Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
excuse for not using Linux
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ee99ee2
Guru
Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 307
Location: Murfreesboro, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:19 am    Post subject: excuse for not using Linux Reply with quote

I work for a pro-microsoft company. Here's the excuses I've heard:

- "If we put Linux on here, and I'm not here, no one else will know how to do things on them if they break."

- "But we use ASP."

- "What's that?"


You know, maybe if they used Linux/UNIX, they wouldn't be fixing things just "just break"....

-ee99ee2
_________________
ServerMotion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gsfgf
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 1266

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is an Apache::ASP module. It seems to work fine except when i used it (Late 2000) it gave no useful debugging info. That may have changed since then.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
S_aIN_t
Guru
Guru


Joined: 11 May 2002
Posts: 488
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: excuse for not using Linux Reply with quote

ee99ee2 wrote:
I work for a pro-microsoft company. Here's the excuses I've heard:

- "If we put Linux on here, and I'm not here, no one else will know how to do things on them if they break."

- "But we use ASP."

- "What's that?"


You know, maybe if they used Linux/UNIX, they wouldn't be fixing things just "just break"....

-ee99ee2


i heard the first one quite a few times. the other ones are not that big of a problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
delta407
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 2876
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: excuse for not using Linux Reply with quote

ee99ee2 wrote:
You know, maybe if they used Linux/UNIX, they wouldn't be fixing things just "just break"....
Amen. I've seen Exchange set itself on fire for no apparent reason -- no log entries, no trace files, no warning -- and just die. I've seen IIS up and decide it won't serve web pages unless I disable and re-enable the network interface. And I've seen far too many things break after a reboot only to be solved by rebooting again.

Gentoo, on the other hand, only breaks when I know I'm doing something that will break it, like running gentoo-sources for instance. ;) But even then I have information I can use to investigate the issue, rather than noticing that the Exchange MTA stacks service has stopped inexplicably.
_________________
I don't believe in witty sigs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nbg
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lack of a decent directory service is my excuse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
really
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats that nbg?
_________________
NoManNoProblem

Get lost before you get shot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nbg
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?


It's well, a directory service :)

Think of Microsoft Active Directory or Novell Netware. Linux has NIS, but it's too insecure to be useful in anything more than a lab or home environment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ee99ee2
Guru
Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 307
Location: Murfreesboro, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LDAP?

-ee99ee2
_________________
ServerMotion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jlg
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 360
Location: Montreal, CANADA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one of my favorite is:

Linux is not ready for the desktop because its not 100% compatible with windows.

LOL!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
klieber
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 3657
Location: San Francisco, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nbg wrote:
The lack of a decent directory service is my excuse.

And a piss-poor one, at that. :)

http://www.openldap.org/

--kurt
_________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
really
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nbg wrote:
anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?


It's well, a directory service :)

Think of Microsoft Active Directory or Novell Netware. Linux has NIS, but it's too insecure to be useful in anything more than a lab or home environment.
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!
_________________
NoManNoProblem

Get lost before you get shot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nbg
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthos wrote:
nbg wrote:
anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?


It's well, a directory service :)

Think of Microsoft Active Directory or Novell Netware. Linux has NIS, but it's too insecure to be useful in anything more than a lab or home environment.
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!


NIS doesn't even require hacking. Just run a sniffer, and you should have plenty of passwords in minutes. It's amazing how an OS where security isn't merely an afterthought can have such a crappy directory service.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
really
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nbg wrote:
anthos wrote:
nbg wrote:
anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?


It's well, a directory service :)

Think of Microsoft Active Directory or Novell Netware. Linux has NIS, but it's too insecure to be useful in anything more than a lab or home environment.
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!


NIS doesn't even require hacking. Just run a sniffer, and you should have plenty of passwords in minutes. It's amazing how an OS where security isn't merely an afterthought can have such a crappy directory service.
well dont use nis then, as many suggested openldap .
_________________
NoManNoProblem

Get lost before you get shot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dreamsofxion
n00b
n00b


Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 37
Location: Memphis, TN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthos wrote:
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!


Well, as a former assistant Novell admin, I can vouch that if set up properly, Novell Netware is probably the most stable, robust, and secure non-UNIX-esque server OS.

Unfortunately, due to the growth of Windows 2000 in the server environment, properly trained and knowledgable Netware admins are becoming more and more difficult to find...

...but, then, even Windows 2000 can be locked down and stripped to a minimalistic state that provides a very good degree of stability...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nbg
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthos wrote:
nbg wrote:
anthos wrote:
nbg wrote:
anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?


It's well, a directory service :)

Think of Microsoft Active Directory or Novell Netware. Linux has NIS, but it's too insecure to be useful in anything more than a lab or home environment.
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!


NIS doesn't even require hacking. Just run a sniffer, and you should have plenty of passwords in minutes. It's amazing how an OS where security isn't merely an afterthought can have such a crappy directory service.
well dont use nis then, as many suggested openldap .


In order to get the equivalent functionality out of OpenLDAP that you would with Active Directory (assuming that at least some of your clients are Windows), you need to tack on Kerberos, Samba, NTPD, and BIND. For medium-sized to large networks, this can quickly become unmanageable, particularly if you have to give some basic administration rights to underlings. The only way it would work in a business environment is if I was the only one managing the directory, or if there were tools that combined administration of the needed servers so a PHB could use it without his eyes glazing over. AFAIK (I could be wrong), no such tools exist, at least not freely.

