View previous topic :: View next topic |
Gentoo Foundation Website Redesign Finalists |
Aaron Shi |
|
46% |
[ 1452 ] |
Charles-Andre Landemaine - gencorp |
|
15% |
[ 475 ] |
Charles-Andre Landemaine - gentech |
|
10% |
[ 331 ] |
Derek Gerstmann |
|
4% |
[ 133 ] |
Iris on Mirror |
|
20% |
[ 638 ] |
None of the above -- keep the existing look and feel |
|
3% |
[ 118 ] |
|
Total Votes : 3147 |
|
Author |
Message |
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
kallamej wrote: | Can we drop the silly underlined links? They are only useful, at best, in designs were links have the same colour as normal text. This isn't the case here. |
Please don't do that. Underlined links are:
a) What people expect.
b) An accessibility feature. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 1719 Location: In Hiding
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Turnip wrote: | kallamej wrote: | Can we drop the silly underlined links? They are only useful, at best, in designs were links have the same colour as normal text. This isn't the case here. |
Please don't do that. Underlined links are:
a) What people expect.
b) An accessibility feature. |
Bah. I suppose next you'll be claiming that all door handles should be bright red and triangular so that we know what they are? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Further reading: http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_12_using_color_safely.html.
But maybe Gentoo people don't care about accessibility...
I might be more inclined to agree with your opinion, if only I thought that the underlined links actually look bad. But IMHO it works quite well. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Slyde Guru
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 314
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ciaranm wrote: |
Bah. I suppose next you'll be claiming that all door handles should be bright red and triangular so that we know what they are? |
As long as the links are a different colour, underlining them shouldn't be necessary.
Especially on the tabs on the main page. Underlining makes them look ugly... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, and to go along with the anology: no, you don't need to paint it red because the door handle is made to look like a door handle. But in this case kallamej is suggesting making the links look like normal text (at least to colour blind users). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cokey Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 3355
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i think the underlined links are best staying as with the infinity sign _________________ https://otw20.com/ OTW20 The new place for off the wall chat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Slyde Guru
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 314
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think its an issue of whether "Gentoo cares/ or not". Let's not rush into brash assumptions. Now that you have stated that it is issue visual accessability issues, and not personal preference, it makes much more sense. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Okay, fair point (about brash assumptions). However, I didn't say anything in my inital reply about personal preference. In fact, I quite clearly stated that it's "b) An accessibility feature." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Also, what you said about the navigation menu at the top I agree with. This is only an issue for inline links in body text; it's pretty clear that the nav at the top contains links. There is also quite high contrast. The text is also bold. Now look at the inline links here. They are not bold. There is little contrast. If the underline was removed, you wouldn't need to have particularly bad eyesight to be affected. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 1719 Location: In Hiding
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Turnip wrote: | Okay, fair point (about brash assumptions). However, I didn't say anything in my inital reply about personal preference. In fact, I quite clearly stated that it's "b) An accessibility feature." |
Which is still invalid, because if a user really wants links underlined, then they just set their browser to always underline links. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ciaranm wrote: | Turnip wrote: | Okay, fair point (about brash assumptions). However, I didn't say anything in my inital reply about personal preference. In fact, I quite clearly stated that it's "b) An accessibility feature." |
Which is still invalid, because if a user really wants links underlined, then they just set their browser to always underline links. |
What information do you base this conclusion on? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 1719 Location: In Hiding
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Turnip wrote: | ciaranm wrote: | Turnip wrote: | Okay, fair point (about brash assumptions). However, I didn't say anything in my inital reply about personal preference. In fact, I quite clearly stated that it's "b) An accessibility feature." |
Which is still invalid, because if a user really wants links underlined, then they just set their browser to always underline links. |
What information do you base this conclusion on? |
Several hours of my life wasted in "user interface design" lectures, particularly the parts spent listening to how clever CSS is because it allows the end user to override preferences to fit in with their accessibility-related needs. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ciaranm wrote: | Turnip wrote: | ciaranm wrote: | Turnip wrote: | Okay, fair point (about brash assumptions). However, I didn't say anything in my inital reply about personal preference. In fact, I quite clearly stated that it's "b) An accessibility feature." |
Which is still invalid, because if a user really wants links underlined, then they just set their browser to always underline links. |
What information do you base this conclusion on? |
Several hours of my life wasted in "user interface design" lectures, particularly the parts spent listening to how clever CSS is because it allows the end user to override preferences to fit in with their accessibility-related needs. |
Maybe it's different in this case because Gentoo is a geek product, but GENERALLY I'm not sure how many visually impaired users would have a clue about using CSS to underline links in their browser.
Anyway, we could debate about this all day and get nowhere. I've stated my opinion and you've stated yours -- let's leave it at that. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 1719 Location: In Hiding
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Turnip wrote: | Maybe it's different in this case because Gentoo is a geek product, but GENERALLY I'm not sure how many visually impaired users would have a clue about using CSS to underline links in their browser. |
Heck, they don't even need to touch the CSS themselves. There's a frickin' ticky box in Firefox for it (and I'd imagine that other browsers have one too). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turnip n00b
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 60 Location: Reading, UK
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ciaranm wrote: | Turnip wrote: | Maybe it's different in this case because Gentoo is a geek product, but GENERALLY I'm not sure how many visually impaired users would have a clue about using CSS to underline links in their browser. |
Heck, they don't even need to touch the CSS themselves. There's a frickin' ticky box in Firefox for it (and I'd imagine that other browsers have one too). |
Are you talking about "Fonts & Colours" in the Preferences dialog? I have the underline links box checked (it was already checked), and it makes absolutely no difference. I assume that it's a default setting (especially as it says "Set default fonts and colours for websites").
