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fu.
n00b
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 21
Location: over:here:over:there
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 Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: Suggestion: Create a Lean+Mean Install Guide for Newbies ? |
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Greetings everyone!
As a newbie on the Gentoo/Linux game i have a hard time installing + running Gentoo on PPC. As I'm searching high+low the forums for certain major/minor installation steps, it has become clear that the PPC Installation Guide is OK for everyone but newbies.
So here's my suggestion: Could a couple of the wizzards of this forum make a quick installation guide for newbies on mind? I mean a 2004.3 Universal LiveCD or something, so that newbies get a chance to download the CD and proceed with general kernels and all, and at least get a chance to run Gentoo on their machines before they start exploring the world of linux.
Here's some inconsistencies I'm talkking about:
| Quote: | 4.b. Designing a Partitioning Scheme
Default Partitioning Scheme
If you are not interested in drawing up a partitioning scheme for your system, you can use the partitioning scheme we use throughout this book:
Partition NewWorld Partition OldWorld Partition Pegasos Filesystem Size Description
/dev/hda1 /dev/hda1 (Not applicable) (Partition Map) 32k Apple_partition_map
/dev/hda2 (Not needed) (Not applicable) (bootstrap) 800k Apple_Bootstrap
/dev/hda3 /dev/hda2 /dev/hda1 (swap) 512M Swap partition
/dev/hda4 /dev/hda3 /dev/hda2 ext3 Rest of the disk Root partition |
so a noob is following this simple scheme, creates a boot, swap and root partition on his/her HD, and then later on:
| Quote: | 4.f. Mounting
Now that your partitions are initialized and are housing a filesystem, it is time to mount those partitions. Use the mount command. Don't forget to create the necessary mount directories for every partition you created. As an example we create a mount-point and mount the root partition:
Code Listing 6: Mounting partitions
# mkdir /mnt/gentoo
# mount /dev/hda4 /mnt/gentoo |
Now the newbie guide should just list all the mount commands for the default schemes mentioned in section 4.b.
And whether it should be mount, mount -t, or mount --bind or whatever is the correct command for the LiveCD general installation.
So we can skip extra posts about the same installation issues on the forums like this one:
| Quote: | I tried to install gentoo on my ibook from the live 2004.3 cd.
The handbook on the cd is not correct now and then
- mount -o bind doesnt work --> i replaced with mount --bind |
So again, I think a 20 (or whatever the number is) step cookbook approach is what we're missing here, with no options like manual kernel configuration, just the "follow these steps kid, get your machine up & runnin', and if u like it then start reading how to tweak and make it better" style.
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oschade
n00b
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
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The main idea of Gentoo is to leave the choice to the user. It's your choice, how the system is built and this especially includes the kernel. Unfortunately, genkernel doesn't seem to work on ppc, but it's a nice tool to come to a dumb kernel, which can be tweaked later. This is probably, what you wanted...
IMHO, Gentoo installation is a bit too much for a Linux newbie, but with some help for beginning, it's the greatest opportunity to learn about the penguin.
But you're right - the installation manual needs some polishing... Feel free to...  |
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pindar
Apprentice
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think having a "leaner" manual would be a good idea. Remember that even in the limited PPC area, there's any number of machines that people are installing gentoo on. Unless you want to have a manual for every single one of them (with any number of graphic & sound cards, disks, optical drives, network cards etc.), you will have to include many sections with options anyway. And remember that users come in different models, too. Somebody may be a n00b for gentoo linux but may have quite some experience with other linux distros, or even with the UNIX aspect of OS X. What is unnecessary, confusing or too wordy for user A might be just what user B needs. I think the handbook is excellent and wouldn't want to change it. Just my $ 0.02. If, however, you were to just summarize your own experience and say "these 20 steps got me up and running," that could be something useful; everybody could decide themselves if they find it interesting or not. |
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fu.
n00b
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 21
Location: over:here:over:there
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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couldn't agree less oschade...
and it's for gentoo's philosophy (everything should be left to user's choice) that made me wanna give it a try..
i wish i could write such a guide, but for now i'm still learning the basics...however if i could help with the documentation at any point i will ...
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oschade
n00b
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| So far, you could send the inconsistencies you found with a few more explanations to Sven Vermeulen <swift@gentoo.org>, the doc project leader. I guess, this could already be very helpful... |
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oracle_ab
n00b
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 5
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| oschade wrote: | The main idea of Gentoo is to leave the choice to the user. It's your choice, how the system is built and this especially includes the kernel. Unfortunately, genkernel doesn't seem to work on ppc, but it's a nice tool to come to a dumb kernel, which can be tweaked later. This is probably, what you wanted...
IMHO, Gentoo installation is a bit too much for a Linux newbie, but with some help for beginning, it's the greatest opportunity to learn about the penguin.
