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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:
ebrostig wrote:

Hmmm... I never said that MS would take over Linux, please don't put words in my mouth.

my mistake ...i misunderstood your statement

Quote:

I said that MS will reap from the Linux revolution, i.e they will try to make as much money as possible, and I don't see anything wrong in that. :twisted:

that's what i was talking about ...they will TRY ...but i don't think they will succede

Can you please explain why you don't think they will succeed?

Remember one thing, Linux is free as speech, not fre as beer.
The moment MS is realizing they could be earning a lot of money from the Linux world, they WILL port their applications and sell them for the same prices as of today. I know that most of you people would never buy MS Office for Linux, but I know that there are a lot of companies who would if it was offered, and so do MS.

We can say what we want about MS and we do. We generally look at them as The Evil Empire, sometimes with a good reason too. But never ever think that the people running MS are stupid. They have amanged to make it the most successful software company in the world and you don't make that happen if you are stupid. MS is, as you said, all about money.

Personally I don't use any MS products except for one single Win 2k partition on one of my home computers. The only reason is because Forte Agent is the best newsreader and Nero is the best CD burning software. The moment we have either a port of these 2 or other programs that are as good as these, I'll kill that partition in a second. Oh, please don't suggest Pan or any CD burning software currently available under Linux. They simply just don't cut it.

Erik
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really
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what we must do when ms realases a linux distro is spread this word
"ms is not linux"

:p
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:
ebrostig wrote:

Hmmm... I never said that MS would take over Linux, please don't put words in my mouth.

my mistake ...i misunderstood your statement

No problem :) I do that all the time too...

hook wrote:
Quote:

I said that MS will reap from the Linux revolution, i.e they will try to make as much money as possible, and I don't see anything wrong in that. :twisted:

that's what i was talking about ...they will TRY ...but i don't think they will succede


I think they will succeed to grab a large part of the business if they want too. They have all the necessary tools in place, marketing, dealers, wellknown products and last but not least, they have money.

Erik
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hook
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the "problem"/reason is, as i stated in a thread not on this forum, that MS and open source (including linux) don't share the same idiology and mentality, so people who are _into_ windows/MS will almost for sure never convert to linux/open source, and the other way around, of course :) ...and, thank gods for that!!!

i mean: i surely wouldn't go and buy buggy software and pay big bucks, but someone else would ...but that someone wouldn't even think of downloading and compiling (or even twist the code a bit), just because it's for free and has limitless possibilities
...people are that way ...they don't like (big) changes

and another thing: the groups of people that both OSs tend to are too different, and IF ms will ever step into linux buisiness they will probably just be one of the many. ex-windows users will probably like them and use their products, but most people won't ...and i think there are more than 98% of people on this forum that wouldn't install MS software on their linux-box :)


ps. link to that thread ...btw: don't go there unless you WANT to get pissed and make serious attempts to kill a person or more, becuase of the crap they write on a forum [url]http://discuss.pcmag.com/pcmag/messages?msg=16556.90&mode=advanced
[/url]
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blunt88
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing that I think nobody really touched on. Corporations, and indiividuals, usually like to have a company to yell at if something goes wrong. I think this is one of the things that scares companies away from linux. If the system has a terrible crash (like this would ever happen under linux :D ) and fried some important info (why are there no backups?) then who do blame?? There is some security in having a corporation behind a piece of software. I don't really understand it, but that is how it is. It's kinda like saying you can buy a ford, or these college kids are going to give you their car that they entered into a science contest. If something happens to the car built by the college kids you shit out of luck, but you could throw a lawsuit at ford (isn't litigation like a warm blanket?). If ms had a version of linux, it may begin to be widely used. However, ms would have it's own binaries and other shit, and I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up only playing on ms networks, only using smb (or whatever it is called) for filesharing, i.e. on linux would crash the whole system, word would overwrite the root partition.....

what I saying is I wouldn't be suprised if ms mad a port for the sole reason of scaring people away from linux more. ms linux (god I feel sick now) could be even more full of bugs than 2k/xp/whatever and a company wanting to dive into linux, but afraid of all the opensource and lack corporate backing, would be more willing to try the distro from a "trusted" company. So ms throws together a shotty os, screws with shared libs so ./configure can't find shit, propietary binaries so ie only works on thier version and crashes it constantly, and what do get? many potential linux uses saying "it was awful" and turning more away of opensource.

just because your paranoid.........

