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hook
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:32 am    Post subject: My view about linux ruling the world Reply with quote

firstly, i would like to point out that i have been a linux user for the past 4 years, and am intending to stay one (btw: i don't boot into windoze anymore, even if it takes me more than a week to achieve the thing i need - cd-r, lexmark printer)

and secondly: this is just a scenario to make people think about it, it probably will never happen (i hope, -knock on wood-)


ok, imagine, microsoft would colapse, windows would seize to exist, and linux would rule the world (=every coder's dream :wink:).
but what about the consequences?
well... you only have to imagine it hard enough and think logically and analitically.

linux would be the sole OS, but there would be another OS (probably QNX, Be-os or mac-os) to side it (like linux did/does to windows). ok, we would achieve stability, and cancel the BSOF (blue screen of death)

...but would it really last that long? wouldn't the popularity kill the sole core of linux - it would have to be user-frindly ...and what do you kill with "user-friendlyness"? the so called "l33t".
linux wouldn't be like it is anymore, the stability would melt down due the rants and pledges for user-friendliness of the populus. and becuase of the big choice you have with linux the newbie, ex-windows users would be confused ...so the choice would get minimal, and most of the install and maintainance would get automatical.

also all the distros would either brake down, or unite, but definetly they would get the same. maybe only one distro which would be under Linus' wing, would still folow the idea of linux. Linus would be pushed out of the growing linux comunity and would lose the control over the kernel, because the other - leading distros would copy his kernel, close its source and develope it on their own - this would cause less stability and the closure of all the source, which would then cause linux to be comercial and pretty expecive, as is windows now.

the american government would support this and seize the opportunuty, and support linux, wanting to get more power and money out of it ...it wouldn't happen, becuase linux isn't a company, it isn't a corporation ...it just exists! so they could just buy/bribe some of the distros, but not all of them.
on the other side, the european government would try to break this tirany of the USA and the one of linux ...but would also fail, for the same reason - they cannot kill an enemy if they can't see it.

and the last hope would be and underground alternative and probably open-source OS, that most of the l33t would migrate to, evolve it and the story would go once again around ...
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the leading distro you are mentioning is not able to close the source becuse it violates the law, and if they do they cant call it linux.

windoze will never sieze to exist as long as ms exists, and they are a company, which means there is nothing they whouldnt do to save there asses or get more and more money. even if it means blood.
and ms has money so they can run the store for somer years, if linux becomes the leeding dekstop os they are gonna take action, and belive me that is not gonna be fare. not at all.

the popularity mabe kill the sence of what linux is to you, but i will still run my own gentoo machne, it still is gonna be what it is today, for me. sure the "leading" distro will get more "user friendly" but as long as i have # and / it is all that it is.
i mean sure there will be distros that hide the real thing but there will be distros like gentoo if you know what i mean ;)
i think that the freedom to choose is gonna remain, and if it doenst then its not linux.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antoe: i completely agree with you, but as i said, this is probably the darkest scenario that could exist ...it's there just for people to think about it ...nothing in it is meant for real :) ...i know i'll use linux even if that happens (which it won't -knock on wood-) and even if it costs me to make a distro myself or install linux from scratch :)

...everyone know it's agaist the law, but that isn't always an obsticle in real life :(

...about MS, i'm not too sure it's going to stay forever ...i have doubts that it will still exist during my life ...i really think it's days are counted
for instance, there are more users migrating to linux yearly and some major firms and even some (european) governements (german, french, slovene) are considering to migrate to linux to be US and MS independant and have more flexibility and stability using low costs

example: in slovenia there market chain called "Tus" which is going to install linux on all the machines that they use (servers, workstations...). this is going to be the biggest linux migration in the whole eastern and central europe
the second example: the slovenian goverement made a similar project in the Agency for Environment of Republic of Slovenia

...these two are two examples i _really_ know of!! ...about the other governments i have heard from pretty reliable sources, but i can't swear on it :)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:

