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Gentoo Foundation Website Redesign Finalists
Aaron Shi
46%
 46%  [ 1452 ]
Charles-Andre Landemaine - gencorp
15%
 15%  [ 475 ]
Charles-Andre Landemaine - gentech
10%
 10%  [ 331 ]
Derek Gerstmann
4%
 4%  [ 133 ]
Iris on Mirror
20%
 20%  [ 638 ]
None of the above -- keep the existing look and feel
3%
 3%  [ 118 ]
Total Votes : 3147

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Q-collective
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fejfbo wrote:
I vote Aaron Shi

Right on time... ;)
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Hackeron
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there an ETA when this design will be used for the site?
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Q-collective
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hackeron wrote:
Is there an ETA when this design will be used for the site?

Hardly
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Hackeron
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starting to feel like this is debian woody, not gentoo :)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q-collective wrote:
Hackeron wrote:
Is there an ETA when this design will be used for the site?

Hardly


:lol:



Actually, I should give a status report or something since so much has changed....but I don't feel like it. Just suffice it to say that the redesign, as it has existed to this point, has been scrapped. More news to follow.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis119 wrote:

Actually, I should give a status report or something since so much has changed....but I don't feel like it. Just suffice it to say that the redesign, as it has existed to this point, has been scrapped. More news to follow.


What happened? Where did the redesign go? Are you planning to start all over? 8O
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis119 wrote:
Actually, I should give a status report or something since so much has changed....but I don't feel like it. Just suffice it to say that the redesign, as it has existed to this point, has been scrapped. More news to follow.
I have full trust that you will get this accomplished properly. Thanks for all your hard work! :D
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

loki99 wrote:
What happened? Where did the redesign go? Are you planning to start all over? 8O
It's a Union job, so nothing ever has to actually be completed.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
It's a Union job, so nothing ever has to actually be completed.


On the contrary! I bet this is a rightwing/conservative conspiracy to keep things from evolving.

:evil:
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, loki99. Unions are a left-wing/liberal problem (and they are a problem nowdays, regardless of what good they've done and were created for).
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unions are a problem for employers who don't treat their employees right and for capitalism as whole. And I am grateful for that! :P
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was their original purpose, yes. In the US, that is no longer their practice.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Updates to www.gentoo.org
Posted on April 30, 2006 by Curtis Napier
gentoo

In preparation for the upcoming redesign the following pages on the website have been updated. Although this update is mostly to the internal format of the pages some of the content has changed. If you encounter any errors please contact us at www@gentoo.org.


is it the final straight line ?
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: New gentoo web page? Reply with quote

What happened to the "new" gentoo web page?

it's still under construction?
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/curtis119/2006/04/10/www_redesign_contest_is_dead_praise_diet

"The redesign as it was known up until this point is no more. There were things the winner of the contest had to do and he failed to do them (after almost 2 years of trying to get him too). I discussed it with klieber a little and after much thought I have decided that the WWW-Redesign Contest is now officially dead and abandoned."
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mikegpitt
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always liked the current design, so I guess that's a good thing.
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omp
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis119 is however recoding the site using XHTML rather than HTML. You can find it with three different stylesheets on http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merged above four posts here.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

omp wrote:
curtis119 is however recoding the site using XHTML rather than HTML. You can find it with three different stylesheets on http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/

Hmm, I like the Style menu. Gives you a nice option what layout you like :)
Now, a little cookie here and it would be complete :D
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank god. All of those pages looked like horrible corporate crap. It doesn't need to have big fat stupid pictures to do it's job. It works now, why change it to something different to offer no new features?
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalPaterson wrote:
Thank god. All of those pages looked like horrible corporate crap. It doesn't need to have big fat stupid pictures to do it's job. It works now, why change it to something different to offer no new features?

Well said, you just summarized my whole problem with this whole project: Why fix something that isn't broken and where the "solutions" look like crap?
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mikegpitt
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q-collective wrote:
Well said, you just summarized my whole problem with this whole project: Why fix something that isn't broken and where the "solutions" look like crap?

Good thing we have Slashdot to look towards: http://slashdot.org/articles/06/05/30/1531251.shtml :lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MmmmJoel wrote:
http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/curtis119/2006/04/10/www_redesign_contest_is_dead_praise_diet

"The redesign as it was known up until this point is no more. There were things the winner of the contest had to do and he failed to do them (after almost 2 years of trying to get him too). I discussed it with klieber a little and after much thought I have decided that the WWW-Redesign Contest is now officially dead and abandoned."


Hi all,

This is Aaron. I think this matter deserves some closure and above posts (including the quoted one) misrepresents my involvement. I just want to set the record straight. Most of the timeline below (for after the mailing list was setup) is gathered from the mailing list emails I received. I'm sure there is an mailing list archive somewhere you can corroborate this to.

Oct 18, 2004 - I was notified as the contest winner.

Nov, 2004 - There was a small discussion about the "infinity logo" vs. old logo, someone from Gentoo was setting me up with bugzilla, keys, mailings lists, etc. However, I sent all requested info and didn't hear back for a while. Later, someone else contacted me and told me the person who was communicating with me before was sick. No problem, so I sent some of the requested info again. I was supposed to get access to a development machine and CVS server, however this never happened, ever. Initial draft with HTML/CSS was complete. Considerations were made to make it look "less corporate" than the contest entry per input from several devs. Someone started working on this (I was told of this in Jan, 2005).

Dec, 2004 - Two HTML/CSS design templates were complete (homepage, generic aka. handbook page which included most of the elements I can find in content pages on the site except forms). One developer started working on turning HTML/CSS templates I provided into Gentoo's templating system, however the person wasn't familiar with Gentoo's existing templating system. The person who started in Nov was still working on the old drafts.

Jan 9, 2005 - I was told that mailing list was setup and I subscribed 9 days later. Discussion about search functionality. All developers were working with the Dec reference pages. I was told that they were only interested in the xsl/xml part, all design was left in my hands. The design templates tested to work in all material aspects (99%+) in Gecko, IE6, Opera, khtml, Safari. These templates were live on my site.

Jan 18, 2005 - Input from devs that changes need to be made to design, so I did. Various small touch ups. Several people were involved at this point, based on the mailing list emails I received, at least 5.

Feb 19, 2005 - I was told that the devs are having issues implementing the search functionality (google and other search products were discussed, the unlikely worst case scenario is an in-house search solution).

Mar 7, 2005 - Someone with access to the CVS told me that what they had in the CVS was different from my design templates. I don't have access so I don't know what's there, but if they are not the Dec design templates they must be the initial drafts. When I checked their demo pages, it looked like a mixture of both and the conclusion was that the HTML/CSS from different versions got mixed up in the CVS. At this date, I was also given a roadmap of all the reference pages needed. There is also a proposal for the structure of the site (which doesn't concern me other than to mock up the main navigation with the correct categories). CSS for printing purposes was complete for the generic/handbook reference page, tested to work in all previously tested browsers except Safari (I no longer have access to a Mac to test Safari).

Mar 8, 2005 - I proposed a multi-tiered CSS cascading structure similar to what mozilla.org had at the time that would allow consistent presentation across all Gentoo sites and the implementation can be done in stages for the other sites.

Mar 25, 2005 - Discussion about accessibility. I implemented CSS/javascript font-size switchers as a demo. There was a "desperate call" from a project leader for devs to implement the reference pages specified in the road map. At this point, I have provided 3 of the reference design templates (homepage, generic/handbook now known as guide page, print CSS for pages other than homepage). A content page, a news article page, and a news headlines archive page was still needed. IMO, the content page is similar to the guide page since the guide page contained just about every visually distinct elements on the site's content pages; the news article page is just a very simple content page; and the news headlines archives page is just the index page headlines listed for a longer time period on a content page template. The HTML/CSS for these pages weren't much different, so I assumed the issue was the XML/XSL part.

Apr 2005 - Minimal activity on the mailing list. By now, several devs have came and gone, but as far as I can tell at least one or two were still onboard with us from the beginning of the year. This is an open source project, what can I expect? People have lives/other jobs and things happen. However, at the half year mark, I thought progress has been very slow with implementation (I don't really know what they do, but the devs' demos were still a far stretch from the reference HTML/CSS design templates I provided. I proceeded to finishing the fourth reference design template (news headline archives page) and left news and content page as they were trivially similar to other templates already completed (the guide page contained everything needed for these pages).

May 3, 2005 - By now, all 6 reference pages required by the roadmap had matching HTML/CSS reference design templates. To ensure everything is on the same page this time, I created a page on my site with demos of all the templates I provided, change dates, change logs, a new tarball for each new update. I don't know what the hold up was about, but maybe there was an element that I didn't see and didn't provide a design for, so I requested a master list of all required visual elements (never received a response).

May, 2005 - Feedback from various people regarding the references pages. Devs report XML Beta 1 complete. XSL draft completed for one of the six reference pages. I made various changes to address feedback received. Devs discuss XSL, etc. The XML/XSL draft were very very beta and I provided feedback to help them look more like the HTML/CSS reference design pages. At this time, other things in my life no longer allowed me to participate very actively in the project. I have provided everything that was requested of me per the roadmap. As far as I was concerned, the only things that remains for me to do is help critique the XML/XSL implementation and help out in the compatibility test at the end. The HTML/CSS design templates I provided were compatible with Firefox and IE (I no longer have linux/mac boxes to test with) and passes W3C validators (except for one CSS rule implemented to work around a browser CSS rendering bug, this rule is browser specific and ignored by other browsers). IMO, this is where my work is substantially complete. The last remaining feedback that I didn't address was how to display extremely long lists of authors. With my work, I usually provide a style usage guideline so whoever works on the site after me can keep the visual presentation consistent. This wasn't a high priority on my list and was put off as I assumed Gentoo devs probably have a good understanding of everything by now (if they didn't, they certainly didn't tell me).

Jun to Jul 2005 - Dead quite on the mailing list. I was expecting some implementation updates so I can provide feedback, pretty disappointed that nobody gave an update on how that was going.

Aug 7, 2005 - I reworked the author list design so that large lists of authors can be displayed. Apparently there's a live server nobody told me about which I discovered by pure luck. I provided a long feedback regarding inconsistencies between the live server demos and the design templates. I was surprised again that design has been modified in various degrees that it looked horrible. Problems can happen during implementation and minor changes have to be made, but I had never encountered a case where such drastic modifications were required. I don't want to speculate what the reasons were; the modifications were certainly not made for the benefit of the viewers of the site. At this point, I seriously wanted to withdrawal my design since it was so wrongly and poorly implemented; then I remembered that by submitting to the contest I waived all rights to the design. Devs responded that code must be clean, W3C, etc. I was confused since every page had a direct link to the W3C validators and they just need to click to ensure that the code passes XHTML Transitional 1.0 (and as previously mentioned, they do). The code uses HTML for structure, CSS for presentation, and where necessary a work around was used for browser-specific quirks (mostlly IE). Work arounds use methods that are generally accepted by the design community. Maybe the devs meant their XML/XSL need to validate? I don't know. Lastly, I was left with comment that changes are inevitable and they will comment at a later time.

Sep - Oct, 2005 - Dead quite on the mailing list.

Nov 20, 2005 - A dev provide an update that the implementation was tested on various platoforms, render well, etc. He also mentioned that feedback received from devs helped shape the current update. I was excited. I took a look and was disappointed. Yes, the site was better than what I saw last time, but it was nothing like the design templates I provided. It became quite clear to me that the update resembled the functionality of the existing site and there are no improvements to usability or any of the other areas (that I can see, or experience for that matter). Rather, this appears to be turning out to be a poorly executed facelift on the existing site. Generally, redesigns are for the better, but in this case, IMO the results were for the worse. Something had gone wrong between converting the HTML/CSS design templates to the XML/XSL system. However, after this update, the mailing list becomes very active and there was a lot of feedback. Things were being tweaked for the better (better as in closer to representing the design templates), but it doesn't seem to quite get there. In fact, after reviewing the lastest update, I quote from a project leader: "I agree with Aaron that the original one looks far better. The colors are much more complementary, the layout is cleaner and the site looks more professional overall."

Dec, 2005 - Much effort was spent by the devs trying to match the implementation to the original design templates. I was told "Don't worry Aaron, all the thought you put into this are not lost, only set aside temporarily."

FYI, you can check my design templates at http://www.aaronshi.com/gentoo/ and the live server with implementation at http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/ . I think the evidence speaks for itself.

Jan, 2006 - There was a request for me to play around with the infinity logo for the site. I was quite busy at this time and considered this low priority since the logo is just one graphic and can be changed anytime. I was still waiting to see the site on track. There was a comment from a dev that the site was being converted to XHTML 1.1.

That was the last I heard. Mailing list has been dead since Jan 8, 2006. I checked the live site often waiting for evidence of the reassurance I received in Nov/Dec 2005. As of today, the live server still look like it did in Dec 2005 (maybe something happened under the hood, but implementation of the visual design is still way off). I am writing-off my entire contribution to this project as a loss.

Anyway, it's a shame this project never materialized. Many people involved put in a tremendous amount of effort and we came close, but at the end we never quite made it. The length of the project certainly took its toll on everyone. Thank you Curtis for staying with it until the end, I think you were probably the only dev left who was working on the implementation. I believe you tried your best to implement the HTML/CSS design I provided with the XML/XSL (and whatever else) system you had to work with. Someday, there will be a redesign. Until then, I hope what you (and everyone else who was involved in this) learned from this experience will help you in reaching that day. When that day comes, please send me a note. Although I'm no longer involved with Gentoo, I wish it well and I would not want to miss the launch of a new website. ;)

Farewell.

-Aaron
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the Gentoo Web team gave up. No soup for us :(

Last edited by calande on Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the typical case in the open-source world: lack of management, loss of manpower and of energy, gap between graphic designers and software developers, differences of interests. In the end, the work is not done, effort is lost and people get frustrated :?

When you read comments like:
Quote:
Well said, you just summarized my whole problem with this whole project: Why fix something that isn't broken and where the "solutions" look like crap?

This really gives no incentive for graphic designers to give software developers a hand :x
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