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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ag_x wrote:
No, the problem is what you are doing for this.
So your suggestion is to ban a user that you think is a troll, when it might just be someone you disagree with? I'm not saying our solution is perfect. I've yet to hear a better one though.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dat wrote:
nyteryda wrote:
On the topic of Postcount..,
I think, although probably impossible, a kama voting system would be better... i will explain...

Should PersonB posts a reply to a personA's question in a support forum, there should be a little push button, "Give Karma", and if personA thinks was helpfull to him, he should click the button, and PersonB's Karma points go up, and if a person act's like a knob on the forums, the mods (and only the mods) should be able to remove some of his karma points.

Thus the points are based on respect not on crap.


I agree with that 100%. I mentioned it before on another thread somewhere that (atleast OTW) should be based on the /. karma style. Though I can see how it would apply to the support areas too. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible in phpBB. Is it?


Don't know, it is after all only code.
(removing all my lovely postcount is not supposed to be possible either :twisted: )
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Last edited by nyteryda on Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Syntaxis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT:

Bleh, I'm just reiterating what I've said before. Post blanked unless I can rewrite it in a more insightful fashion.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syntaxis wrote:
dat wrote:
It doesn't change the fact that someone with a higher postcount is more active in the non-otw forums (as opposed to someone with a postcount of 0). *Generally* this means that they have been more helpful in support threads and have a higher probability of helping me out. How do you think they got so many posts to begin with?

It's trivially easy to come up with example scenarios where this doesn't hold true. Okay:
There are two posters who both post helpful responses in support forums at approximately the same rate. Poster A has been here for two months; poster B has been here for one. Your generalisation would lead you to conclude that poster A is a more helpful individual than poster B, whereas in fact the difference in postcount is solely due to the fact that poster A has been around for a longer period of time.

I agree. Postcount does not accurately reflect "rate of helpful posts". But if someone has 3000 more posts than someone else and they've been around the same time, I'm still more likely to try their solution first. EDIT: It's really subconcious. It's not like I have some elaborate "helpful rate" formula.

EDIT: Syntaxis - I understand what you're saying and I actually agree with you. But, you have to understand that postcounts aren't completely worthless (at least now that the OTW posts don't count).
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Last edited by dat on Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:24 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syntaxis wrote:
EDIT:

Bleh, I'm just reiterating what I've said before. Post blanked unless I can rewrite it in a more insightful fashion.

Oh just as i quoted you it changed, o well i will say what i was going to.

1) I don't think you should base your reponses on what someones postcount is
2) I do however like postcounts, i spent far to long playing on RPG and stuff not too (its just a shame I don't get a bigger space for my avatar or something when i level-up) . its just nice being able to watch them go up, yeah maybe in reality it means nothing, but its nice and most of us don't live in reality anyway.
3) Posting on forums is supposed to be fun or worthwhile, otherwise whats the point of doing it ? (and i am talking about people helping others not those asking questions).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
ag_x wrote:
No, the problem is what you are doing for this.
So your suggestion is to ban a user that you think is a troll, when it might just be someone you disagree with? I'm not saying our solution is perfect. I've yet to hear a better one though.

I m against of these solutions(bans).
I m against of the current moderation.
Find the right people for the job,i already nonimated one (curtis).
Keep away the other mods away from otw,with some exceptions(i already nonimated plate).
Keep the rules simple.
Code:
Fuck *
moron
arshole.

*=you,your mother,your country,your religion,your flag...etc.

Let us to deside about members who never clear violate the rules,give us responbilities.
Ban all the postcount the way mozillazine already do or with a hack to phpbb the way nyteryda suggested.
Try this schema for a month.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ag_x wrote:
I m against of these solutions(bans).
Then what is the point of moderation if there isn't any banning as the result of not abiding by the Guidelines?

ag_x wrote:
I m against of the current moderation.
Find the right people for the job,i already nonimated one (curtis).
Additional moderators for OTW is being considered, its been posted about a couple of times.

ag_x wrote:
Keep away the other mods away from otw
Uhm, no.

ag_x wrote:
Keep the rules simple.
Code:
Fuck *
moron
arshole.

*=you,your mother,your country,your religion,your flag...etc.
If the rules are simple, then the "professional trolls" remain. The simple rules are easy to moderate. The rules that are not simple is where people start to complain.

