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ellis n00b
Joined: 24 Mar 2003 Posts: 10 Location: Freiburg, Germany
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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So I've been an enthusiastic Gentoo user for four years. In that time I've installed and maintained more than a dozen systems for work, friends, and personal use.
Yesterday, I needed to install a new system at work, so I tried the 2006.1 LiveCD with the GTK installer. After several hours of compiling it failed because it couldn't download some random little file from random mirror.
Installing Gentoo is like a perverse masochistic ritual. Not always, but too often.
So good-bye Gentoo, because I need to *work* with my system, rather than go through some extended painful birthing process! I'm losing portage, and you're losing an experienced user and advocate.
Best regards and thanks to the community for the excellent help in the past
Ellis |
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petrjanda Veteran
Joined: 05 Sep 2003 Posts: 1557 Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Why does everyone feel to make a good bye thread? I was using gentoo for a 1 and half and then just moved on to BSD. For some reason all these people seem to be somewhat brokenhearted. _________________ There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta |
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slonocode Apprentice
Joined: 03 Jun 2002 Posts: 273
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: |
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petrjanda wrote: | Why does everyone feel to make a good bye thread? I was using gentoo for a 1 and half and then just moved on to BSD. For some reason all these people seem to be somewhat brokenhearted. |
It seems quite obvious really. People who have used gentoo for that length of time have invested quite a bit so it's just not that easy to walk away.
I believe that gentoo is facing a bit of a problem. Instead of becoming easier to administer as it matures it is becoming harder and more time consuming. Instead of portage becoming a more well oiled package manager as it matures it is becoming brittle and inflexible. Developers are airing dirty laundry about how hard it is to get things done and how nobody wants to do the grunt work of QA anymore. I think this is a pretty pivotal point in gentoo's lifecycle. |
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isnogood Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 96
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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petrjanda wrote: | Why does everyone feel to make a good bye thread? I was using gentoo for a 1 and half and then just moved on to BSD. For some reason all these people seem to be somewhat brokenhearted. |
I almost did one myself after I don't know how many years gentoo (all I know is there wasn't even a forum when I started useing it).
I think the reason for this is that some of those guys would like to see gentoo going back to something that is well managed and maintained.
My last install was ridiculous:
First of all some of the doc's are not correct.
emerge ati-driver: Yeah right - libxrandr missing and no keyboard and mouse despite being in make.conf
- Fix doc's or ebuilds
gcc-4.1 : another great choice - various apps from the stable branch don't compile - recompiled the whole thing with gcc-3.4 just for kicks and things worked, hmmm?
- If you feel the need for a new compiler in stable either make sure the compiler works with everything in stable or stick to the 'old' one or get rid of the apps that don't compile in stable and move those to ~.
Short on dev resources? Don't waste them on gui installers - afaik there where some other projects around doing that.Let them worry about it.
Seeing that openssl needs a rebuild again without any script (it might seem from the newsletter) to reemerge things accordingly just makes me happy I didn't stick to it because I would have had a fit.It's not like that happened the first time after all. |
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Q-collective Advocate
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 2071
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
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slonocode wrote: | petrjanda wrote: | Why does everyone feel to make a good bye thread? I was using gentoo for a 1 and half and then just moved on to BSD. For some reason all these people seem to be somewhat brokenhearted. |
It seems quite obvious really. People who have used gentoo for that length of time have invested quite a bit so it's just not that easy to walk away.
I believe that gentoo is facing a bit of a problem. Instead of becoming easier to administer as it matures it is becoming harder and more time consuming. Instead of portage becoming a more well oiled package manager as it matures it is becoming brittle and inflexible. Developers are airing dirty laundry about how hard it is to get things done and how nobody wants to do the grunt work of QA anymore. I think this is a pretty pivotal point in gentoo's lifecycle. |
You have just summed up all the problems that are aired in all those "why I hate Gentoo" threads.
Portage is no longer on the forefront of revolutionary design, it was designed to handle ~15 000 files, now it's handling almost a tenfold and the code is a mess.
There is no transparant developing structure, although I see that as a task of improvement for the User Rep initiative.
Mirrors are ill updated, portage not being able to find some file is becoming ever more frequent.
So yeah, Gentoo has a serious problem and it really needs to solve them because Gentoo's growth has become stagnant over the past two years, if nothing is done a serious drop in users is inevitable. |
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xglad n00b
Joined: 13 Aug 2002 Posts: 53 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA.
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I've noticed the mirror problem as well. I've just been doing emerge -f on any thing that will take longer than an hour and then tracking stuff down by hand if it can't be found. It's happened maybe 5 times in as many months. Just the same, my camel's back is a little bit more resilient than the OP's. |
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tabanus l33t
Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 638 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wow...4 years using Gentoo and only 8 posts. What a sad loss to the community you are. _________________ Things you might say if you never took Physics: "I'm overweight even though I don't overeat." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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jonnevers Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003 Posts: 1594 Location: Gentoo64 land
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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ellis wrote: | So good-bye Gentoo, because I need to *work* with my system, rather than go through some extended painful birthing process! I'm losing portage, and you're losing an experienced user and advocate. |
meh. we aren't losing anything.
i'd be surprised if you aren't the same person who posted this thread |
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loki99 Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 2056 Location: Vienna, €urope
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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ellis wrote: | So I've been an enthusiastic Gentoo user for four years. In that time I've installed and maintained more than a dozen systems for work, friends, and personal use.
Yesterday, I needed to install a new system at work, so I tried the 2006.1 LiveCD with the GTK installer. After several hours of compiling it failed because it couldn't download some random little file from random mirror.
Installing Gentoo is like a perverse masochistic ritual. Not always, but too often.
So good-bye Gentoo, because I need to *work* with my system, rather than go through some extended painful birthing process! I'm losing portage, and you're losing an experienced user and advocate.
Best regards and thanks to the community for the excellent help in the past
Ellis |
Sorry to see you go ellis, but your reasoning leaves me a little bit puzzeld.
So you are droping all your running Gentoo boxes, just because the quite new GLI screwed up on one install of yours? Why didn't you just drop to the console to try to get the file from a different server? Why didn't you try to ask for help in the forums? Installing Gentoo still requires some time, thats one of the downsides of Gentoo, but usually you only have to do it once.
So I'll just asume that there must be other reasons for you leaving Gentoo right now. And as others have stated, there are a bunch of things that need to be "fixed". But to be honest, I just can't feel the pain personally that everyone seems to talk about. I just updated my box a couple of weeks ago after not doing so for over 2 months and with update I mean everything! From gcc-4.1 to xorg-7.1, I even installed the hardmasked gnome-2.16, just to see if i can get aiglx working (it does work quite well, btw ), and had like F-O-U-R packages fail!
All of them were easily to solve except for "eog-2.16" which I dont care for anyhow, so I didn't invest any time in getting it to work.
Nevertheless, the personal experience of others is obviously different and there is an on-going discussion between devs, whether Gentoo needs a stronger leadership, how fast people should try to implement new stuff and what could be done to improve QA. But please keep in mind that the current metastructure of Gentoo is only about one and a half years old, the new council that just has gathered for the first time is only the second council that has been elected and from what I can tell, they are not planning to be as passiv as the first council.
To anyone that is interrested in this topic, I strongly recommend to read the -dev ML and planet.gentoo.org
Last edited by loki99 on Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vonr Guru
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 300
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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Amen to that! Now, I'm not trying to piss anybody off here, but these recent trends in posting on the forums and on /. really start to get on my nerves. Moreso because of the fact that these problems seem to elude me in a mysterious manner. I've been running a gcc4, glibc2.4, modular xorg ~arch system for quite some time now (I unmasked both modular xorg and gcc4 quite some time ago), and apart from occasional breakage everything goes quite well. Besides, I have never run into any breakage for which there was no solution on the forums or bugzilla. I simply do not get this 'OMG gentoo is going downhill fast, run for your lives' attitude.
Today I noticed that the suspend2-patched .18 kernel was released already, within a day or two from kernel release. Complain all you want, but that's pretty fast.
I would like to thank the devs for their great work; gentoo will probably be my preferred distro for quite some time to come. |
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massysett Apprentice
Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 296 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Why can't the mods move these to "Duplicate Threads" just like they do when people ask useful questions in the other categories that just happen to be dupes? Or have a "Gentoo Sucks" thread and make it sticky? _________________ Draft Windows-to-Linux Guide |
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Q-collective Advocate
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 2071
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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massysett wrote: | Why can't the mods move these to "Duplicate Threads" just like they do when people ask useful questions in the other categories that just happen to be dupes? Or have a "Gentoo Sucks" thread and make it sticky? |
+5 insightfull |
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nixnut Bodhisattva
Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 10974 Location: the dutch mountains
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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tabanus wrote: | Wow...4 years using Gentoo and only 8 posts. What a sad loss to the community you are. |
jonnevers wrote: | ellis wrote: | So good-bye Gentoo, because I need to *work* with my system, rather than go through some extended painful birthing process! I'm losing portage, and you're losing an experienced user and advocate. |
meh. we aren't losing anything. |
Stop being silly please. There are plenty of people contributing to Gentoo without ever being a presence at the forums.
