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henke
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:12 am    Post subject: Howto: annoy a spammer Reply with quote


It's the small spiteful things like this that just make life bearable from time to time ;)


:twisted:
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: Howto: annoy a spammer Reply with quote

henke wrote:

It's the small spiteful things like this that just make life bearable from time to time ;)


:twisted:


I saw that too, I loved it!
He wasn''t too happy about all the shit he received. LOL I wonder why he thinks we are more happy with the shit he sends out!

Erik
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lx
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"They've signed me up for every advertising campaign and mailing list there is," he told me. "These people are out of their minds. They're harassing me."


ROFL, serves him right, the freakin bastard.
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pilla
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hate spam... but snail mail can be even more annoying. It is harder to decide whether it is junk or not, many times you need to open it before thrashing it. It is a good lession for this guy, maybe he will like some of his own remedy :)
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pizen
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read those articles including the original one about the guy. I was most annoyed about the part at the end.
Quote:
Ralsky, meanwhile, is looking at new technology. Recently he's been talking to two computer programmers in Romania who have developed what could be called stealth spam.

It is intricate computer software, said Ralsky, that can detect computers that are online and then be programmed to flash them a pop-up ad, much like the kind that display whenever a particular Web site is opened.

"This is even better," he said. "You don't have to be on a Web site at all. You can just have your computer on, connected to the Internet, reading e-mail or just idling and, bam, this program detects your presence and up pops the message on your screen, past firewalls, past anti-spam programs, past anything.

"Isn't technology great?"

I was worried about this until I remembered that I run Linux. I am intrigued by it, though.
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pilla
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting concept. Maybe if you can sniff packets with HTTP requests, you can forge a reply with your spam... classic man-in-the-middle. Then even Linux users would have problems...

pizen wrote:
I read those articles including the original one about the guy. I was most annoyed about the part at the end.
Quote:
Ralsky, meanwhile, is looking at new technology. Recently he's been talking to two computer programmers in Romania who have developed what could be called stealth spam.

It is intricate computer software, said Ralsky, that can detect computers that are online and then be programmed to flash them a pop-up ad, much like the kind that display whenever a particular Web site is opened.

"This is even better," he said. "You don't have to be on a Web site at all. You can just have your computer on, connected to the Internet, reading e-mail or just idling and, bam, this program detects your presence and up pops the message on your screen, past firewalls, past anti-spam programs, past anything.

"Isn't technology great?"

I was worried about this until I remembered that I run Linux. I am intrigued by it, though.
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masseya
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody Bastard wrote:
I really hate spam... but snail mail can be even more annoying. It is harder to decide whether it is junk or not, many times you need to open it before thrashing it. It is a good lession for this guy, maybe he will like some of his own remedy :)

Here are a few tips for dealing with snail mail. If you get a business reply envelope and something to fill out and then stuff in there, save it until you get another one. Then swap the stuffing without filling it out and put them in each other's envelope. Then mail it back. ;) If everyone did this there would be no junk mail because it would be too expensive.

Also, if you get advertisements along with your bills like I do with my cell phone, you can send those back with your payment. ooops..

As for HTML pop-ups and 'just being online', this would probably not be worthwhile because someone who was going to do that would probably have to break a few laws to hack close enough to your computer to do this. There are a few reasons for this, but they are not as important as the fact that it's simply not worthwhile to advertise to one person. If it was a huge ISP and there was a chance that they could advertise to many, many people this might be a different story. However, I still don't think this thing would happen.

If you are going to break the law for the sake of advertising there are better and more effective ways to do this. There's a computer science professor at Purdue (Gene Spafford) who's well known for his quote on credit card transactions online. I'm going to paraphrase it because I'm lazy. :) He says that SSL is like using an armored car to trasfer money from a guy living on a park bench to a guy operating a business out of a cardboard box. Which part of this operation would you attack? Certainly you wouldn't go after the SSL transfer. Perhaps you would go after the guy on the park bench, but then you only get one person's money. (This is the case with using a man in the middle attack to display an HTML pop-up on a single computer.) The logical conclusion is to attack the guy doing business out of a cardboard box. That's what you have to worry about. Is your credit card sitting under a cardboard box with several thousand other credit cards just like it waiting to be taken?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pizen wrote:
I read those articles including the original one about the guy. I was most annoyed about the part at the end.
Quote:
Ralsky, meanwhile, is looking at new technology. Recently he's been talking to two computer programmers in Romania who have developed what could be called stealth spam.

It is intricate computer software, said Ralsky, that can detect computers that are online and then be programmed to flash them a pop-up ad, much like the kind that display whenever a particular Web site is opened.

"This is even better," he said. "You don't have to be on a Web site at all. You can just have your computer on, connected to the Internet, reading e-mail or just idling and, bam, this program detects your presence and up pops the message on your screen, past firewalls, past anti-spam programs, past anything.

"Isn't technology great?"

I was worried about this until I remembered that I run Linux. I am intrigued by it, though.


It's definitely out there already. At work, I use a Win2K box. I recieved a "Windows Messaging" pop-up ad for University diplomas from non-accredited universities.... Here's the kicker: I'm currently pursuing a double major in "Engineering Mechanics & Astronautics" and "Computer Science." My job is a database programmer for a department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (where I attend).

At first, it made me laugh. But then I received the same message a few days later. Then I got pissed.

It turns out that the term "stealth spam" lives up to its name... partly. Under normal system conditions, this message is sent via "Windows Messaging," something completely different from "Windows Messenger" (the aim-clone). I knew the difference, but I'm sure not many people do. The stealth part comes in from the protocol. No reply address. Once the packet(s) is(are) parsed, the source IP is discarded. The ONLY way I know of that detects the message's origin is by setting up a firewall (internal or external) to log traffic. Too much of a pain in the arse, so I disabled the Windows Messaging service. Problem solved.
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lx
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody Bastard wrote:
I really hate spam... but snail mail can be even more annoying. It is harder to decide whether it is junk or not, many times you need to open it before thrashing it. It is a good lession for this guy, maybe he will like some of his own remedy :)


I don't know what kind of spam c.q. not-spam you receive, but I can always deduce it's spam from the sender alone (ASUYHF23498@hotmail.com etc or my own adres c.q. local domain) besides Spamassassin, filters most junk mail out. Well I only receive tree spam mails a day (sometimes this increases when replying on something (linuxtoday)), I have two easy aliases using two and tree letters, and most of the time receive the spam on both accounts, ;-)

Cya lX.
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lx
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carambola5 wrote:
Under normal system conditions, this message is sent via "Windows Messaging," The stealth part comes in from the protocol. No reply address. Once the packet(s) is(are) parsed, the source IP is discarded.

Looks like a bug to me, although Microsoft probably calls it a feature, looks strange that somebody can just abuse a service for commercial gain. Why is this open anyway and why isn't it protected for none local use?

Cya lX.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't know what kind of spam c.q. not-spam you receive, but I can always deduce it's spam from the sender alone (ASUYHF23498@hotmail.com etc or my own adres c.q. local domain)


Usually you can, but occasionally you'll get an e-mail entitled "Hey, what's up." from sender "Chris" or something stupidly generic like that. :evil:
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lx
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeon wrote:
Usually you can, but occasionally you'll get an e-mail entitled "Hey, what's up." from sender "Chris" or something stupidly generic like that. :evil:


Luckly I use procmail filter, and I've added all my known email-adresses, and if it's real spam Spam-Assassin filters it out. Luckly I also have a virus-filter, cause that are the ones that use a friends mail adres, but all virus I have had don't work on linux anyway, :cry: , we always get excluded.

Ps I'm dutch, and most spam is in english (although I sometimes receive weird text that don't render correctly, maybe japanese or similar), so I can spot it more easly if somebody sents me a mail with "Hey, what's up". Well I sometimes get dutch spam because they send it to all two / three letter combinations at large dutch domains, but well it always get filtered.

Cya lX.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:06 pm    Post subject: A great spambot killer Reply with quote

Here is a nice little script to make life a little more miserable for spammers:

Web Poison

It generates random pages of bogus email addresses, plus links to more pages of bogus addresses. That way, if a spambot finds your page, it will stay there forever, sending useless data back to the spammers database, and hopefully make his whole maling list useless.

Please use it if you've got a webpage!
:twisted:
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lx
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although it's a funny project, I don't think it's very effective and can easly be avoided, for one, pages are very similar, besides a crawler can detect that it remaims on the same server and a counter can be added. sample url http://www.monkeys.com/spammers-are-leeches/

Should find it more interresting to set up a couple of sites that link to each other etc. But still I think it can easily be avoided by spammers and what are the changes of trapping a spammers crawler??????

Cya lX.
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henke
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Graham has some interesting ideas about a new type of spam filter. Here is a link: A plan for Spam

Paul Graham wrote:
I think it's possible to stop spam, and that content-based filters are the way to do it. The Achilles heel of the spammers is their message. They can circumvent any other barrier you set up. They have so far, at least. But they have to deliver their message, whatever it is. If we can write software that recognizes their messages, there is no way they can get around that.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

henke wrote:
Paul Graham has some interesting ideas about a new type of spam filter. Here is a link: A plan for Spam

I have a question though, The majority of spam I receive (99.9%) is english while the majority of my legit mail is Dutch (97%), won't this pose a problem using such a statistic based algorithm (all legit english e-mails being marked as spam)?

useful link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/bogofilter :
Quote:
The bogofilter package implements a fast Bayesian spam filter along the lines suggested by Paul Graham in his article "A Plan For Spam" . It is written in C. Supported platforms: Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris and OS X.


There's a package in the portage tree (not the latest release yet though), maybe I will try it later, but for now Spam-Assassin takes out everything perfectly.