...about MS, i'm not too sure it's going to stay forever ...i have doubts that it will still exist during my life ...i really think it's days are counted
for instance, there are more users migrating to linux yearly and some major firms and even some (european) governements (german, french, slovene) are considering to migrate to linux to be US and MS independant and have more flexibility and stability using low costs
hm.... i think i know what you mean, ofcourse if the world starts using linux, which is whats happening, new zeeland and india has converted too, but i think as a company ms will not allow it to get bankrupt, if they cant win the desktop market, which they cant for reasons like closed source or the eula, i think they are gonna relize that and move there thing somewhere else, like starting creating compjuters in compaq style or working on mouse devices, pdas, mobile networks or producing some other products, the C# thing is a "to be safe" thing, when ppl start coding in that they bind themself to it.
they maybe are not gonna be as big as today, but they are so big i think they can afford of surviving mines and yours children,
but therefor we shall teach them to avoid all evul. :D
;)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i completely agree... and am very happy to see a person with such views on the matter :) ...hopefully the leading people in linux have the same mentality :)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:
i completely agree... and am very happy to see a person with such views on the matter :) ...hopefully the leading people in linux have the same mentality :)
hehe :) thank you. ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no problem :)

...i would like to apell to all viewers of this post, that it was not meant to be a private conversation between me and antoe ...so be free to contribute :)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always though it was kinda of funny how we (a large portion of the linux community) bash micro$oft for "trying to take over the world," when in reaality, it is linux that has the potential. I personally think it would be an incredibly dangerous situation if linux did take over the desktop os market. For one, it creates the exact situation that causes defects and disease...a group of systems that are all the same. That is the largest danger with relying on closed source software that has become "standard" like MS Outlook. One of the main reasons the "I love you virus" took coused so much damage is that it took advantage of a security flaw in outlook ( correct me if I wrong). I wouldn't want linux to become the only OS because then there would be too much commercialism surronding it. Yes, there would still be projects like gentoo, but more hardware companies would release binary drivers for their products, and require some propiety "intall shield" type program that is only available on distro A. That would be the future. And it would be great to have better support for hardware on liniux (though the only thing I have that I can't get to work is a digital camer...kernel panic and the system locked) the type of support would be no better for say, gentoo, than it was before the takeover. Commercially, the distro's would divide and certain patches would be made to the kernel, or X server, or whatever, making it slightly different from all the others. The differences in the distro's is what make linux so great. The ability to customize to your needs(why it has the real potential to take over the world), but as of now there is not much room for the commercial aspects of a piece of software, and there is no advantage to trying to force people onto a certain system. I hope that ms never goes out of business. A certain balance is needed. ms may dominate desktops forever, It will have a large share servers too, but corporations and goverrnments are seeing the portential in linux and it is this that will help the community, hopefully, companies will be more willing to A. release binary drivers, or B. release more information about products to asist in developing open source drivers. The next hope is that more software vendors will realize the market for linux. especially the game developers.
sorry, this was a bit long and i think i started to get off topic, but the point is I agree, linux ruling the world would be bad. Any one os dominating is bad. that is (one reason) why windoze is so shitty. it had no real compitition for such a long time, and although linux is a big contender for the server market, gates is not really scared (at least not very scared) about the desktops. Oh and did I mention MS office? how long until companies will be able to pull themselves away. XML file formats go openoffice.
I'm done
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

about the lenght of your post: no problem ...this topic was meant for thinking not only for "i agree/disagree" posts :)

about xml ...don't worry, xml documents are the next "big thing/new technology" ms office is going to have ...so, openoffice.org will become even more popular because of that ...in my opinion :)

to extend my first post, i would like to add something i posted into another topic:
my ideal state would be that all the OSs would co-exist without one having a monopolistic status and would be fully compatible and transmigrateble (as linux can read and write vfat and other partitions)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
my ideal state would be that all the OSs would co-exist without one having a monopolistic status and would be fully compatible and transmigrateble (as linux can read and write vfat and other partitions)