This is just a rehash of things that have been said many times before though.

ag_x wrote:
Ban all the postcount the way mozillazine already do or with a hack to phpbb the way nyteryda suggested.
phpbb hacks are kept to a minimum.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jesus f.. chr..
you doodes are discussing pages over pages in this thread, about the sense of an OFF TOPIC area, in a support forum on a free basis where noone is able to demand anything at all anyway, right?
excuse me, but this sux, doesnt it?
there are plenty forums out there to discuss god and the world - so wheres your f.... problem?
IMHO this thread should be closed.
My2Cents

btw, the topic of OTW is/was:
Want to talk about Linux issues not related to Gentoo? Or anything else not related to Gentoo? Post it here

this should be changed to:
Want to talk about Linux issues not related to Gentoo? Post it here

and everyone is fine, right?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Then what is the point of moderation if there isn't any banning as the result of not abiding by the Guidelines?

mod·er·ate
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin moderatus, from past participle of moderare to moderate; akin to Latin modus measure
1 a : avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits


It needs a physical talent you know.
A man or woman who others will respect him for his-her personality,and not of fearing,because he carries a whip or a hammer.As far i know current moderators had lost this respect a while ago,for the case you dont already know that.
For instance if plate would say to me,STFU,i will cloce my mouth because i respect him.Respect is something different from the title.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nyteryda wrote:
On the topic of Postcount..,
I think, although probably impossible, a kama voting system would be better... i will explain...

Should PersonB posts a reply to a personA's question in a support forum, there should be a little push button, "Give Karma", and if personA thinks was helpful to him, he should click the button, and PersonB's Karma points go up, and if a person act's like a knob on the forums, the mods (and only the mods) should be able to remove some of his karma points.

Thus the points are based on respect not on crap.


third that! that would be a useful system!
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dat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ag_x wrote:
pjp wrote:
Then what is the point of moderation if there isn't any banning as the result of not abiding by the Guidelines?

mod·er·ate
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin moderatus, from past participle of moderare to moderate; akin to Latin modus measure
1 a : avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits


It needs a physical talent you know.
A man or woman who others will respect him for his-her personality,and not of fearing,because he carries a whip or a hammer.As far i know current moderators had lost this respect a while ago,for the case you dont already know that.
For instance if plate would say to me,STFU,i will cloce my mouth because i respect him.Respect is something different from the title.


It sounds like you're using the wrong form of the word. I think you're looking for the verb. :lol:
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ag_x wrote:
A man or woman who others will respect him for his-her personality,and not of fearing,because he carries a whip or a hammer.
Perhaps you are new here. It hasn't worked in the past.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadlock and pointless.
I think i will STFU.
Thank you for your co-operation.
Good luck.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ennead wrote:
My own .. rarely humble opinion :P ...
As always, a perfectly reasoned one. Ennead, you are one of the people on OTW for whom I have the utmost respect. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Gonzo wrote:
The Ennead wrote:
My own .. rarely humble opinion :P ...
As always, a perfectly reasoned one. Ennead, you are one of the people on OTW for whom I have the utmost respect. Thanks.


I agree wholeheartedly. The Ennead, keep those great posts coming.

--------------

ag_x wrote:
.....It needs a physical talent you know.
A man or woman who others will respect him for his-her personality,and not of fearing,because he carries a whip or a hammer.As far i know current moderators had lost this respect a while ago,for the case you dont already know that.
For instance if plate would say to me,STFU,i will cloce my mouth because i respect him.Respect is something different from the title.



I agree that plate is well respected by everyone. I can't think of a single instance that anyone has ever bashed on him. However, the rest of the mods are respected. Maybe not by everyone but there is a core group of OTWers that respect ALL the mods.

pjp is the mod who takes the most flak so i will use him as an example: pjp donates a hell of a lot of his personal time to moderate these forums. I have agreed with everyone of his choices to date. His decisions are valid and based on the well laid out guidelines. Most people think he is picking on people he doesn't like but that is outrageous. If you violate the guidelines then pjp is well within his power to take action against you. If he does then you have no basis in screaming "He's biased!" because you shouldn't have made the violation to begin with. Your bad, not his.

Moderators don't read every single post. Most of the time their actions are based on a users input. If someone points out a violation then they act on it. It's not their fault that certain users are more apt to report those violations than other users. Or that certain users choose to report the violations of those they don't like. The violations are still violations regardless.


Ugh! This thread is getting tedious and I'm starting to repeat myself.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis119 wrote:
Ugh! This thread is getting tedious and I'm starting to repeat myself.
And I think that is a good place to end the the thread before it gets too far away from its original purpose.

Thanks everyone for constructive criticism and input.

For the short-term, we'll see how the lack of postcount works. I'm sure something more will be needed though. In the meantime, there is the new sticky thread to report issue specific to OTW, and we are considering moderators dedicated to OTW.

Do expect more strict action to REPORTED violations. Unfortunately, there is not yet a solution to the lack of clarity when it comes to the grey area.
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