Cya lX.
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henke
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lx wrote:
I have a question though, The majority of spam I receive (99.9%) is english while the majority of my legit mail is Dutch (97%), won't this pose a problem using such a statistic based algorithm (all legit english e-mails being marked as spam)?


I actually have no idea. Mabey you would have to alter the algorithm a bit...
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 friends of mine received this message about the university degrees too!!!
one even got it several times!!!
They're both on skynet, that's a belgian ISP.
It's REALLY annoying not to mention that it's illegal.
Well, i suppose windows users got to pay the price ;)
disabling windows messaging was my problem-solver too but he sometimes uses that when he's attending LAN's...
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pilla
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I inserted a new filter in my Evolution so mails with many usernames like mine in the subject line would be deleted. I did something wrong, and it was deleting everything until I discovered it in the end of the day 8)

Now I am looking forward to find a way to filter it in a smart way. My problem is that I am using a notebook which can be attached to a LAN or by a dial-up connection.

I guess that SpamAssassin and other filters were developed for mail servers. Do I need to set up a mail server in my notebook (with something like procmail) or can I use it with my regular email client? How is the setup cost?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To stop the windows messenger stuff just disable the "Messenger" service in Windows (kill Winpopup if you're running 9x). If they can get at that then you're probably wide open to a whole range of attacks (there was something on Slashdot - maybe the Register about this approach to Spam. There is a company out there that produces software to do it it - just hits whole ranges of IPs looking for the messenger port).

The "pop up whenever" stuff is just spyware. It's been around for a while (Gator etc) and is pretty nasty. It logs your web accesses and then pops up "appropriate" adverts.

The best bit is that you have to agree to let them do this. You install an inocuous piece of sw on your box and the license agreement signs you up to receive such rubbish. Nice eh.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody Bastard wrote:
Yesterday I inserted a new filter in my Evolution so mails with many usernames like mine in the subject line would be deleted. I did something wrong, and it was deleting everything until I discovered it in the end of the day 8)

Now I am looking forward to find a way to filter it in a smart way. My problem is that I am using a notebook which can be attached to a LAN or by a dial-up connection.

I guess that SpamAssassin and other filters were developed for mail servers. Do I need to set up a mail server in my notebook (with something like procmail) or can I use it with my regular email client? How is the setup cost?


They are not for mail-server but for endusers.
I use spam assassin as a filter in Kmail, works like a charm.

Erik
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pilla
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting... how did you set up it?

ebrostig wrote:
Bloody Bastard wrote:
Yesterday I inserted a new filter in my Evolution so mails with many usernames like mine in the subject line would be deleted. I did something wrong, and it was deleting everything until I discovered it in the end of the day 8)

Now I am looking forward to find a way to filter it in a smart way. My problem is that I am using a notebook which can be attached to a LAN or by a dial-up connection.

I guess that SpamAssassin and other filters were developed for mail servers. Do I need to set up a mail server in my notebook (with something like procmail) or can I use it with my regular email client? How is the setup cost?


They are not for mail-server but for endusers.
I use spam assassin as a filter in Kmail, works like a charm.

Erik
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody Bastard wrote:
Interesting... how did you set up it?

There's a page over at the kde site that discusses how to configure kmail and spamassassin to play nicely together.

ebrostig wrote:
They are not for mail-server but for endusers.

SpamAssassin, at least, can be used at both the MUA and MTA level and works well in both cases. If you start trying to put a whole bunch of mail through SpamAssassin (i.e. 10,000+ messages per day) you'll definitely notice the increased load on your server, but otherwise, it's a great tool.

One comment for anyone who uses SpamAssassin: please contribute your spam to Razor to help make SA that much more effective. You do this by piping a spam email to 'spamassassin -r', which handles the rest for you. For mutt users, you can create a macro that seamlessly shoots a bunch of messages off to SA in a fire'n'forget sort of thing.

--kurt
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
One comment for anyone who uses SpamAssassin: please contribute your spam to Razor to help make SA that much more effective. You do this by piping a spam email to 'spamassassin -r', which handles the rest for you. For mutt users, you can create a macro that seamlessly shoots a bunch of messages off to SA in a fire'n'forget sort of thing.
--kurt


Quote:
Upon receiving a spam, a Reporting Agent (run by an end-user or a troll box) calculates and submits a 20-character unique identification of the spam (a SHA Digest) to its closest Catalogue Server.


My problem is that this in my view is easly defeated; by adding a number cq. unique character combination in spam-mail, thereby giving a differt identification number;
Secondly I hate that bandwidth is being wasted by spam so I don't want to add bandwidth by sending (although small) the number c.q. retrieving the database (which probably is enormous by now)

Still I'm not against it, but this is my reason why I don't use it, I'm rather donate my spam to the spam research site (of which I lost the URL), the latter would provide better tested filters, (although I don't think I have the most spam / that I am the first to receive new spam)

Cya lX.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I setup SpamAssassin with evolution, and posted a min-micro-howto in the Documentation, Tips & Tricks forum. You can see it here.
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