I may set up such a system on my personal network to get some hands-on experience with it, but I can't see myself using it for anything else other than a fun lab exercise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
klieber
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 3657
Location: San Francisco, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nbg wrote:
In order to get the equivalent functionality out of OpenLDAP that you would with Active Directory (assuming that at least some of your clients are Windows), you need to tack on Kerberos, Samba, NTPD, and BIND.

Well, that's simply the Windows philosophy (one big, monolithic program) vs. the UNIX way (bunch of small, specialized programs that interoperate)

nbg wrote:
For medium-sized to large networks, this can quickly become unmanageable, particularly if you have to give some basic administration rights to underlings.

Simply not true.

nbg wrote:
The only way it would work in a business environment is if I was the only one managing the directory, or if there were tools that combined administration of the needed servers so a PHB could use it without his eyes glazing over.

Again, simply not true. I work for a Fortune 50 company that relies heavily upon LDAP (commericial, not Open) and has it integrated fully with their kerberized infrastructure. NIS maps, DNS information and pretty much anything else can be stored and/or updated in LDAP. Management is easy and very scalable. Just because a management tool isn't available as an MMC plugin doesn't mean it's difficult to use.

--kurt
_________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iancognito85
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 283
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!


how old are you anthos? you still at high school?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
really
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

offie wrote:
anthos wrote:
whats that nbg?
i dont know what " Microsoft Active Directory" is, but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it! :)
pfft "insecure".. then you should use Novell Netware.. Thats insecure!


how old are you anthos? you still at high school?
why you wonder?
im 17 and soon to be 18, more precisly on the 29th in 22 days from now.
im at the "gymnasium" as its called in sweden, second grade.
with Sociology as program.
_________________
NoManNoProblem

Get lost before you get shot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ee99ee2
Guru
Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 307
Location: Murfreesboro, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to remind you all of something. A school never has people in IS/IT who know ANYTHING.... EVER.... PERIOD... (at least in my experence)....

-ee99ee2
_________________
ServerMotion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
idl
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 1728
Location: Nottingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
but i have heard of "Novell Netware"... thats the thing my school uses. haha come on! even _i_ hacked it!


hehe, I hacked my school network when i was 14 - they where using Novell Netware, I think most people at my school could have accidently hacked that server! 8O
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doug-x07
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 122
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once heard a good one from an it director of a financial services company. He basically said that if we used linux (debian) instead of hp-ux, solaris or NT that would mean that whenever something broke or crashed he would be directly accountable and responsible for it. With proprietrary stuff he could just say it's an nt/solaris/hp-ux problem whenever they came across a particularly nasty problem and the company are looking into it. A case of pass the buck to the editor and let them take the flak, that's what they are paid for. That way the decision makers are happy, the editors get more work, nobody is ultimately responsible and nothing gets solved.
_________________
#! /usr/bin/perl
if( @first != $succeed ) {
post { $question->forum && eval '$answers' };
try { $again } catch { $problem && $resolve };
bless $posters; }
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vancouverite
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 162
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of directory services, has anyone here tried Novell's eDirectory for linux? (in a production environment or something similar). I've worked with Novell servers for quite a while and know they can be very secure and massively scalable if properly configured. They deliver file and print services like a trooper. There is all the weirdo windows problems... something stops working for some reason, you get it fixed but what went wrong is a great mystery.. maybe solar activity? Intense neutrino bombardment? Uranus rising during the age of aquarius? :D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
really
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vancouverite wrote:
Speaking of directory services, has anyone here tried Novell's eDirectory for linux? (in a production environment or something similar). I've worked with Novell servers for quite a while and know they can be very secure and massively scalable if properly configured. They deliver file and print services like a trooper. There is all the weirdo windows problems... something stops working for some reason, you get it fixed but what went wrong is a great mystery.. maybe solar activity? Intense neutrino bombardment? Uranus rising during the age of aquarius? :D
hehe. thats one of the reasons why i switched to linux. it made me paranoid "what if they are watching me? i was just about to this and that and then where the fuck did that came from, they are trying to stop me!" :|
_________________
NoManNoProblem

Get lost before you get shot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Can O' Beans
n00b
n00b


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have 2-3 people here at work that know Unix/Solaris. I asked one of them what they thought about Linux/Open Source in our workplace and the excuse he thought the IT dept felt was that of the Open Source aspect. They would need someone knowledgeable enough to examine each & every piece of source code to make sure no backdoors, etc.. were in it.

<shrug> THey just love wasting money on Windows licenses here. We got a "network" PC that just site there and pings 6 toublesome routers to make sure they're up (will be replaced someday.... :roll: ) They paid for another license just to have 6 dos windows up, pinging the routers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
taskara
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3763
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found that most companies use calander sharing....

is there a linux equivilent ?

linux can serve files, printers, internet, act as a firewall, and webserver, and others.. but this one thing I haven't found a solution for..
_________________
Kororaa install method - have Gentoo up and running quickly and easily, fully automated with an installer!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum