/O. Which do you recommend?

Also, there are two requests I would like to make and see in the next patchset. The 1G low mem support, and LUFS support. I guess I can live with the highmen implementation, but I need LUFS so that I can read and write my NTFS disks. And the latest captive-ntfs does NOT work with fuse and lufis. It only works with a patched kernel version of LUFS.

Thanks though for letting me see the light with ext3.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:
ok, i took your word for it and switched from reiser4 to ext3. I have to admit that with your kernel ext3 is way more responsive than reiser4. I never had problems with reiser4 so I stayed with it, but I decided to switch because my emerge sync's would take forever and my CPU usage would always be 100% because of the disk access.

My system is so much more responsive now following your advice. I used the Anticipatory I/O. Which do you recommend?

Also, there are two requests I would like to make and see in the next patchset. The 1G low mem support, and LUFS support. I guess I can live with the highmen implementation, but I need LUFS so that I can read and write my NTFS disks. And the latest captive-ntfs does NOT work with fuse and lufis. It only works with a patched kernel version of LUFS.

Thanks though for letting me see the light with ext3.


No problem :) nice to hear that.
OK we will think about 1GB Low mem and LUFS .

You're on ext3 now
for destkop usage I recomending CFQ-TS , which doesnt giving maximal performance of fs , but is "completly fair quening" so You will save Your interactivity in high fs loads also.

cheers
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry Fallow, no go on my opterons, breaks somewhere in smpboot.c ... are you bored ? should i send you the output ?? :D

BUT working nice on my other amd-xp box with default settings, good job !!!

One request : what are your opinions about the sched stuff in -mm ??? Can you give this a try in next love ???
Im running a self patched kernel with all the mm sched + amd64 patches here on my amd64 boxes and it feels at least a bit snappier; just my impressions of course, have no numbers. Did someone test this ?

And I think we already talked about this, but for those brave guys out there using ext3 give this a shot, looks promising but is still beta code http://abiss.sourceforge.net/ (Im not saying to include this in love of course, just to let you know ;) )

cheers
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I will give it a try next week. :)

Got an new hd, making a new system.

We will see how the new system with love + ext3 + nginit-system will compare to my currently System (nitro + reiser4). :)

@all who are still thinking, performance is all and reiser4 is overall:

Why the hell should reiser4 be included in a DESKTOP-Kernel? Can anyone give me a good answer to this question?

Could not be the performance, when the high CPU-Usage/Ram-Usage gives the latency a big a..-kick.

skar
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my question was about the disk I/O, I used cfq-ts for the scheduler.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:
My system is so much more responsive now following your advice. I used the Anticipatory I/O. Which do you recommend?


fallow wrote:
You're on ext3 now
for destkop usage I recomending CFQ-TS , which doesnt giving maximal performance of fs , but is "completly fair quening" so You will save Your interactivity in high fs loads also.


HecHacker1 wrote:
my question was about the disk I/O, I used cfq-ts for the scheduler.

:?:

what where you using now, anticipatory or cfq-ts? they are both I/O scheds...
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok fallow,

I had hardlocks when I was starting startx, too. First I wasn't sure what was the reason, but now I am. My PC also freezed when the terminal got black, so I thought it was a problem of vesafb-tng. After that I compiled the kernel without vesafb-tng and everything runs fine. But a question what I ever wanted to know:

Isn't it better to use the Nvidia-framebuffer-driver instead of the vesafb-tng?
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is better to use the vesa-tng.

2. reasons

a. The vesa-tng is much more stable. I am using Linux since 7 years and i had never get the rivafb/nvidiafb get working. Every time i get black-screens or fragmented displays and i am using nvidia since the same time. I never overclocked my card, got so many different cards nothing worked for me.

b. As more Users try the vesa-tng instead of any other drivers, the bigger the chance to get it included in the main-kernel. The old vesa-stuff is deprecated in my opinion.

skar
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just found the time to copy / and /usr to ext3 to finally test this :P wooooohaaaaa 8O

maybe placebo for first but damn this feels faster as the -ck i used the last time, which again has been faster for me than last love. i'll try to get it skipping sound under high load while moving around some huge amount of files... and give it some days uptime

i have vesa-tng compiled in, but disabled at boottime (makes not that much sense, i know) with video=vesafb,1024x768... and no probs at X startup

ok, now it's time to stress this nice love'ly thing, hehe and see how things go. and i have to get rid of my reiser4 /home it seems
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gimpel wrote:
just found the time to copy / and /usr to ext3 to finally test this :P wooooohaaaaa 8O

maybe placebo for first but damn this feels faster as the -ck i used the last time, which again has been faster for me than last love. i'll try to get it skipping sound under high load while moving around some huge amount of files... and give it some days uptime

i have vesa-tng compiled in, but disabled at boottime (makes not that much sense, i know) with video=vesafb,1024x768... and no probs at X startup

ok, now it's time to stress this nice love'ly thing, hehe and see how things go. and i have to get rid of my reiser4 /home it seems


Me too!

I saw the system-configuration i post above (ext3 + new init system + love) on a similar system to mine (same hardware except the soundcard).

It has a lot of better latencys than my system wich is currently using nitro-sources + reiser4.

skar
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, on emerge sync things are really slow with ext3 @ cfq-ts i have to admit, maybe i should throw /usr/portage on reiserfs or reiser4 again...
and multiple compiles at a time take quite long, but the desktop keeps being more usable, very nice so far, didn't manage to get audio playback skipping even at a load of ~9, on -ck+reiser4 it started skipping at about 7

i love that love so far :P

what do you guys use for /usr/portage? is it /usr/portage that is responsible for syncs?.. should be as a sync causes a huge amount of small files... the difference to reiser4 is really massive, no idea how it would be with reiserfs... must test :)
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Guys , great to hear that opinions :)

about question about *fb , and X freezing after startx + vesa-tng , just dont compile vesatng into kernel.

about interactivity great to hear good opinions :)

about long time of emerge sync. hmmm

My time of updating portage cache is around 30-40 seconds now. and I dont have a rocket ( amd1.0, via kt 133 ) .
ext3+dir_index and portage + python-cdb .

this maybe can sound strange for first hearing but please take a look on portage responding time if You will put it into ext2.
hehe this is really impressive :) do some portage operations with ext2 based portage.

yeah yeah I know that "there is a lot of small files , this is reiser* heaven " , easy , take a look :)
of course I meaning not only /usr/portage in ext2 but also the place where is used to doing cache updating etc.

are some methods on the forum , to partial doing it in RAM also ;)

yeah , without journalling some things can be just faster . but some not :) and without journaling is more risky.

cheers.

ps.
rc4 based release very soon.

RT-Limist are in vanilla now :D :) jfs fixes , reiserfs fixes and some of ext3....

gringo @ of course thanks for the idea. Im not sure if we requiring the abiss for destkop usage . but I will do proper testing. maybe I just do implementation of genetics for Ingosched ? ? hehe, just joking :) ... Im interested also in swap_scheduling idea which Lovechild introduced me. of course no early enthusiasm . testing first :) and about sched fixes in mm , this is in 90% multiprocessor Nick Piggins fixes , but ..hmm. :) I willl see :) some of them are also in rc4 now :)

cheers .:) Im going to bed


AHH we have also love-sources logo competition . If someone is interested in doing a logo . please send graphic in 80x80 resolution to fallow@lovesunix.net :)

actual gallery -> http://vivid.dat.pl/fallow/pub/index.php?dir=love-sources/love-logos/



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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could LIRC patch be added in new love-sources?
That would be nice!:)
Thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gimpel wrote:
HecHacker1 wrote:
My system is so much more responsive now following your advice. I used the Anticipatory I/O. Which do you recommend?


fallow wrote:
You're on ext3 now
for destkop usage I recomending CFQ-TS , which doesnt giving maximal performance of fs , but is "completly fair quening" so You will save Your interactivity in high fs loads also.


HecHacker1 wrote:
my question was about the disk I/O, I used cfq-ts for the scheduler.

:?:

what where you using now, anticipatory or cfq-ts? they are both I/O scheds...


sorry i was confused, i did select the CFQ-TS but I also selected Anticipatory in the Block Devices section. That is my question. What is best for the block devices? In your humble opinion? Or does it not matter.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So fallow, you recommend just using ext3? I'm using JFS right now, should I just stick with it or switch to ext3 + love?

I'll also have a neat logo ready for you tomorrow once I get done with my finals.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but I will do proper testing. maybe I just do implementation of genetics for Ingosched ? ? hehe, just joking


:lol: :lol:

Quote:
Im interested also in swap_scheduling idea which Lovechild introduced me


me too, i saw it a few days ago on lkml. Looks very interesting at least ;) Theres also a patch included in ck to balance nice processes over all cpus, as it looks like the current design is not the best for this. Maybe thats interesting too ...

Quote:
about sched fixes in mm , this is in 90% multiprocessor Nick Piggins fixes


i know, the two boxes im working on right now are smp. Its not a feature for all love users of course but it should not have no side effects on non-smp boxes, am i right ?

abiss, well, i didnt tested that much, and it made my dev box unuseable twice at least ... maybe my fault, time to RTFM a bit more and continue trashing ;)

cheers
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrWoland wrote:
So fallow, you recommend just using ext3? I'm using JFS right now, should I just stick with it or switch to ext3 + love?

I'll also have a neat logo ready for you tomorrow once I get done with my finals.


HM .. main goal is to resign from reiserfs/reiser4 for another fs. If You have JFS and You are feeling good with it , then IMHO no reason to switch to ext3.

about logo nice -> I think I'll add all I have now to next release , and later we'll decide which to select just.

gringo:

about this swap_scheduling . I tested it but I found some interactivity problems . I even see this by "clear eye" , similar results for U ?

about multiprocessor fixes , hm . I'll take a look maybe as additional patch first :) ?

chrisyu wrote:
Could LIRC patch be added in new love-sources?
That would be nice!:)
Thanks.

and You have some working version ? this is first request for it :p :)
I had it in vivid-sources and some my previous love ,but this is not good to maintaining .
really is only kernel-space solution for it , any user-space solution ?
ad additional patch also maybe :) If You have some tested one :)

cheers.
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