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Uranus Guru

Joined: 07 May 2002 Posts: 438 Location: Portugal, Braga
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 12:54 am Post subject: C, C++ or C#? |
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| hey all, here's the deal, I have about a year of C experience, and I am gonna code some software for linux mainly, but I need it to work in Windows too... anyway, which programming language would you recommend (from the ones in the subject)... if I go with C, I cannot use wxWindows. I could go with C++ and wxWindows... yeah yeah I know about the GTK port for win32, it's not bad, but I also want to know what u guys think of C#? Maybe I should be wasting my time learning C# since it's the next inevitable language? Would you guys recommend it for GUI programming? does a compiled C# program need any weird libraries? |
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pilla Administrator


Joined: 07 Aug 2002 Posts: 7192 Location: Pelotas, BR
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 4:03 am Post subject: |
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I think that OTW is a better forum. Moving to it. _________________ "I'm just very selective about the reality I choose to accept." -- Calvin |
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phong Bodhisattva


Joined: 16 Jul 2002 Posts: 778 Location: Michigan - 15 & Ryan
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 5:14 am Post subject: |
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C# is hideously entangled with MS IP issues and proprietaryness at the moment... C++ is going to be the most "available." Also, you may want to look at Objective C, which I haven't tried myself, but have heard good things about (apparently it's the best, most reasoned effort at making OO C). _________________ "An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head."
-- Eric Hoffer |
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taskara Advocate

Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 3763 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I'd go C++, especially if you intend on programming apps for linux.. that or java  _________________ Kororaa install method - have Gentoo up and running quickly and easily, fully automated with an installer! |
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bos_mindwarp Apprentice


Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 275 Location: stockholm, sweden
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:05 am Post subject: |
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As I understand you want to write portable applications with GUI.
You could try out Borland Kylix 3.0, it should work on both OS's and Borland makes some nice tools (their compilers were way ahead microsoft's). It is easy to start with, and building nice GUI's is best so far on windows. So C++ there.
C# is not an option, for linux anyway.
C is not really a problem, since C++ is superset of C (which means you can do almost anything "C-ish" in a C++ program. Almost.)
Do NOT use Java is my personal advice. Java is good for prototyping, bad for production code. |
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ebrostig Bodhisattva


Joined: 20 Jul 2002 Posts: 3152 Location: Orlando, Fl
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bos_mindwarp wrote: |
Do NOT use Java is my personal advice. Java is good for prototyping, bad for production code. |
Can you explain why it is bad for production code?
As far as I know there are a lot of Java based production systems out there. We are running a few ourselves internally and they work as a charm, so I really don;t understand your comment. Is it just a personal view or is it based on real-life experience?
As with any decision regarding programming language, the goal needs to be evaluated. Not everything is benefitting from beeing written in C (or C++ for that matter). Choice of language needs to be based on the goals of the project, not on what langauge is "better"
Erik _________________ 'Yes, Firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.' |
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gsfgf Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2002 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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C++. It's all you need. _________________ Aim:gsfgf0 |
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Uranus Guru

Joined: 07 May 2002 Posts: 438 Location: Portugal, Braga
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I guess I'll start learning C++ then... since I have a bit of C experience I imagine it can't be that hard... do u guys have any references for me? online tutorials? (not books cause I live in Portugal and don't have a CC to buy online ) |
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broschi Apprentice


Joined: 20 Aug 2002 Posts: 189 Location: Atlantide
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:46 am Post subject: |
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I've never done C++ but according to this guy C and C++ are two completely different schools of thoughts and one should invest itself in either one or the other. In other words, C is to C++ what a cow is to C++.  _________________ "Is this type of thing going to happen every time we switch to improbability drive?" "Very probably I'm afraid." |
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BigRedDot n00b


Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 67 Location: Austin
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Yes. Well written, idiomatic C++ code looks nothing like well written, idiomatic C code. Knowing C very well will not make you a good C++ programmer, nor vice versa. _________________ Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6000 people just like you. |
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UnderDog138 n00b