I don't believe it is necesary for all OS's to have compatible filesystems, but considering the vast networks that are in play, perhaps more important is not being able to read/write to any partition that is known, but be able to transparently access filesystems over a network. Wouldn't it be nice if ms supported NFS, (though I know it has flaws). The monopoly is bad, and like I said, there needs to be a balance. That doesn't mean they need to be friendly.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On whether or not MS will still be around down the road. I'm sure they won't. At least not in the present form. Times change. Everything changes. Sure there are some very old companies around but most of them are still around because things haven't changed much with the core of their industries (Coca-Cola, NY Times, Warner Brothers). Companies fall every day. Some die because of failure to compete (Eastern Air Lines, Hayes Modems, <insert favorite dot-com here>. However, some fail due to outside influence. Just take a look at Standard Oil and Ma Bell. Either way I agree that MS's days are numbered (it might be a big number but they're still numbered). Maybe the US will get another anti-big-business, trust-busting Teddy Roosevelt-like president. Hard to see is the future. Just something to think about.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stupid double post.

Last edited by pizen on Mon Dec 23, 2002 5:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pizen wrote:
Stupid double post.

??????? how so, I must have missed something.



But on what you said earlier, you may be right, ms' days are numbered. My point is that I don't think, and like hook said, I hope linux will never rule the desktop market. Honestly, I hope ms does get "reduced" to a hardware manufacturer that is trying to keep alive by selling mice and "natural" keyboards. But if that happens I hope that Apple, or some other business, takes a good 60 or 70 percent of the market. I don't think that linux gaining a majority on the desktop market would be benificial, I love linux. The last time I booted in windoze was to try and play some games. What is more dissapointed, failing to get a game to run under winex, or failing to get to run under win2k (the box says compatible with win95/98/me/nt/2k). Either it crashed (unreal tournament) or everything "exploded" like in some of the extras in the Shrek DVD (black&white). The point is, I agree with hook, in that it is dangerous to the spirit of linux becomeing too widely used. As soon as a price tag is put on the box, it all goes to shit.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blunt88 wrote:
As soon as a price tag is put on the box, it all goes to shit.
amen to that! :)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blunt88: why don't you use the linux version of unreal tournament?!? ...it's faster (than in windows ...at least on my pc) ...and you don't have to fock around to get it to work :)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, the diversity is the key. I wouldn't want linux to rule the world, but I certainly prefer that to Microsoft's rule. I am not bashing windows because it is inferior OS or anything. Some things in it are better, some worse. It depends how you use it.

What I don't like about Microsoft is their lack of morality. Ok I know, it's tough, business and jada jada jada, but I just have that bad feeling in my stomach when I see "Where do you want to go today?" and similiar ads. I feel like being on the wrong side in a fraud.

I don't feel like sucker when working with Linux, it is more like: "Here it is, it works like this, take it or leave it." Besides, it works just fine =). I can solve almost all of my programming tasks at work with it (except say client communication with ODBC and Lotus Notes, it is still in hack-state).
With windows it is an endless loop: here is the problem, we can solve it like this, we have to buy this and that, it costs that much, maybe we cannot afford it.

With linux (or any other UNIX for that matter) I just do it.

I will probably have Windows on my PC for a long time (as long as I play games), and that's about it, I don't think Windows has that much to offer in other fields. We'll see if they can solve their incompetence and lack of self-selling products by muscling their way on the market.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blunt88 wrote:
I always though it was kinda of funny how we (a large portion of the linux community) bash micro$oft for "trying to take over the world," when in reaality, it is linux that has the potential.


I look at it this way: Pretend the OS battle is like star wars. :) The Linux users are like the republic, fighting with hacked up ships for the freedom of the universe. MS is like the empire, trying to sread into all possible areas of the galaxy in order to control everything for the sole purpose of profit and power.

I catually have a much better explination of that in my head, but I can't seem to get it out. Only had one cup of coffee so far. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blunt88 wrote:
pizen wrote:
Stupid double post.

??????? how so, I must have missed something.

I know this is OT to the discussion but I thought I'd explain. It double posted. I couldn't find the post delete button so I edited the second copy to be "Stupid double post."
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:
blunt88: why don't you use the linux version of unreal tournament?!? ...it's faster (than in windows ...at least on my pc) ...and you don't have to fock around to get it to work :)


oh I do, I just wanted to see the comparison. much better under linux...Ever tried changing .xinitr to just have ut start and no wm =)

It was curiosity, but the point is these games are written for windoze, and they didn't work. Very dissapointing.



Empty_One wrote:
I look at it this way: Pretend the OS battle is like star wars. icon_smile.gif The Linux users are like the republic, fighting with hacked up ships for the freedom of the universe. MS is like the empire, trying to sread into all possible areas of the galaxy in order to control everything for the sole purpose of profit and power.


I agree with the metaphor, but what I was trying to point out is that linux can and does run on just about any hardware. this is in part due to the GNU project and that gcc has builds for so many hardware platforms, but my point is that linux has the ability to seep into areas of technology similar to a virus, whereas a port of windoze to PPC would, aside from not selling a single copy, be an incredible project for m$ to try and do, and for obvios reasons, they wouldn't. I was just trying to point out that linux has a higher potential for world domination because it is not limited to x86 architecture...sparc,x86,x86-64 and amd-64, ppc, and how many others?

But about the hacked up ships...that would mean the Star Destroyers would have a tendency to randomly explode :lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blunt88 wrote:
a port of windoze to PPC would, aside from not selling a single copy, be an incredible project for m$ to try and do, and for obvios reasons, they wouldn't.
.. why dont they do that?
whats stoping them? apple?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antoe wrote:
.. why dont they do that?
whats stoping them? apple?

well, think about it ...no sane apple (mac) user would delete his (almost) fully functial OS and install windows on it
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we'll ever see Microsoft go bankrupt.
They will always be a big player in the PC world.

Right now they are working on a Linux based server version that will integrate nicely with their .NEt architecture.

MS Office will be available on Linux within a couple of years, so will IE and MediaPlayer.

Why? Because Microsoft is all about money. If they can reap from the Linux revolution , they will. Don't ever think that Microsoft is stupid, they haven't been able to get to where they are today by beeing stupid. They are just a little slow sometimes.

In a few years, Microsoft will be one of the key players in the Linux world, like it or not.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
I don't think we'll ever see Microsoft go bankrupt.
They will always be a big player in the PC world.


ok, i agree with that

Quote:
MS Office will be available on Linux within a couple of years, so will IE and MediaPlayer.


so what? ...i think only total newbies will start using IE and MediaPlayer ...others will stick to whatever they found it was doing fine with them :)

Quote:

Why? Because Microsoft is all about money. If they can reap from the Linux revolution , they will. Don't ever think that Microsoft is stupid, they haven't been able to get to where they are today by beeing stupid. They are just a little slow sometimes.

In a few years, Microsoft will be one of the key players in the Linux world, like it or not.

ok, everybody knows that M$ stands for "More $$$" :) ...but ms taking over linux ...i doubt that ...open source is in their way ...people won't like closed binary programs in linux if they get open source for free
...and even if they do start a distro/programs/... of their own, there will still be the choice ...that's what linux was built on!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hook wrote:
ebrostig wrote:

Why? Because Microsoft is all about money. If they can reap from the Linux revolution , they will. Don't ever think that Microsoft is stupid, they haven't been able to get to where they are today by beeing stupid. They are just a little slow sometimes.

In a few years, Microsoft will be one of the key players in the Linux world, like it or not.


ok, everybody knows that M$ stands for "More $$$" :) ...but ms taking over linux ...i doubt that ...open source is in their way ...people won't like closed binary programs in linux if they get open source for free
...and even if they do start a distro/programs/... of their own, there will still be the choice ...that's what linux was built on!!!


Hmmm... I never said that MS would take over Linux, please don't put words in my mouth.

I said that MS will reap from the Linux revolution, i.e they will try to make as much money as possible, and I don't see anything wrong in that. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:

Hmmm... I never said that MS would take over Linux, please don't put words in my mouth.

my mistake ...i misunderstood your statement

Quote:

I said that MS will reap from the Linux revolution, i.e they will try to make as much money as possible, and I don't see anything wrong in that. :twisted:

that's what i was talking about ...they will TRY ...but i don't think they will succede
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