Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
What's the benifit of using gentoo?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
colag
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: What's the benifit of using gentoo? Reply with quote

What's the benifit of using gentoo?
What's special about gentoo over other linux distrobution?
It just installs packages from source. So what else?
What can i learn/know more from using gentoo.
Am i missing something?

NOTE: I'm using gentoo, but i can't get anything extra or something different than other linux distrobution except the installing from source issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hypnos
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2868
Location: Omnipresent

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compiling from source allows you to change compile-time features or apply your own patches to change functionality.

Gentoo makes this easy with USE flags and overlays. This is why I use Gentoo.

If you are happy with other distributions as they are delivered to you, then you probably have nothing to gain by using Gentoo.
_________________
Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
colag
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
Compiling from source allows you to change compile-time features or apply your own patches to change functionality.

Gentoo makes this easy with USE flags and overlays. This is why I use Gentoo.

If you are happy with other distributions as they are delivered to you, then you probably have nothing to gain by using Gentoo.

If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anb.clarke
n00b
n00b


Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:?

Last edited by anb.clarke on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:25 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disi
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Out There ...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installation goes for me like this:

0. what architecture do I want to install on?
1. do I use GPT or DOS partitions or rather LVM or ZFS or some RAID setup or a combination of these?!?
2. what kernel do I use? Do I go for some Linux flavour or rather BSD or XBOX?
3. what filesystem might I use?!?
4. what bootloader...
5. what init system might I use...
6. what system logger, cron daemon etc.
6. actual this all interconnects and is dependend on each other
7. once you have something put together, you read of something much cooler to toy with and the cycle begings again...

Usually my Gentoo boxes are rock solid and more reliable that other distros. This might be not true, though. Because if I change something on Gentoo I do not expect it to work and it is easy for me to fix it, since I know my system and know what I changed. In other distributions the underlying OS is more like the big unknown and if something breaks you rely on other people to fix it...

Once you got all this freedom and then swap to other distributions, most people come back after a while. :idea:
_________________
Gentoo on Uptime Project - Larry is a cow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
colag
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anb.clarke wrote:
Compare Crunchbang and Gentoo and i think you'll get to an answer..

Crunchbang :: Fast, easy to use and maintain. But deb packages are built for you = less adaptable/harder to fix on your own

Gentoo :: Fast, easy to use and maintain. But Portage/Overlays are dynamically flexible = more adaptable/easier to fix on your own

If you want to use generic software i'd go with Crunchbang (or a similar alternative).
If after use Portage for a while no advantages seem apparent then i'd suggest one of three things is occuring:

A : Your not using portage/overlays to full effect.
B : You haven't yet written your first ebuild.
C : You haven't yet run ufed.

Just a opinion. :wink:

What is ufed?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hypnos
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2868
Location: Omnipresent

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

colag wrote:
If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package.

First, that's not true, because if I don't like how the Gentoo devs do something for some package, I can put my own ebuild in an overlay. Second, if the developers do include the flexibility I need, and it's as simple as just changing some USE flags, isn't that good? The developers do all the work, and I get all the benefit!

I don't know of any binary distribution that makes it so easy to change things through custom compilations, and then rebuild other packages to resolve inconsistencies (e.g., revdep-rebuild).
_________________
Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anb.clarke
n00b
n00b


Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:?

Last edited by anb.clarke on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
colag
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
colag wrote:
If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package.

First, that's not true, because if I don't like how the Gentoo devs do something for some package, I can put my own ebuild in an overlay. Second, if the developers do include the flexibility I need, and it's as simple as just changing some USE flags, isn't that good? The developers do all the work, and I get all the benefit!

I don't know of any binary distribution that makes it so easy to change things through custom compilations, and then rebuild other packages to resolve inconsistencies (e.g., revdep-rebuild).

Ok, I understand.
But if you use your own .ebuild then would you get gentoo support for that package?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anb.clarke
n00b
n00b


Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's your own ebuild, on your own system then surely "support - as it's available" would come from whatever sources you use, no?

User-submitted ebuilds:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=3&chap=1


Last edited by anb.clarke on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hypnos
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2868
Location: Omnipresent

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

colag wrote:
But if you use your own .ebuild then would you get gentoo support for that package?

No. However, if it's an important modification or new ebuild, I submit it to the Gentoo devs on Bugzilla.

For example, I'm the proxy maintainer for x11-misc/ktsuss. (bug #401123)
_________________
Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disi
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Out There ...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
colag wrote:
But if you use your own .ebuild then would you get gentoo support for that package?

No. However, if it's an important modification or new ebuild, I submit it to the Gentoo devs on Bugzilla.

For example, I'm the proxy maintainer for x11-misc/ktsuss. (bug #401123)


I push from time to time this one: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396253
But it never makes it into portage as it looks like :(
_________________
Gentoo on Uptime Project - Larry is a cow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hypnos
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2868
Location: Omnipresent

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disi wrote:
I push from time to time this one: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396253
But it never makes it into portage as it looks like :(

I guess beandog is too busy to deal with it. I think the devs are generally good at maintaining ebuilds for software that's important to many users (e.g., core system, desktop environments), and then everything else depends on personal interest and free time.