If you want to give Gentoo an even worse reputation than remarks like yours already gave it, you're certainly going about it the right way. _________________ Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved. Help answer the unanswered
talk is cheap. supply exceeds demand |
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jonnevers Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003 Posts: 1594 Location: Gentoo64 land
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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nixnut wrote: | tabanus wrote: | Wow...4 years using Gentoo and only 8 posts. What a sad loss to the community you are. |
jonnevers wrote: | ellis wrote: | So good-bye Gentoo, because I need to *work* with my system, rather than go through some extended painful birthing process! I'm losing portage, and you're losing an experienced user and advocate. |
meh. we aren't losing anything. |
Stop being silly please. There are plenty of people contributing to Gentoo without ever being a presence at the forums.
If you want to give Gentoo an even worse reputation than remarks like yours already gave it, you're certainly going about it the right way. |
heh. ok mod. I don't particuliarly care about gentoo's reputation though just like I don't care if linux's market penetration increases. I use gentoo because its an amazingly powerful OS implementation.
if people find it too difficult, fine by me but they should just move on and get on with their lives.
to be absolutely specific. I am calling the OP a troll... in fact the same troll who posted the thread I linked to previously.
an "experienced user and advocate" would know, without a shadow of a doubt that the graphical installer is bogus and would have just done the standard installation methodology. I know I would... and I've been using gentoo for longer then 4 years. |
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tabanus l33t
Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 638 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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nixnut wrote: | If you want to give Gentoo an even worse reputation than remarks like yours already gave it, you're certainly going about it the right way. |
I disagree actually. Grumpy devs posting on the forums or bugzilla when all people are asking for is help is much worse. I'm just an average user, that tries, where I can, to help people when they have problems that I know how to solve. The image of Gentoo is not harmed in any way by my posting a (slightly) grumpy reply to a (slightly) grumpy post. _________________ Things you might say if you never took Physics: "I'm overweight even though I don't overeat." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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geniux Veteran
Joined: 19 Feb 2004 Posts: 1400 Location: /home
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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tabanus wrote: | nixnut wrote: | If you want to give Gentoo an even worse reputation than remarks like yours already gave it, you're certainly going about it the right way. |
I disagree actually. Grumpy devs posting on the forums or bugzilla when all people are asking for is help is much worse. I'm just an average user, that tries, where I can, to help people when they have problems that I know how to solve. The image of Gentoo is not harmed in any way by my posting a (slightly) grumpy reply to a (slightly) grumpy post. |
I've got to agree with nixnut
tabanus wrote: |
Wow...4 years using Gentoo and only 8 posts. What a sad loss to the community you are. |
This post looks more like a personal attack and plain mean than grumpy when it's read
But I agree that these "I leaving Gentoo" threads are getting way to many _________________ AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+ AM2
MSI K9N SLI Platinum, Enermax Liberty 500W
1GB RAM Crucial DDR2 667MHz, MSI nVidia 7600GS 256MB
400GB + 250GB Samsung SATAII HDD
Gentoo - BeyondSources 2.6.19-20 |
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phatscum n00b
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Down the sewers
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand that people leave because they feel insecure about Gentoo's current state, but if you're leaving just because portage couldn't fetch a random file, I highly doubt you've been running Gentoo for 4 years.
On a side note, GLI is a pain in the ass and I wish it'd be discontinued as it makes more problems than it solves. _________________ Computer games don't affect kids, I mean, if pacman affected us as kids we'd all run around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Last edited by phatscum on Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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playfool l33t
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 688 Location: Ã
rhus, Denmark
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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petrjanda wrote: | Why does everyone feel to make a good bye thread? I was using gentoo for a 1 and half and then just moved on to BSD. For some reason all these people seem to be somewhat brokenhearted. |
At least people who post "I'm leaving" messages are only generally an ass about it once... |
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psyqil Advocate
Joined: 26 May 2003 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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playfool wrote: | At least people who post "I'm leaving" messages are only generally an ass about it once... |
Generally... |
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thereisnospoon n00b
Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 28 Location: Colorado, US
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: |
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loki99, like you, I recently did an Code: | emerge --deep --update world | , after at least 2 months of nothing. I had problems with 2 packages blocking stuff, both easily solved with a simple emerge -C. I updated 125 packages, including X -> X7. I read a doc on how to do it gracefully, asked my friend google a couple questions, and had a happy updated box in about a day(most of it spent compiling). I think portage works incredibly well considering all the packages it handles.