But you're right - the installation manual needs some polishing... Feel free to... |
I think you're missing the point here. I, too, have tried in 48 hours to install Gentoo PPC on my iMac and got stumped at the same point as the original poster. I'm new to Linux, so I didn't know bout the "--bind" option, so have given up for now (no time to devote to try another install 'til the coming weekend). In your later reply about submitting inconsistancies.... That's fine, too, but still, there's stuff that doesn't make sense in the Handbook that should've been caught outright. Another inconsistancy is that the Handbook states to use the "mount" command.... The first thing to do is: "mkdir /mnt/gentoo" but if you're using the LiveCD, that command at the prompt returns something to the effect of "cannot make directory; directory already exists." Then you mount it.... But you mount it to your root partition even though you never created it because it already exists? Also, to what, if anything are you to mount for the /boot partition? Are you to create a mount-point for the /boot partition? Is it: mount /dev/hdaX /boot?! I don't mean to be mean, sound rude or anything (although I'm sure I do -- not that I intend to....), I'm just a bit flustered by reaching the same point twice and getting stuck each time. I'll have to say I totally agree w/ the orig poster on this and second the idea of having a newbie handbook (or at least correct the current one). It's my interpretation and understanding that the orig poster wasn't talking about how you want to install, but basically that the install (no matter how you do it if you're following the Handbook) never works because of that particular --bind step that's incorrect.
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Aaron |
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oracle_ab
n00b
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 5
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| fu. wrote: | couldn't agree less oschade...
and it's for gentoo's philosophy (everything should be left to user's choice) that made me wanna give it a try..
i wish i could write such a guide, but for now i'm still learning the basics...however if i could help with the documentation at any point i will ... |
I agree here, too. Of the distro's I've tried in the past (still, being new to Linux) -- YellowDog, Mandrake and Debian -- I found neither of them satisfying to my taste. I discovered Gentoo (quite a while ago), but never had the time to really try it out. I want my install to work and I'd love to give it a whirl on my iMac. I'll take the other advice to submit corrections to the Handbook author, and I'll definitely frequent the (newly discovered on my part) Gentoo PPC forums. Nice to see a forum dedicated to PPC.
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fu.
n00b
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 21
Location: over:here:over:there
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:40 am Post subject: |
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welcome 2 the club Aaron  ,
glad to see that another newbie got the point of my post...well if you keep trying to install Gentoo, you'll probably be searching theses forums high+low for clarifications + additional instructions. and that's what i was talking about in the first place: instead of searching the forums and bore advanced users to death by posting the same "HELP about xxxyyyzzz" topics, let's have the lean+mean guide
anyway if you're still stuck @ the mounting instructions and you're using the default (handbook) partition scheme these are the correct commands:
| Code: | mount /dev/hda4* /mnt/gentoo
mkdir /mnt/gentoo/proc
mount -t proc none /mnt/gentoo/proc
mkdir /mnt/gentoo/dev
mount -o bind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
*: /dev/hda4 is the root partition according to the default partition scheme on the 2004.3 installation guide |
i'm close to finish the installation on my Pismo PowerBook, when i'm done i'll post a simple step-by-step installation that worked for me. don't hesitate to pm me if u get stuck at any point...
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rwgeorge
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 87
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana - USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:53 am Post subject: |
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I'm not really a n00b anymore, and have a awesome understanding of mounting, partition schemes, and some of the other things that have hung you all up...yet I just posted a message abot how bad the ppc handbook is. For me, the lack of documentation on how to use different filesystems correctly, and how to successfully have a separate boot partition, and how to successfully dual-boot, are what bothered me the most (except for the fact that the instructions were not written for ppc, but instead were a bastardized version of the x86 iunstructions). I agree starting over builds character, but I'm at the point where I am tired of startign over. I have enough character from my current install attmpt alone to be a one man play.
Best,
Bob |
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fu.
n00b
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 21
Location: over:here:over:there
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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It's nice to get some feedback from all of you boys or girls. I posted this thread cause I've been wondering about how newbies are finding the path to a successfull installation. From my personal experience and your feedback I see it's quite rough..
So if I re-cap here's the situation so far:
a) The PPC documentation is not for newbies;
b) Newbies following the PPC installation guide (and probably a version of the LiveCD in order to try the OS faster) are getting stuck at some point and start posting "Help with "xxx yyy zzz" at the forums;
c) Threads of this nature are multiplied exponentially making experienced/advanced users give an answer in the form of code/command in order (for the newbie) to pass to the next step;
b) & c) are in constant loop for every user getting stuck at any point of the installation process, filling the forum with similar (if not identical) threads about installation steps...
...which makes me wonder if this is any good in any way. I mean most newbies are here to try a new OS, they're not here to tweak/hack/enhance kernels and .conf files...
Sure "knowledge is king", but knowledge comes in stages, takes time and probaly a good precise manual...
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groen
n00b
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:33 am Post subject: |
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The joys of PPC Linux ..... or not
Not always very easy but I think that is the main reason why I chose it
Anymoo, I have to agree that the handbook is not for very green newbies, but hey, there is always the Forum, I got a LOT of help from people.
A lot of problems can be solved with a good kernel config and the correct modules, go have a look at this site http://ppcconfdb.sourceforge.net/ you should be able to get a good kernel config there.
groen
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