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yngwin
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Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4219
Location: Suzhou, China
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 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| transienteagle wrote: | | nano, nothing wrong with it (imho) |
The only thing that's wrong with nano from my point of view is that it doesn't know utf-8. I have some pages on a Gentoo server that I really want to be served as utf-8, but a quick edit with nano on them is a headache...
Guess I have to learn vim after all.
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jdgill0
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Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Location: Lexington, Ky -- USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Well, one GOOD reason for using VIM is its great keywork highlighting ability, especially highlighting for portage, i.e. app-vim/gentoo-syntax. For example, VIM does a great job of highlighting /etc/make.conf. Such highlighting tremendously helps to eliminate the stupid spelling mistakes, which can waste hours of your time.
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Vim has excellent syntax highlighting for configuration files: emerge gentoo-syntax
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kimchi_sg
Advocate
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2915
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| jdgill0 wrote: | | Well, one GOOD reason for using VIM is its great keywork highlighting ability, especially highlighting for portage, i.e. app-vim/gentoo-syntax. For example, VIM does a great job of highlighting /etc/make.conf. Such highlighting tremendously helps to eliminate the stupid spelling mistakes, which can waste hours of your time. |
For that, please thank the dev who has been replying to so many posts in this thread. He's the one giving vim and friends lots of TLC. 
P.S. @That dev: Thanks for vim's auto-highlighting of dangerous options in make.conf. 
EDIT: You mentioned on your devspace that vim has a ebuild generator. What's the command to enable it?
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Last edited by kimchi_sg on Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Very much agreed.
Thank you, Ciaran!!
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jdgill0
Veteran
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Location: Lexington, Ky -- USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Indeed, THANKS CIARANM ... GREAT JOB 
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Vim has excellent syntax highlighting for configuration files: emerge gentoo-syntax
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shazow
Apprentice
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 168
Location: Canada, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: |
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To be fair, nano does context highlighting, too. :-) (Guide here)
I prefer nano for quick, simple edits.
- shazow |
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dirtyepic
Developer
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: sk.ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | P.S. @That dev: Thanks for vim's auto-highlighting of dangerous options in make.conf. |
LDFLAGS is not dangerous!!!11
| Quote: | | EDIT: You mentioned on your devspace that vim has a ebuild generator. What's the command to enable it? |
i was wondering about that myself.
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | EDIT: You mentioned on your devspace that vim has a ebuild generator. What's the command to enable it? |
vim foo-1.23.ebuild , where said ebuild does not already exist. |
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voidengineer
n00b
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: LOL |
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| solomonHk wrote: | | Gotta love the people skills some gentoo devs have. :wink: Small winky syndrom to the nth degree. :wink: |
Ok like WTF! If I wasn't working so hard on my using _foul_ words, i'd certainly have a few to say here. So in that regard I will say; that YOU need to learn your place in the food chain B.
| Gentree wrote: | Jeezus , what is the matter with you lot ?
You have one of the top Gentoo devs giving you full, clear and concise explainations that you dont read, contradict and then ask the same damn qu that was fully explained two posts earlier.
I am surprised anyone bothers to reply to such dumb posts
Anyway I'm off to read the doc on using vim , I have it on good authority that my dick will get bigger. :P |
Totally! LOL
About the dick thing; it is so true. I can honestly say that with Vim I'm "Living large and Lauging easy" ^_^
voidengineer |
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Amaranatha
n00b
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 48
Location: Spain, Europe
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | Any recommendations for a good console editor like nano, but that can handle utf-8?
I don't like vi - too complicated for my taste. |
Nano-1.3.6 (~x86) can handle utf-8. |
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jamesdick628
Apprentice
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 158
Location: Worcester, MA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| shazow wrote: | To be fair, nano does context highlighting, too. :-) (Guide here)
I prefer nano for quick, simple edits.
- shazow |
I never understand it when people say this. How is nano better for quick edits than vim. Everyone is always saying that vim is the fastest editor but then say that nano is better for quick edits. Can you tell me how the fastest editor is somehow slower for quick edits? I know that when I have to use nano (on a new install when vim hasn't been installed yet) I cringe at the thought of it. Vim is much faster and easier to use. I hate having to move to the arrow keys to move around the text file. |
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kimchi_sg
Advocate
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesdick628 wrote: | | I never understand it when people say this. How is nano better for quick edits than vim. |
Especially when it can't kill 1 line in 2 keystrokes, or up to 9 lines in 3 keystrokes - regardless of line length. 
| jamesdick628 wrote: | | I know that when I have to use nano (on a new install when vim hasn't been installed yet) I cringe at the thought of it. |
Cringe no more! Just switch to another console, outside of the chroot, and vim is still available to you.