Joined: 03 Dec 2002 Posts: 67 Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| ebrostig wrote: | | bos_mindwarp wrote: |
Do NOT use Java is my personal advice. Java is good for prototyping, bad for production code. |
Can you explain why it is bad for production code?
As far as I know there are a lot of Java based production systems out there. We are running a few ourselves internally and they work as a charm, so I really don;t understand your comment. Is it just a personal view or is it based on real-life experience?
As with any decision regarding programming language, the goal needs to be evaluated. Not everything is benefitting from beeing written in C (or C++ for that matter). Choice of language needs to be based on the goals of the project, not on what langauge is "better"
Erik |
As I understand it there is no native compiler for the java language and it's slow because of that. If I'm wrong and a native compiler now exists, then I must be way behind the times and need to get with the program. But at any rate, that's what I think the reason is. _________________ Adopt an unanswered post today! |
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BigRedDot n00b


Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 67 Location: Austin
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As I understand it there is no native compiler for the java language and it's slow because of that. |
There are "Just in Time" compilers. But even setting that aside, runtime performance is by no means the only important metric to measure software by. It may be that a Java implementation may be "slower" than a C implementation, but it still may be more than "fast" enough for a given application. If it is also cheaper to develop and maintain, then it would be foolish to use C (in that instance). _________________ Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6000 people just like you. |
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dioxmat Bodhisattva

Joined: 04 May 2002 Posts: 709 Location: /home/mat
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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for the gui, you might want to take a look at qt, which is cross platform too. some friends of mine told me qtdesigner rocks.
for the programming language... if you already know C, why would you want to switch ? learning a new language is easy, but making good programs with it is a different story... |
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Lovechild Advocate


Joined: 17 May 2002 Posts: 2858 Location: Århus, Denmark
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| C++.... it's a good language no matter what the kernel devs tell you. |
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bos_mindwarp Apprentice


Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 275 Location: stockholm, sweden
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ebrostig wrote: | | bos_mindwarp wrote: |
Do NOT use Java is my personal advice. Java is good for prototyping, bad for production code. |
Can you explain why it is bad for production code?
As far as I know there are a lot of Java based production systems out there. We are running a few ourselves internally and they work as a charm, so I really don;t understand your comment. Is it just a personal view or is it based on real-life experience?
As with any decision regarding programming language, the goal needs to be evaluated. Not everything is benefitting from beeing written in C (or C++ for that matter). Choice of language needs to be based on the goals of the project, not on what langauge is "better"
Erik |
Well my company is consulting around performance (benchmarking and availibilty) measurments, we even have our own tool for doing it. I have seen a lot of problems with Java code, and I have seen some good ones.
It is hard to argue about those problems without going into details/philosophy of design, but I can summarize it roughly as: begginers believe that they get a lot of "free things" in java, such as garbage colletion, and they are neglecting sane thinking and are relying on automated features of JVM, and it doesn't always work.
Not to mention the fact that memory/cpu footprint of java app is much larger then of code written in some native language.
The reason to use java (besides cross platform issue) is advertised as saving money while developing, but that is short term saving really. IF memory/performance is not so much of an issue, and IF you are really convinced that java is proper solution, then go ahead. Basically i would like to see some cross-platform (say win32, sparc, linux, mac) tools that are doing work in native code. How about QT? There are many others.
I am not saying that C is "better" it isn't. It is old and weird really. Java is much more elegant. But imho it is not that mature yet. |
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taskara Advocate

Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 3763 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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java 2! _________________ Kororaa install method - have Gentoo up and running quickly and easily, fully automated with an installer! |
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S_aIN_t Guru


Joined: 11 May 2002 Posts: 488 Location: Ottawa
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Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:59 am Post subject: |
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if you want to learn something new.. go ahead and learn c++... there is nothing wrong with that.. it will live on for a long time.
a good book on C++ is 'Accelerated C++'.. you can find it on Amazon.con easily enough. there are plenty of references on the net.
good luck |
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really Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002 Posts: 430 Location: nowhere
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really Guru


Joined: 27 Aug 2002 Posts: 430 Location: nowhere
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Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:46 am Post subject: |
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_________________ NoManNoProblem
Get lost before you get shot. |
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