I also love how current the portage tree stays. Compared to a lot of other distros, gentoo usually has the latest release of most packages. _________________ Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. "What Truth?" There is no spoon, and then you will realize that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. |
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playfool l33t
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 688 Location: Ã
rhus, Denmark
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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psyqil wrote: | playfool wrote: | At least people who post "I'm leaving" messages are only generally an ass about it once... |
Generally... |
When I was a boy we respected our elders.. damn hippies.
Now get off my lawn you young hudlum!
That being said I think I'm one of the only ones left here who remember the woes of installing pre 1.0 gentoos. |
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pjp Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Why I'm dropping Gentoo after 4 dedicated years |
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ellis wrote: | it failed because it couldn't download some random little file from random mirror.
Installing Gentoo is like a perverse masochistic ritual. | Seems to be a disconnect there. That is hardly masochistic. A nuissance that should be fixed, certainly. _________________ Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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quag7 Apprentice
Joined: 12 Aug 2002 Posts: 288 Location: Marana, Arizona - USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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In reference to more and more discussion of problems with Gentoo (See http://lwn.net/Articles/197380/ among others), I'm curious if some kind of summit or gathering is in the works to iron out some of these issues.
I've personally not noticed anything particularly different from normal, but I appear to be in the minority. I have approximately a .5% failure rate (half of one percent) when it comes to packages, and it seems to have been that way fairly consistently for the last several years (in fact, there seemed to be some periods a few years back when it was worse). I haven't been keeping track until recently (as a result of what seems to be growing discontent about Gentoo), but that sounds about right. It's an acceptable failure rate for me personally, though of course, right now I'm not missing any critical packages - ask me when something's broken
I don't want to be one of those "works for me" types (that kind of retort is always unhelpful), because clearly there seems to be a growing perception that Gentoo is having problems. I'm just curious if anything in particular is in the works to get a gameplan together going forward. I'm sure everyone has gripes about Gentoo but it would be interesting to see what the top 5 most overlapping issues are. Most of these "I'M LEAVING" threads have a litany of complaints, but none which are stated in a way which can be easily acted upon (there is often a lack of precision in these complaints which makes them unhelpful). With all of the architectures, kernel versions, compiler and library versions out there, it's not surprised that there tend to be problems from time to time, but it would be interesting to pick some patterns out of the full range of complaints.
The above link was referenced from Slashdot, and increasingly I see more and more discussion on the websites I read about Gentoo's weaknesses and problems, and less about its strengths and virtues.
On my recent upgrade to gcc 4.1.1 from 3.4.6, system compiled without problems. When I did world, I had a failure rate of 4 out of 740 packages, running mostly stable, with perhaps a dozen packages marked ~amd64 in package.keywords. Actually it was 6 out of 743, but 2 of the packages I skipped with --skipfirst merged okay at the end of the process.
The failure rate coincides roughly with the same update I made on a x86 system a few weeks ago. Also I moved that same system to modular X, and had only a few minor quirks doing that which were quickly fixed.
More and more though, if what I read on webboards is true, my experience is not typical.
---
Lastly I would like to have a "storming out of gentoo with an empassioned goodbye message" forum with a voting system so we can rate "goodbye forever" flames, with sober, detailed critiques of each. I've mentioned this before, but it seems appropriate. This one in particular disappointed a bit - I like to see bridges flare up and exploded into a giant fireball when burned, not merely sort of char over like campfire coals.
It did cover some of the basics I look for, but ultimately, I have to say that I was disappointed. This post was much like the second Matrix film in that regard.
In particular, I give points for the "I have to get WORK done" bit, which is always appreciated. I like to see a good work ethic, and it's understandable how this children's toy we call Gentoo, just isn't up to the task. As most of us just break our systems on purpose because we have childlike fun fixing them (oh the reverie is positively intoxicating!), it is important to be reminded of all of this work people have to do. This isn't just fun and games. Some people - however unreasonable and absurd this may seem - don't enjoy broken, unstable systems as much as most of us do, so a quick reminder that some people have work to do is always appreciated.
I liked the bit about how we were losing an experienced user and advocate, just to remind us all of how our own lives are in decline. This is why communes in the 60s all wound up failing. It's pretty sociological when you think about it.
Anyway I read this sort of thing and I remember the closing theme from "The Incredible Hulk," where, in this case, the user wanders slowly down a deserted highway, with the lonely piano theme playing. So that's good; it's a pretty image, and I give plus points here.
