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| Should everyone use UTF8 for posting in the forums? |
| Of course! |
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81% |
[ 161 ] |
| I think everyone should choose the encoding he likes |
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11% |
[ 23 ] |
| What is UTF8? |
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6% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 197 |
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Flammie
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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 Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Deathwing00 wrote: | | ISO specifications are fine... |
You are correct. Let's convert the whole board to ISO 10646 character coding at once  |
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SPW
Guru
Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 318
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Deathwing00 wrote: | | I disagree on this one. ISO specifications are fine to me. BTW, where is the poll option "we don't need UTF-8"? |
Well, if we were on /. I would say "Don't complain about lack of options. You've got to pick a few when you do multiple choice. Those are the breaks."
And ISO specifications are quite vast, what do you propose? ISO-8859-15? |
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Deathwing00
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4087
Location: Dresden, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| SPW wrote: | | Deathwing00 wrote: | | I disagree on this one. ISO specifications are fine to me. BTW, where is the poll option "we don't need UTF-8"? |
Well, if we were on /. I would say "Don't complain about lack of options. You've got to pick a few when you do multiple choice. Those are the breaks."
And ISO specifications are quite vast, what do you propose? ISO-8859-15? |
I propose all of them, of course. For Greek, 8859-7, for general latin 8859-15, and so on. |
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SPW
Guru
Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 318
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Deathwing00 wrote: |
I propose all of them, of course. For Greek, 8859-7, for general latin 8859-15, and so on. |
Well, in fact that's a possibility, but involves constant switching of encodings (shouldn't be too much of a pain though as the browser should do that automatically) and I guess for Chinese we need UTF8, so why not do everything in UTF8 and have a coherent forum?  |
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Deathwing00
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4087
Location: Dresden, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I already gave you my opinion. You cannot force anyone to use what you want. Additionally UTF-8 is far for complete IMAO. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| SPW wrote: | | I guess for Chinese we need UTF8, so why not do everything in UTF8 and have a coherent forum? |
Because it was a hack to support a specific set of users. There is no compelling reason to switch to UTF8 forum wide.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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SPW
Guru
Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 318
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Deathwing00 wrote: | | I already gave you my opinion. You cannot force anyone to use what you want. Additionally UTF-8 is far for complete IMAO. |
Well, I also gave you my opinion and I tried to find out what are the preferences of other people. That's why I created this thread. Only to see how many people have the same opinion, and I guess it's a majority. That having been said I would never force anyone... |
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Deathwing00
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4087
Location: Dresden, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Take it to OTW then. |
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ian!
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 3829
Location: Essen, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Let me quote myself:
| ian! wrote: | | We'll have a look at implementing it and converting everything to UTF-8 in the future. But there is a long long way to go and we don't know if it's feasible for all users. |
IMHO switching to UTF-8 makes sense. UTF-8 is the future. All mayor browsers support UTF-8. Most users won't ever notice once we switch to UTF-8 because it works.
The mayor benefit will be that every user will have displayed chinese, english, german, greek posts correctly without manually switching to the proper encoding. Adding additional forums like japanese etc. will be much less a hassle then.
| ian! wrote: | | So don't expect it to happen within the next weeks. |
Expect it to happen within the next months.
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"To have a successful open source project, you need to be at least somewhat successful at getting along with people." -- Daniel Robbins |
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Little Nemo
l33t
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 623
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Deathwing00 wrote: | | I propose all of them, of course. For Greek, 8859-7, for general latin 8859-15, and so on. |
Problem is, there are pages where different encodings are actually mixed. This is true for all the index pages ("view unanswered posts" and so on) where each subject is listed in its original encoding. There is currently no way to display such a page correctly so that Chinese and Russian and French are displayed correctly. For some people who only use one language this is not so annoying, for others who are multi-lingual it is. UTF-8 would solve this problem, and I look forward to the conversion. |
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Deathwing00
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4087
Location: Dresden, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Please read the whole thread before posting. |
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Little Nemo
l33t
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 623
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Deathwing00 wrote: | | Please read the whole thread before posting. |
I did. What do you think I missed? |
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Deathwing00
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4087
Location: Dresden, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Little Nemo wrote: |
I did. What do you think I missed? |
| ian! wrote: | Let me quote myself:
| ian! wrote: | | We'll have a look at implementing it and converting everything to UTF-8 in the future. But there is a long long way to go and we don't know if it's feasible for all users. |
IMHO switching to UTF-8 makes sense. UTF-8 is the future. All mayor browsers support UTF-8. Most users won't ever notice once we switch to UTF-8 because it works.
The mayor benefit will be that every user will have displayed chinese, english, german, greek posts correctly without manually switching to the proper encoding. Adding additional forums like japanese etc. will be much less a hassle then.
| ian! wrote: | | So don't expect it to happen within the next weeks. |
Expect it to happen within the next months. |
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lefsha
Veteran
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 1234
Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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UTF-8 is great!!!
Only native english speakers can't
understand this.
For example for russian we have
at least 6 encodings:
IBM-855
ISO-8859-5
ISO-R-111
KOI8-R
MacCyrillic
CP866
It a big problem if open a site and see
the text you can't read.
Or if you see some part of web page in
one encoding and other part in other...
That is why I love Google!
Google is completely UTF-8
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Lefsha |
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Flammie
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| lefsha wrote: | That is why I love Google!
Google is completely UTF-8 |
Uhh, google's search engine is nice with its UTF-8 support, but the major borkage with charsets in groups.google.com and other google's subprojects is just ugly...
Back on topic, isn't it a few months since December already, ian!? |
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Deathwing00
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4087
Location: Dresden, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a look at the GWN or some recent posts, you'll notice that our admins are already on it.  |
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ian!
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 3829
Location: Essen, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Flammie wrote: | | Back on topic, isn't it a few months since December already, ian!? |
It's still on my todo-list. But switching the whole forums to UTF-8 isn't something you do on a sunday evening. It's a big step.
Some other (more important) points are already done and the forums software will be updated very soon.
Switching to UTF-8 will follow (and will cause a forums downtime of several hours as far as I can tell at the moment). An announcement will be made when we're ready.
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"To have a successful open source project, you need to be at least somewhat successful at getting along with people." -- Daniel Robbins |
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quiris
n00b
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| codergeek42 wrote: | | Meh. To each their own I guess, but W3C's XHTML recommendation suggests using only ASCII characters and entities for anything non-ASCII, that way the UA (user-agent) can interpret them as needed. /shrug |
I am absolutely sure you are completly wrong. Can I have a quote from the XHTML recommendation you have been based on?
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Best Regards
Robert Blaut |
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c07
Veteran
Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 1091
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| plate wrote: | The forum software does the conversion to plain ASCII for XHTML compliance for you. Enter Japanese in UTF-8, hit the preview button and look at the edit window: 日本語 becomes | Code: | | & #26085; & #26412; & #35486; |
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AFAIK, that's just a Mozilla bug. It sends the HTML escape sequence for characters that are not representable in the document character set (or the character set specified by <form accept-charset="...">). The forum software seems to exploit this bug and leaves such codes unescaped, so they become visible as the intended character.
---
Please do not start to post in UTF-8 except in the Chinese forum yet. It will make a decent transition to UTF-8 impossible. |
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Flammie
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Humm... now that ian! is "gone", is there anyone working on UTF-8 conversion anymore? |
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kallamej
Administrator
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 4975
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Flammie wrote: | | Humm... now that ian! is "gone", is there anyone working on UTF-8 conversion anymore? |
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-320533.html
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ian!
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 3829
Location: Essen, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I've provided him all the scripts and stuff I've been working on.
So stay tuned.
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"To have a successful open source project, you need to be at least somewhat successful at getting along with people." -- Daniel Robbins |
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Riklaunim
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 286
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: forum in utf-8? |
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If forum would use UTF-8 as default charset there wouldn't be problems with other languages... forcing charset in konqueror isn't a nice way...
To get everything in UTF-8:
1. set utf-8 charset in <HEAD> of the forum
2. convert all data in the database (posts) from iso to utf-8 using simple code/class (if the DB doesn't use utf-8 on stored data)
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ian!
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 3829
Location: Essen, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: Re: forum in utf-8? |
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| Riklaunim wrote: | | 2. convert all data in the database (posts) from iso to utf-8 using simple code/class (if the DB doesn't use utf-8 on stored data) |
It doesn't and that's the real tricky part of the conversion. The conversion scripts are finished. We'll have another update or two before we'll switch the forums to utf-8. - But it will happen.. soon..
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"To have a successful open source project, you need to be at least somewhat successful at getting along with people." -- Daniel Robbins |
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Flammie
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: forum in utf-8? |
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| Riklaunim wrote: | To get everything in UTF-8:
1. set utf-8 charset in <HEAD> of the forum
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The proper place is actually in the server's HTTP response. Head meta tag should only be used as plan b if server can't be controlled.
| ian1 wrote: | | It doesn't and that's the real tricky part of the conversion. The conversion scripts are finished. We'll have another update or two before we'll switch the forums to utf-8. - But it will happen.. soon.. |
Soon soon soon yay! The forums' main page is by the way already broken with Polish stuff. |
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