All the same, I wish that vim would be included in stage{1, 2, 3} tarballs. Perhaps compiled with USE=minimal or USE=livecd, or both. ciaranm... ?
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | All the same, I wish that vim would be included in stage{1, 2, 3} tarballs. Perhaps compiled with USE=minimal or USE=livecd, or both. ciaranm... ? |
Not my decision. You'll need to persuade individual arch leads to switch the default virtual/editor to vim. |
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | kimchi_sg wrote: | | All the same, I wish that vim would be included in stage{1, 2, 3} tarballs. Perhaps compiled with USE=minimal or USE=livecd, or both. ciaranm... ? |
Not my decision. You'll need to persuade individual arch leads to switch the default virtual/editor to vim. |
I don't think I stand a chance against them. Thinking from the n00b point of view, nano is easy to use. Like Windows notepad. 
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slackthumbz
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Have to agree with many of the previous posters that vim is the best editor by far and does indeed encourage penis growth for the under achievers out there, many a time have I accidentally tried to use vim during a gentoo installation only to be cruelly reminded a second later (by bash) that the command does not yet exist on that system... I do ALL my coding on VIM and GVIM. Tis a wonder to behold such beautiful syntax highlighting and the simplicity of style in VIM is not difficult to appreciate. I see a few people claiming that VIM is complicated, how complicated is it to press 'i' and then start typing? ESC is not that hard a key to find and you only really have to know about 4 commands to use VIM effectively as a decent text editor. If you prefer something with a grapchical frontend then emerge gvim! I find aspects of nano annoying but that is merely a matter of preference (I thought I'd post in support of vim as an editor, not to rubbish nano)... anyway, VIM forever and peace or something hippyish like that. |
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shazow
Apprentice
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 168
Location: Canada, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesdick628 wrote: | | I never understand it when people say this. How is nano better for quick edits than vim. Everyone is always saying that vim is the fastest editor but then say that nano is better for quick edits. Can you tell me how the fastest editor is somehow slower for quick edits? I know that when I have to use nano (on a new install when vim hasn't been installed yet) I cringe at the thought of it. Vim is much faster and easier to use. I hate having to move to the arrow keys to move around the text file. |
Firstly, let me say that I completely agree that using vim = larger penis, and all that.
That said, I'll try and explain my preference. Here's why I prefer nano:
+ You can use CTRL+k to move (or delete) a whole line. Hit it multiple times for multiple limes, or hold it.
- Yes, vim has dd, but I think it's easier to quickly hit CTRL+k a couple of times than to type dd and then think the number of lines you want to remove, then append the number, then... etc. For more complex situations, vim wins hands down. I'm just talking about simple, quick situations.
+ Now, once you CTRL+k a couple of lines, you can paste them elsewhere using CTRL+k. Very handy for quickly moving some lines.
- I'm sure you can do that with vim somehow, please enlighten me how if someone knows.
+ The REAL thing I like nano for is the saving. CTRL+k for save, CTRL+x for exit (and prompt for save).
- I find that the 2-key shortcuts are much easier than typing ESC :w or ESC :q, etc. That : really turns me off. Now, I've read that you can somehow bind keys in vim, even to CTRL+? and whatever. I've never been able to successfully bind :w to CTRL+o for example. If someone could enlighten me on this subject, I would greatly appreciate it (and probably use vim more, thus my penis would grow, and everybody will be happy).
I don't know if it's just me, but nano also feels more lightweight. But yeah, it's all those little things like having to hit i to start editing, and then having to hit ESC before issuing a command with at least two characters, plus hitting enter. Like say I have to change one character or word in the file. I have to hit i, change it, hit ESC, hit : then hit w, then hit enter. For nano, I just launch it, change it, ctrl+x, y.
But as I said above, I'm still learning how to use vim proficiently, but I'm sure people would agree with me that the learning curve is a bit steep. (Which I guess is where it gets its penis-value from.)
Given that you can bind keys in vim (should I ever figure out how the hell you do it), you could bind all of nano's functions to vim's equivilents and make it at least as good. Also, is there a way to make it start in insert mode by default? Update: After trying it, it seems that vim DOES go into insert mode if it doesn't detect you typing a command...
P.S.
To be on topic a bit: If all else fails, maybe you could unmerge nano and add it to /etc/portage/profile/package.provided so that portage wont bug you about it? Not a fix, but a workaround... Still something to consider if it's really bugging you that much.
