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xcable
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:08 pm    Post subject: Nvidia -vs- ATI laptops Reply with quote

Having a Nvidia workstation and an ATI laptop I can safely say never get a ATI based computer if your going to run linux on it. OpenGL performance is crap and TVout will not work. The Nvidia drivers (closed source - but nobodys perfect) work great and give great performance. Go with Nvidia you'll thank me latter.

If the guys/gals at ATI would get off there ass and write good drivers for there own chips I might consider geting and ATI card again some day.

heath
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Craigo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure you are aware there are ati linux drivers from ATi themselves but then I don't know what chipset you have in that laptop.

Most of all, tv out should be able to work if you use sys-apps/atitvout ?

-/Craigo/-
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sputnik1969
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but i don't think so!
My ATI Radeon 8500 works great under Linux with a great OpenGL-Perfomance...
Maybe the Gfx-Chip in your Laptop/Notebook is a lousy perfomer, but then it must be a RagePro/Rage128 Based solution, not Radeon-based... And running Opengl on a Riva128 or RivaTNT will also give lousy results ;)
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El_Presidente_Pufferfish
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Radeon Mobility works great with DRI

It performs great in UT and CS
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masseya
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving to Off the Wall as this is not a request for support.

As far as Nvidia vs. ATI, I think they are very comparable. Nvidia has had better support in the past because they have provided their own linux drivers (i don't particularly care that i don't have the source..). ATI has had better price/performance for their mobility chips. IMHO they are close enough that it is a personal choice more than a logical one. Which means it's great for a flamewar... With that in mind, please don't feed the trolls.
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zez
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radeon 8500 level cards and above have a new official ATI driver set for linux that supports UT2k3 w/ s3tc supposedly (prolly a little faster than DRI, too). Of course, the original radeon owners are left in the dust :evil:
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henke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tristam29 wrote:
Nvidia has had better support in the past because they have provided their own linux drivers (i don't particularly care that i don't have the source..). ATI has had better price/performance for their mobility chips.


We disagree on this one. Hardware is one thing i need to be open source

I wrote:
He is the Armada 7750MT, Compaq Laptop. Born in 1997 in the Highlands of Scotland, and he is still alive. He is Immortal. For 5 years, he's been a wordprocessor, a mp3 player, a web browser, constantly facing other Laptops to the death. The winner takes his enemy's hardrive and battery: and with it, his power. I am a Linux Neophyte, part of a secret society of men and women who observe and code, but never close the source. We know the truth about Immortals. In the end, there can be only one. May it be my Armada 7750MT, Compaq Laptop.


:twisted:

I have an old Compaq Armada Laptop that was spawned some time during last millenium... Both sound and graphics work great since there are good open source drivers.

How long are you planning on keeping your laptop? ATI and NVidida both provide drivers now but how about when you are running Gentoo 3.2 and with the 4.2 kernel?

I'm not familiar with ATI's driver architecture. IIRC NVidia has one driver for all their cards.

Might not this lead to the newer NVidia drivers still supporting the older NVidia cards since for each card the actual card specific code is relatively small part of the driver?
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Mnemia
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The concept of open source drivers makes sense in that it provides a way for old hardware to be supported forever as long as someone wants to work on it. But the open source drivers for ATI cards are just terrible. They don't support a lot of the features of the cards and the performance for OpenGL is way way below the Windows performance for the same card. I don't think ATI is really doing a good job of supporting open source if they are in fact helping at all with these drivers, because the drivers frankly suck.

Nvidia's closed source drivers have been spectacular for me, and they support very old hardware (TNT2). I'm not too worried that Nvidia is going to drop support for my card anytime before I won't want to use it any more.

ATI on the other hand with their new closed source drivers proved they don't care about anyone other than those with very new cards. They also aren't supporting laptop chipsets. I would never buy another ATI card for Linux if I had a choice but my laptop uses one so I can't change it.

IMHO this is typical of the way ATI treats their customers. If they can't support all the different cards easily then their driver code is not portable and modular. How hard can it be for the manufacturer of the card to write a decent driver for their own card??

Sorry, I'm a bit bitter here. ATI has just let me down one too many times.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that nvidia still regularly updates drivers for video cards that several years old and far past their useful commercial lifespan I say buying an nvidia card is a safe bet. (I just upgrade the drivers for my TNT2 a few days ago) I can't say the same for ATI's shoddy drivers however, open-source or not.

I'm perfectly willing to use closed-source software as long as said software works better in every respect. Would nvidia's drivers be better if they were open-source? Sure. Are ATI's open source drivers better than nvidia's closed source drivers? No.
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gsfgf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i went okd-skool radeon to geforce3ti200. tghe radeon had always had driver trouble even win win9x. it couldn't run ut2003. It displayed these weird lines on the screen.

the geforce has been sweet.
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eryvile
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Nvidia -vs- ATI laptops Reply with quote

xcable wrote:
Having a Nvidia workstation and an ATI laptop I can safely say never get a ATI based computer if your going to run linux on it. OpenGL performance is crap and TVout will not work.

I have an ATI workstation (Radeon7500) and an ATI laptop (Rage Mobility). As far as the laptop is concerned, I have to agree as for this video card only MesaSoft OpenGL is available :( But looking at my workstation, I am very happy with the OpenGL performance (no MesaSoft :) ) And as ATI is starting to publish Linux drivers for their newer products, I'd say, they're on the right track ... but it seems that those drivers' quality is pretty miserable :( oh well :roll:
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masseya
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to second Pigeon's comments. I think they are very well said. I would like to see nvidia open their drivers because I don't think it can hurt them from a business standpoint. By the time ATI reverse engineered and then fabbed anything from this, they would be at least one, possibly two, generations behind Nvidia. Why spend time paying smart people to rehash something that won't work as well as the next version of that same something produced by the people that created the original?

Does this mean that I'm not going to buy a product that seems to be well supported from a company that has proven it wants to support older products? No. It's still a good card.
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Mnemia
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that the main thing stopping NVIDIA from open sourcing their drivers is in fact the perception that ATI make shoddy drivers. The closed source makes it seem like NVIDIA drivers might have something that ATI doesn't, and allows that mystique to continue. People will believe this because they will think there must be a reason why NVIDIA needs secrecy. And maybe it's even true; maybe they really don't want ATI to be able to make better drivers (not cards necessarily) based on insights gained from NVIDIA's driver code. I think in some respects this is good marketing since the driver quality reputation is certainly working in NVIDIA's favor.
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