To get more focused support, you can maintain your own overlay (by yourself or with friends using a VCS), or you can interact with the maintainers of the Gentoo overlays.
_________________
Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fpemud
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my experience, linux distro which provides compiled package like ubuntu is good, but there's must be some seldom case you must compile something yourself.

This is really difficult, especially I must solve the dependency myself. The denpendency is a big number, generally over ten packages.

In gentoo, portage supports comilation, so when I must compile something, I could write ebuild.
I could only write how to compile my package, and the dependency can be automatically done by portage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
colag
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: What's the basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware? Reply with quote

Both install packages from source.
What's the basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerard82
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 2229
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judging by your posts I think you really ought to read Gentoo docs.
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml?desc=1
The handbook is not enough.
Gerard.
_________________
To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xaviermiller
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 5623
Location: ~Brussels - Belgique

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Please don't start new topics for the same thing...
_________________
Kind regards,
Xavier Miller
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fpemud
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I use fedora and ubuntu, there're a lot of packages which I think I will never use. But there is always some strange dependency.
The disk space is not a issue, but I feel uncomfortable.

If I want to remove the deps, the only way is modify the compile option of packages.
But in binary distro there's no way to do this.

I heared about LFS and moved to it and failed, LFS is too difficult.
Then fortunately I found gentoo is a kind of automated LFS. So I am using gentoo.

I think my system is clear in gentoo, I know how every package and lib works for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
colag
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XavierMiller wrote:
Hello,

Please don't start new topics for the same thing...

What same thing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fpemud
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In another point of view, linux provides user choice, but windows doesn't.
To me it is the core value of open source.

distro like ubuntu or fedora provides choice on installation and configuration.
gentoo provides more choice, which is compilation options.

I think currently no system provides more choice than gentoo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xaviermiller
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 5623
Location: ~Brussels - Belgique

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Semantically, your questions are different. But they are the same: "Is Gentoo for me?".
_________________
Kind regards,
Xavier Miller
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disi
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Out There ...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
disi wrote:
I push from time to time this one: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396253
But it never makes it into portage as it looks like :(

I guess beandog is too busy to deal with it. I think the devs are generally good at maintaining ebuilds for software that's important to many users (e.g., core system, desktop environments), and then everything else depends on personal interest and free time.

To get more focused support, you can maintain your own overlay (by yourself or with friends using a VCS), or you can interact with the maintainers of the Gentoo overlays.


Thanks, I will certainly have a look but I don't think overlays are the answer to broken packages in portage...
http://znurt.org/search.php?search=&q=makemkv&x=0&y=0
_________________
Gentoo on Uptime Project - Larry is a cow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John R. Graham
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 7889
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
colag wrote:
If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package.

First, that's not true, because if I don't like how the Gentoo devs do something for some package, I can put my own ebuild in an overlay. Second, if the developers do include the flexibility I need, and it's as simple as just changing some USE flags, isn't that good? The developers do all the work, and I get all the benefit!
It's not, "Just not true," only because you can hack the ebuild. It's also just not true because the USE flag mechanism is most typically used to directly expose the package's build options. When you make a USE flag change, you're selecting from the configurability the package author exposed. Gentoo is just the friendly middleman, making it easy.

- John
_________________
I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 999 National Security Letters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John R. Graham
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 7889
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

colag wrote:
Both install packages from source.
What's the basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware?
Slackware is a binary distribution: installing a package in Slackware does not compile it from source. And that is at least one basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware:
  • Gentoo: Source-based distribution. Focuses on configurability, customizability, and being up to date.
  • Slackware: binary distribution. Focuses on stability.
The underlying driving philosophy behind both distributions is available on their respective web pages. Take a gander. :wink:

- John
_________________
I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 999 National Security Letters.


Last edited by John R. Graham on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Apheus
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched from Fedora to Gentoo after one Fedora upgrade left too many things broken, and my main reasons for staying with Gentoo are:

1. Rolling release. Fedora upgrades were officially unsupported, and I do not like reinstalling and -customizing
2. Stability. Gentoo is rather conservative on when version x of software y enters the "declared to be stable"-stage. Unlike Fedora, but without being as extremely old as Debian stable (Firefox 3.5.x? wtf?)
3. Quality of documentation. At least in 2008. Some documentation might be outdated by now, since the hal-udev- and openrc move. But this will be sorted out.

When I switched to Gentoo I did not know about Arch Linux, or Debian testing. The OpenSuSE tumbleweed repo was not yet around.

You see, the source- and compiling thing is not one of my main reasons. I do not know if I would miss this flexibility.

Also, in another thread I read the statement "With Gentoo, everything just makes sense." And this is true. The organization of services, configuration files and everything is well thought and to-the-point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum