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esromneb
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject: notail and reiser4? |
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What exactly does notail do for reiser4? I had notail in my fstab, and then I removed it and my fs got corrupted. I don't know if the corruption was a direct resuly, but is that possible? Thanks.
-ben |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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First, reiser4 (and 3.x also) can store many files into one single cluster. The purpose of tail and notails options are to change between the classic mode and the tailed one. With notail the files are stored in separated spaces, wich makes bigger the space wasted when there are lots of small files, but also make the access to these files a lot faster.
Second, there is no need to use tail to get a hard fs corruption with reiser4, it can do that for itself, my advice: dont use reiser4 until mature. |
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Jake
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Don't use notail with reiser4. It's probably the source of your corruption.
reiser4 should be faster than reiserfs without tails and more space efficient than reiserfs with tails.
| 6thpink wrote: | | ...there is no need to use tail to get a hard fs corruption with reiser4, it can do that for itself, my advice: dont use reiser4 until mature. |
Show me a reproducible bug so I can report it. I try to break reiser4, but I can't anymore, even on AMD64. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Im not gonna talk more about, there are so much topics regarding and this is off of this topic. Just say that 'stable' <> ' working on my machine' but 'working on all machines'. |
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Jake
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| There's something wrong here. You shouldn't even be able to mount reiser4 with the notail option. Are you using the latest reiser4progs and a recent kernel? |
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esromneb
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Uh ya I was, I'm not anymore. I think my fstab was messed up tho. I didn't have a filesystem type, and therefore it thought "notail" was my filesystem type, it errored out on that and just relied on auto-detect and mouted just fine. I *think* that was what was happening. Anyways can't even use mm-sources b/c they break nvidia driver support.
-ben |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Jake wrote: | | There's something wrong here. You shouldn't even be able to mount reiser4 with the notail option. Are you using the latest reiser4progs and a recent kernel? |
+PLUS+
| esromneb wrote: | Uh ya I was..................
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=EQUAL=
Stable thing......................  Every single day I see passing by I love more the Namesys boys  |
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esromneb
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| I don't understand.... |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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I was talking ironically. Since notail is an unsupported option for reiser4 (I really did not know about that, thou...) you should not have been able even to mount it with that option. So, what I wanted to say in my previous post is that is evident that reiser4 is not mature nor stable.
My 'love' for Namesys is also ironicall  |
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Sir No
Apprentice
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| esromneb wrote: | | What exactly does notail do for reiser4? I had notail in my fstab, and then I removed it and my fs got corrupted. I don't know if the corruption was a direct resuly, but is that possible? Thanks. |
+PLUS+
| esromneb wrote: | | I think my fstab was messed up tho. I didn't have a filesystem type, and therefore it thought "notail" was my filesystem type, it errored out on that and just relied on auto-detect and mouted just fine. I *think* that was what was happening. |
=EQUALS=
PEBCAK (*)
So please, sire, don't bash everyone that is testing this fs. And I'm testing reiserfs v4 too, for half of a year already. Didn't have any issues with it so far, plus it speeds up disk operations and makes the disk more quiet. It even survived power outage I had yesterday. Which was not the case with XFS / JFS I was testing also (I remember those writing delays...) That's why I've switched. And you are perfectly right, stating that 'stable' <> ' working on my machine' but 'working on all machines'. But it works for me fine.
(*) Problem Existed Between Chair And Keyboard
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you that somebody has to test it, I tested it also (if I had not tested it I could not talk about it). I know about the jfs issues, because I also tested it, now jfs is a bit more stable (surely reiser4 will someday also be so) but I think that that notail issue is not a silly thing, it's a serius and major bug that is unforgivable, it's only my opinion, of course.
I don't want to flame anybody, each person knows well what is convenient for s/he, I know also.  |
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Jake
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| 6thpink wrote: | | ...I think that that notail issue is not a silly thing, it's a serius and major bug that is unforgivable, it's only my opinion, of course... |
Possibly, but as far as I know, it can't be reproduced (I set my fstab up like esromneb described), and as far as Namesys knows, it doesn't exist. |
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esromneb
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a copy of my fstab, b/c it got destroyed, however I will try to recreate the line I had (once I boot back to gentoo and don't have midterms hanging over my head)
-ben |
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moocha
Watchman
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 5722
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to know about all the mount options that are understood by your version of Reiser4 (they change over time), look at the authoritative source - the actual source code . Every mount option is listed and documented in | Code: | | /usr/src/linux/fs/reiser4/vfs_opts.c |
in the function | Code: | | reiser4_parse_options |
(grep for it, should be around the middle of the file). You don't need to be able to read C code to understand what each option does, since most are documented by comments.
IIRC those are the correct file and function names. Not 100% sure (I don't bother with Reiser4 anymore but I remember playing around with the flush.written_threshold option in order to make it flush more often), but it should be that or something very similar.
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esromneb
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:19 am Post subject: |
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If I remember correctly, it looked something like this:
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/dev/hda3 / notail noatime 0 0
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When the system would start a fsck error would pop up saying "can't find notail.fsck" or something like that.
-ben |
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Jake
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| esromneb wrote: | If I remember correctly, it looked something like this:
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/dev/hda3 / notail noatime 0 0
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When the system would start a fsck error would pop up saying "can't find notail.fsck" or something like that.
-ben |
That's to be expected, but I'm curious what excactly you're calling corruption.
I think you're confused about the meaning of "filesystem corruption". Not being able to access your files with an incorrect configuration is user error, not corruption. If you were to fix your configuration, mount the filesystem, and find random binary data injected into text files, that would qualify as corruption. When people like me read your post, that's what we think happened, and we question the integrity of our data. |
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esromneb
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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No, I was able to mount the system with my fstab like that. The corruption came when rc segfualed everytime I went to runlevel 3 or 6. That of course meant that to restart my computer I had to remount / as ro and then just hit the reset button
-ben |
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Jake
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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init or something in your rc scripts segfaulting is not corruption unless some scripts or binaries were changed by the filesystem. Did you or fsck actually spot any corruption?
The only time I've seen corruption on reiser4 was before the major AMD64 bug was fixed. reiser4 crashed, then after rebooting fsck identified corruption. fsck tried to fix the filesystem, but then when I tried to compile some kernel sources stored on the filesystem, it failed. So I ran "make mrproper" and diffed the m5sums with a known good kernel tree. I eventually tracked down some files that were missing, others that were null, and a few containing random binary data. |
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Gentree
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 5350
Location: France, Old Europe
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| esromneb wrote: | If I remember correctly, it looked something like this:
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/dev/hda3 / notail noatime 0 0
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When the system would start a fsck error would pop up saying "can't find notail.fsck" or something like that.
-ben |
Well if he managed to mount using that the bug is in mount not in the FS !!
If mount went ahead and mounted it as , lets guess ext2 or reiserfs, and the fsck kicked and started "repairing" it I'm not surprised if there were problems. But I certainly would not blame namesys.
More R4 knocking
@esromneb, if you do manage to reproduce what happened I'd be very interested to see just how that got mounted. Thanks for trying to give more details on this.
BTW its /usr/src/linux/fs/reiser4/vfs_ops.c (not opts)
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esromneb
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I didn't mention this, but I'm running amd64 in 32bit mode. Don't know if that has any effect.
Jake: when my rc started segfaulting left and right, I booted with a livecd and indeed fsck detected corruption. Actually now I can't remember weather I fsck'd first and then rc went or the other way around.
To complicate the problem I am running raid0 with dmraid. If you don't know what that is, it's basically software raid that runs through an onboard chip. Sometimes called fakeraid. The only real use is so you can dual boot with xp (so both operating systems use the same striping method and don't corrupt eachother) Can you imagine xp booting from /dev/md0 ???? So I don't know if my using dmraid matters or not, but yeah.
-ben
P.S: I get the feeling that some of you feel like reiser4 is unbreakable, is this true? Why is it still masked then? |
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Gentree
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Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 5350
Location: France, Old Europe
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | P.S: I get the feeling that some of you feel like reiser4 is unbreakable, is this true? Why is it still masked then? |
well you clearly did  You seem to have put together just about everything possibly availible likely to provoke a fs problem.
| Code: | sys-fs/reiser4progs :
[ ] 1.0.1 (0)
[M~ ] 1.0.2 (0)
[ ] 1.0.3 (0)
[M I] 1.0.4 (0)
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So I conclude you were also running 1.0.4 , as you say unstable , rather one of the more tested versions as well as all the other madness and giving it options that are designated for reiserfs and a misconfigured fstab.
Probably not worth filing a bug report on that one.
It has to be said that you were not the one knocking R4 but may I suggest you get a little bit more familiar or perhaps just slow down a bit when trying to boldly go where no man has gone before.
I dont think R4 is infallible , it is still young. But for a humble athlon-XP system over-clocked to hell and on unsupported kernel patch sets I have found it to be very reliable. To the point where I just power-off my system rather than doing a clean shutdown.
For what you are attempting I would recommend ext3.
If you do get all that to work together please post how it can be done . It sounds impressive. 
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Gentree wrote: | Well if he managed to mount using that the bug is in mount not in the FS !! ........ But I certainly would not blame namesys.
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Nope, mount is just an interface to the kernel code that really "mounts" the drive. The reiser4 code by Namesys is which mounts that drive, so the bug is theirs. BTW im no kernel guru, so, if im wrong let me know 
| Gentree wrote: | well you clearly did You seem to have put together just about everything possibly availible likely to provoke a fs problem.
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I don't have time to "provoke a fs problem". when i tried reiser4 it broke, i did not do anything special with it. Im not allied with some people to break reiser4, it just broke and fucked all my data (nothing special, only some university works and some other stuff  ) so i dont like it. Please, forgive me for that. Oh! and forgive also the fstab designers. |
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Gentree
Watchman
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Posts: 5350
Location: France, Old Europe
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | it just broke and fucked all my data (nothing special, only some university works and some other stuff |
which was so unimportant you had no backups at all right?
Now you "hate" R4.
I think this says a lot about why some people get so hot under the collar and vitriollic about R4
| Quote: | | Nope, mount is just an interface to the kernel code that really "mounts" the drive. |
So look back at his post tell me how mount would have called namesys code to mount that drive. As I said earlier it probably mounted it as ext2 and then tried to "correct" the errors.
As the posters freely admits he screwed up on the fstab entry. Why are we even talking about namesys here?
I'm going to cut from this thread before it becomes another (yet another) R4 blah blah. It does not seem to be helping the poster or going anywhere useful.
So .esromneb, if you do succeed your madness please post a new thread about what you manage to do. (and please dont mention arrfor. )
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moocha
Watchman
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Gentree wrote: | | Quote: | | it just broke and fucked all my data (nothing special, only some university works and some other stuff |
which was so unimportant you had no backups at all right?
Now you "hate" R4.
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First, i had backup for almost all the data, I lost 2 days of work. That's not the point, we are not talking about my backup habits. Reiser4 failed, period. Some other fs's also fails, but never that hard (except fat32, of course).
Also, i don't hate reiser4, i dont hate namesys. Maybe actually the thing has become better, i dont know, nor mind at all. I dont like it, but I could hardly hate namesys if I dont even feel hate for the monopolist behaviour of M$. I dont move on hate, i like peace, flowers & pink floyd. If I gave you any other impression im sorry, i dont want to start any war here. Sorry. |
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