Sure, it might be possible to do with an extension and sure, Opera has better support for user style sheets, but let's not forget that 90% of the web is still using IE.
(And I'll re-iterate that this is a general conclusion -- I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Gentoo gets hits mainly from Firefox.) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tazmanian Apprentice
Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Posts: 222
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Slyde wrote: | As long as the links are a different colour, underlining them shouldn't be necessary. |
This is not true. There ought to be a colour contrast between the links and ordinary text. As Turnip points out, if you remove the underlining here, there would only be a very subtle difference between the ordinary text and the link text (because their colours have similar intensities), making links difficult to recognise. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tazmanian Apprentice
Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Posts: 222
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
curtis119 wrote: | The redesign is progressing nicely. I have some preliminary layouts if anyone is interested in seeing them. The keyword here is preliminary. This was a quick hack I did with the xsl backend and generated on my local computer. The final layout is subject to review by swift et al.
Main Page |
On that main page: "Portage: an easy to use world-class package management solution." Does that text need to stay as is, or can it change? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like a case of excessive marketing-speak. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mallchin l33t
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 655 Location: United Kingdom
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ciaranm wrote: |
Bah. I suppose next you'll be claiming that all door handles should be bright red and triangular so that we know what they are? |
I've always preferred hexagons. _________________ 6700 @ 2.66GHz, 4Gb RAM, 2 x 500Gb, 8800 GTX, PhysX, X-Fi, 24" Widescreen, Tux mascot |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kallamej Administrator
Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 4975 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Turnip wrote: | Accessibility concerns... |
I guess what I'm after is that the stylesheet should neither enforce nor prevent underlined links. It should be a browser setting, IMHO. Apparently, the current f.g.o stylesheet is not good in this regard as it seems to prevent some underlining for those who want it. Conversely, I don't want underlining shoved down my throat. _________________ Please read our FAQ Forum, it answers many of your questions.
irc: #gentoo-forums on irc.libera.chat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
garfield n00b
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 14 Location: Aalborg, Denmark
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Any plans on where to find mirrors, irc channels and various of other stuff that is included in the menu to the left in the current design? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
loki99 Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 2056 Location: Vienna, €urope
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kallamej wrote: | Conversely, I don't want underlining shoved down my throat. |
second that!
Tazmanian wrote: | On that main page: "Portage: an easy to use world-class package management solution." Does that text need to stay as is, or can it change? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like a case of excessive marketing-speak. |
and second that one, too! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ian! Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 3829 Location: Essen, Germany
|
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
kallamej wrote: | Conversely, I don't want underlining shoved down my throat. |
Same here. - It should be an option instead of a rule.
Tazmanian wrote: | On that main page: "Portage: an easy to use world-class package management solution." Does that text need to stay as is, or can it change? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like a case of excessive marketing-speak. |
I think that's something for the www-redesign mailinglist. Please send suggestions there. _________________ "To have a successful open source project, you need to be at least somewhat successful at getting along with people." -- Daniel Robbins |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sven Vermeulen Retired Dev
Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Posts: 1345 Location: Mechelen, Belgium
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Curtis is doing some major development on the site. Okay, there are still pro/con discussions on small stuff but I'm glad to see things are progressing nicely. For almost all reference pages he has now shown examples (but they're still just that - preliminary examples).
I assume that, once Curtis and Aaron get along about the layout, we're all set |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Q-collective Advocate
Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 2071
|
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sven Vermeulen wrote: | Curtis is doing some major development on the site. Okay, there are still pro/con discussions on small stuff but I'm glad to see things are progressing nicely. For almost all reference pages he has now shown examples (but they're still just that - preliminary examples).
I assume that, once Curtis and Aaron get along about the layout, we're all set |
So, this is a Five-Year-Plan, soviet style?
Nice to know we have a new site in 2010.
Seriously, this is running for nine months now, when are we going to actually *see* some progress? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
curtis119 Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 2160 Location: Toledo, Ohio,USA, North America, Earth, SOL System, Milky Way, The Universe, The Cosmos, and Beyond.
|
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Q-collective wrote: |
So, this is a Five-Year-Plan, soviet style?
Nice to know we have a new site in 2010.
Seriously, this is running for nine months now, when are we going to actually *see* some progress? |
I posted screenshots of a working site that is implemented with the same backend (XSL/XML) that the normal gentoo site runs on. So you already can *see* some progress.
On another note. I was just recently made a gentoo developer (it becomes *Official* on July 15th). Ramareth is in the process of setting up a gentoo hosted test machine for me to work on instead of using my own server here in my house. These two things will help me with this process. I still can't give you an exact time when it will go live on www.gentoo.org though. As with all things FOSS, it will be done when I finish it.
Main Page
Planet Gentoo
Handbook Intro
Handbook Index
Newsletter
Handbook Intro - text browser
Forum - Main Index
The server those are hosted on has DNS issues. If you get a "cannot be found" error just click it again a few times and it will work. This will be fixed as soon as possible _________________ Gentoo: it's like wiping your ass with silk.
Last edited by curtis119 on Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|