- shazow |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| shazow wrote: | That said, I'll try and explain my preference. Here's why I prefer nano:
+ You can use CTRL+k to move (or delete) a whole line. Hit it multiple times for multiple limes, or hold it.
- Yes, vim has dd, but I think it's easier to quickly hit CTRL+k a couple of times than to type dd and then think the number of lines you want to remove, then append the number, then... etc. For more complex situations, vim wins hands down. I'm just talking about simple, quick situations.
+ Now, once you CTRL+k a couple of lines, you can paste them elsewhere using CTRL+k. Very handy for quickly moving some lines.
- I'm sure you can do that with vim somehow, please enlighten me how if someone knows.
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p or P
| Quote: | + The REAL thing I like nano for is the saving. CTRL+k for save, CTRL+x for exit (and prompt for save).
- I find that the 2-key shortcuts are much easier than typing ESC :w or ESC :q, etc. That : really turns me off. Now, I've read that you can somehow bind keys in vim, even to CTRL+? and whatever. I've never been able to successfully bind :w to CTRL+o for example. If someone could enlighten me on this subject, I would greatly appreciate it (and probably use vim more, thus my penis would grow, and everybody will be happy). |
:nmap <C-o> :w<CR>
Note that this nukes the usual <C-o> normal-mode command, which is extremely useful. You might be better using other keys (<M-o> is unmapped if your terminal / GUI supports it) for that kind of shortcut.
| Quote: | | I don't know if it's just me, but nano also feels more lightweight. But yeah, it's all those little things like having to hit i to start editing, and then having to hit ESC before issuing a command with at least two characters, plus hitting enter. Like say I have to change one character or word in the file. I have to hit i (or d), change it, hit ESC, hit : then hit w, then hit enter. For nano, I just launch it, change it, ctrl+x, y. |
Change one character to x: rx
Change one word to foo: cwfoo |
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shazow
Apprentice
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 168
Location: Canada, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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ciaranm: Ah, thank you very much! I'll give it a shot.
- shazow |
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kimchi_sg
Advocate
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2915
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Don't forget "xp" , it will transpose (switch) 2 consecutive characters.
Although I wish they wouldn't remind us of Redmond's cutie OS this way.
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killfire
l33t
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 618
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | Don't forget "xp" , it will transpose (switch) 2 consecutive characters.
Although I wish they wouldn't remind us of Redmond's cutie OS this way. |
dont quote me on this (because honestly i dont know) but i bet that it was around before redmonds "cutie os" (which imho is an ugly POS anyway....)
killfire
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kimchi_sg
Advocate
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Posts: 2915
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| killfire wrote: | | kimchi_sg wrote: | Don't forget "xp" , it will transpose (switch) 2 consecutive characters.
Although I wish they wouldn't remind us of Redmond's cutie OS this way. |
dont quote me on this (because honestly i dont know) but i bet that it was around before redmonds "cutie os" (which imho is an ugly POS anyway....) |
I know the shortcut was around much longer than MS, but just liked to point out that it's easy to remember, maybe because of the MS "connection". 
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: |
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(^_^)
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yngwin
Developer
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4219
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesdick628 wrote: | | shazow wrote: | | I prefer nano for quick, simple edits. |
I never understand it when people say this. How is nano better for quick edits than vim. |
Because nano has a more intuitive and user friendly interface - vim doesn't. The learning curve for vim is higher. Once you've learned it it may be quicker. I still have to find out, 'cos I didn't want to make the effort so far. And my dick size is good enough as it is, so I haven't needed it...
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | | jamesdick628 wrote: | | shazow wrote: | | I prefer nano for quick, simple edits. |
I never understand it when people say this. How is nano better for quick edits than vim. |
Because nano has a more intuitive and user friendly interface - vim doesn't. The learning curve for vim is higher. Once you've learned it it may be quicker. I still have to find out, 'cos I didn't want to make the effort so far. And my dick size is good enough as it is, so I haven't needed it... |
The only 'intuitive' interface is the nipple. Everything else, you learn. |
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codergeek42
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Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | | Because nano has a more intuitive and user friendly interface - vim doesn't. The learning curve for vim is higher. Once you've learned it it may be quicker. I still have to find out, 'cos I didn't want to make the effort so far. And my dick size is good enough as it is, so I haven't needed it... |
"Intuitive" is a highly subjective term. For example, I find a command line interface to be quite intuititive: I tell the computer to do something and it does it and gives me any output created.
Does Vim have a steeper learning curve? Yes.
Is it "intuitive"? Probably not at first.
Is it much more powerful? Heck yes.
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