I might be wrong, but the smartest thing ms could do right now is make WindowsDQ TM (it's my name nowl, they can't have it) a MS/Linux port, now gnu, their own wine which would be stable, thier own xserver(which would of course not follow the schemes laid out by an X server) no free compiler built in....there are so many ways that ms could fuck with the linux system to put it either so far from what a linux distro is, or so unstable and unusable that noone trying it as "MyFirstLinuxBox" would ever want to use linux again. Or both.


blunt
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really
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:
[url]http://discuss.pcmag.com/pcmag/messages?msg=16556.90&mode=advanced
[/url]
oooh man, the dudes over there are really really really dumb. they are like really really idiots...
(not some of them)
it is sad reading...
compare the users over there as Ralph from Simpsons, the one that sticks thing up his nose.
and some are really trying to be smart.

example: "i often see things like 'linux is more secure and better than windows' in linux forums, but why? what says it is? what is better" and he goes on babling...
like a i don now but maybe the permissions on a file? or like a multiusersystem or like perhaps you cant do a thing like push enter to login with no name or just "Standard" :p :p
as i said... it is saaaad reading those post.
i almost forgot that we live in a world of idiots.

edit:

oh blunt man i feel sick too :|
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hook
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antoe wrote:
hook wrote:
[url]http://discuss.pcmag.com/pcmag/messages?msg=16556.90&mode=advanced
[/url]
oooh man, the dudes over there are really really really dumb. they are like really really idiots...
(not some of them)
it is sad reading...
compare the users over there as Ralph from Simpsons, the one that sticks thing up his nose.
and some are really trying to be smart.

told you so :)
btw, nice comparison ...too true :)
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UnderScore
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One more thing that I think nobody really touched on. Corporations, and indiividuals, usually like to have a company to yell at if something goes wrong. I think this is one of the things that scares companies away from linux. If the system has a terrible crash (like this would ever happen under linux icon_biggrin.gif ) and fried some important info (why are there no backups?) then who do blame?? There is some security in having a corporation behind a piece of software. I don't really understand it, but that is how it is. It's kinda like saying you can buy a ford, or these college kids are going to give you their car that they entered into a science contest. If something happens to the car built by the college kids you shit out of luck, but you could throw a lawsuit at ford (isn't litigation like a warm blanket?). If ms had a version of linux, it may begin to be widely used. However, ms would have it's own binaries and other shit, and I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up only playing on ms networks, only using smb (or whatever it is called) for filesharing, i.e. on linux would crash the whole system, word would overwrite the root partition.....


I wrote an article that descibes the software liabilities if something were to go wrong _>
Software licenses: liability exemptions & damage disclaimers
http://www.rit.edu/~jjp6893/article/swliability/index.html

and my article is in reaction to this "news" FUD item:
Open source legal warning
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5376561%5E15344%5E%5Enbv%5E15306-15321,00.html


Anyway if you read my article you get the true picture of liability, the developers/compaines in the Free/OSS community are in no way ahead or behind in terms of liability when compared to proprietary software companies. The key is that nobody knows that you get no more so called protection from MS or Oracle or HP as compared to RedHat or the Apache Foundation
So .... this should not hinder F/OSS progress into the widespread individual and especially corporate usuage. I don't think if linux were to dominate that it would be negative situation. Currently MS is dominating and is known as the 800 pound gorilla. It is a good analogy because they hold many of the bananas of opportunity and aren't afraid to roar and fight for control of all of them.

Linux & F/OSS on the other hand allow many people/groups to contribute regardless of age/gender/money/country/language. If the government of China (with the largest population in the world) doesn't want to depend its country's IT infrastructure on American and MS products (they claim that MS products spy on their country for the USA) then they have the option, rights, and FREEDOMS to do so. I believe that F/OSS is the outward expression of philosophical ideals like "Everyone is equal" or "You have the free will to do whatever you want to do." Unless we as a community were to grow evil and cold to our fellow citizen of computing (MS/Apple/etc.) there is enough of us who believe those ideals and would prevent bad things from happening.

James
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blunt88
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UnderScore:
UnderScore wrote:

Anyway if you read my article you get the true picture of liability, the developers/compaines in the Free/OSS community are in no way ahead or behind in terms of liability when compared to proprietary software companies. The key is that nobody knows that you get no more so called protection from MS or Oracle or HP as compared to RedHat or the Apache Foundation


this is exactly what I was trying to say, you just word it better.

it is a great article, I hope more people learn about these loopholes.

I knew about them before, and that was what I was trying to say, is that all you get with using products from a company is a feeling of security. and that is all it is.... a feeling.
[/quote]
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hook
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like the way this topic evolves :) ...thank gods it's not another bashing/flaming topic :)

underscore, about your article: i'll send it to a professor at my universitiy (i'm a law student) :) ...and then i'll post her reply, all ok with that?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
underscore, about your article: i'll send it to a professor at my universitiy (i'm a law student) ...and then i'll post her reply, all ok with that?


I have no problem with that.
Thanks
:D
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