The various amateurs who have left "I'm leaving" rants could learn something here. Rather than go for a boorish insult - which is still preferable to nothing at all, I might add - the poster suggested that we were all losing something precious and dear, and that - one must read between the lines for this next part - we ought to feel some sadness at that. And I did. Perhaps it is as a result of the clear subtlety, professionalism, and skill of this part of the post that makes me expect so much more from the rest of it. Clearly the poster is capable of better than this. That being said, I would point out that the act of making me feel as if I'm losing something personally, is *masterful* and the young people coming up in this "storming out of here" business could learn something. Fine form.
And this gets me to my next point.
I didn't like the general "you" in the "you are losing" bit. I'd give higher points if he blamed either the developers, or users, or was otherwise more specific on who was losing (or being blamed).
I am a bit jealous of the Slackware crowd. I imagine they've had people storming out with "Damn you Patrick Volkerding" and so on. And this is far more...cinematic, blaming one person. It's very sort of John McClane and Hans Gruber in "Die Hard" when it's man vs. man as opposed to man vs. online community. Not only that, but "Damn you Patrick Volkerding" is just one of those catch phrases people can say to each other and put on tee shirts. But in this particular storming out post, I cannot find a single thing to say for dramatic effect in the office on Monday. I guess I will have to once again resort to tired Monty Python quotes. A major opportunity was lost here.
Also the last bit about "best regards and thanks" really sours me on this particular "I'm leaving" post. It's either one of two things - a cheap trick to reduce our annoyance at reading the message by being a decent fellow, or else, it's an honest sentiment, but in either case, we're cheated out of our own outrage. This is cruel, bordering on sociopathic. Never, ever fail to outrage everyone in an "I'm leaving post" if you can avoid it. Any Borscht Belt comic will tell you that you have to work the crowd.
Clean, well-chosen language which directly insults every potential reader of your post, is a crowd-pleaser every time, as indicated by the number of responses such flames receive. Profanity makes your post easier to dismiss. Since the poster did not even attempt to insult everyone, this isn't really relevant but I mention it here for posterity.
Lastly, there is no direct allegation that "GENTOO IS DIEING (sic)." This is like being served a pizza with no cheese. Some people like pizza that way but I don't trust 'em.
Dough hounds, I mean.
Insulin junkies.
I like cheese on my pizza and the cheese in any "I'm leaving" post is the direct accusation that the project in question is "DIEING" (sic). No such allegation was made. In fact, the poster kept his problems quite personal. "I needed to install a new system" and "because *I* need to work with my system."
A broad declarative would have punched this up quite nicely. Such as, "People need to get work done and portage constantly fails and Gentoo users are getting angry" is much better. Always insist that your experience matches that of the whole (this works in both ways - if it fails for you, just say it sucks. If it works for you, say something constructively provocative like, "people smart enough to understand their systems don't have this problem." Never personalize it because it suggests a subjectivity which complicates the true desire of every reader to be outraged. When you make broad declarative statements, it involves the reader personally, and often inappropriately. Which is what you want.
I take the act of leaving me out of an "I'm leaving" post as a direct personal affront.
If I say "Gentoo sucks and everyone knows it," well, it's possible a lot of people don't agree with that statement but they've been included as part of "everyone." Therefore, they become outraged at the presumptiveness of the statement - something we all appreciate.
Once again, you need to work the crowd (up into a lather). I for one do not appreciate not being involved and presumptively included in categorical statements about anything. As an American, I've become used to being stereotyped and blamed, and I've grown to enjoy the outrage I experience from that (I won't say addicted - it's more like needing that morning cup of coffee. I can live without it but it gives me a headache now).
Being left out in posts like this is insulting. Please inappropriately include me in your sentiments unless I agree with you, in which case there is no point.
I won't even go into minor quibbles about the reasonable grammar and spelling. Again, back to the outrage deficit; always - ALWAYS, storm out with bad grammar and spelling, preferably with a LOT OF CAPITALS AND EXCLAMATIONS WITH TONS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!1!
I feel cheated and insulted at the relatively measured, moderate, literate nature of this post.
Anyway just my two cents on the matter. _________________ http://www.dataswamp.net |
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loki99 Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 2056 Location: Vienna, €urope
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for making me laugh on this sunny morning! |
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syouth Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 275
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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'Tis quite strange argument, dropping Gentoo after 4 years, when you say, that I tried graphical installer and some file wasn't found in some random mirror.
[whine]And please make a special subforum for those goodbye letters. If anyone is in the mood for such things, (s)he can go and read.[/whine] _________________ psylove |
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