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GNU/Linux or Linux alone?
GNU/Linux
42%
 42%  [ 191 ]
Linux
35%
 35%  [ 158 ]
Don't Care
22%
 22%  [ 101 ]
Total Votes : 450

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SilentGreg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux. Takes too long to say, type or write GNU/Linux. :P
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akela
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously now, should I call my window manager XFree/KDE? Isn't that exactly the same as calling Linux GNU/Linux? BASH won't run without a UNIX kernel, so should we call it UNIX/BASH??
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codergeek42
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

akela wrote:
BASH won't run without a UNIX kernel, so should we call it UNIX/BASH??
Technically speaking, Bash will run on a Win32 9x/NT kernel (with a compatiblilty layer though)...
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fender1212
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carbon wrote:
AFAIK, Linux is the name of the kernel that Linus Torvalds wrote in 1991.

GNU is an organization that develop open source software. Since distributions started to use GNU's softwre to go with the Kernel called Linux, so I guess they should be called GNU/Linux system.

However, people tend to like shorter simpler name, so somehow people started to call their systems a Linux system since the Kernel (seems like the most important part of a system) is called Linux.

That's my understanding and please correct me if I am wrong.


correction GNU is the organization that developed the "Free Software Movement".

the "Open Source Movement" was not created by the GNU orginization.

funny thing. linus didn't want to call his OS linux. he wanted to call it Freax, but Ari Lemke didn't like the name Freax. how do i think it would be calling it GNU/Freax?
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fernandotcl
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, technically, you could use other tools than GNU's to build a kernel and run a complete system. However, GNU had and has a lot of influence and importance around the community that uses the Linux kernel, so it's acceptable that the guys at FSF like to call it GNU/Linux.

The system isn't only a kernel. But there are more tools that make the core system besides the GNU ones. What's the only thing that all the packages in a system have in common? The distro. You may call the core GNU/Linux, however, or Linux for short, but the real name of the OS isn't the name of parts of it, but the name of the releaser. In our case, who releases the OS is the distro, so we got our name.

That's why I didn't vote for either. Both are wrong and right at the same time. But calling the OS the distro name is "more right", so I'd vote for that if there were such an option.


EDIT: Just found the third option, so I vote for it. :)
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Liquid
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a lot of
Quote:
I don't care
I can't be bodered...
etc....

I think is really unpolite to all the people that brought this system to you.
All of you guys should use only the kernel than.
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truekaiser
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if your going to add gnu to the front of linux you might as well add the following cause they will all start to demand the same treatment.
mozilla
bsd
apache
kde
gnome
Xfree
x.org
*insert licence name or major software package*
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Duck-Billed Platypus
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truekaiser wrote:
if your going to add gnu to the front of linux you might as well add the following cause they will all start to demand the same treatment.
mozilla
bsd
apache
kde
gnome
Xfree
x.org
*insert licence name or major software package*

Umm no I think.. cause the GNU tools provide the base system utilities. All those you listed are just big packages that are pretty much associated with linux and *nix in general. The GNU tools are pretty much as basic as you can get, except for shell and kernel..
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codergeek42
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, most of the time the Bash shell that GNU/Linux use is the GNU's implementation of it.
Code:
$ bash --version
GNU bash, version 3.00.13(1)-release (i686-pc-linux-gnu)
Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

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truekaiser
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duck-Billed Platypus wrote:
truekaiser wrote:
if your going to add gnu to the front of linux you might as well add the following cause they will all start to demand the same treatment.
mozilla
bsd
apache
kde
gnome
Xfree
x.org
*insert licence name or major software package*

Umm no I think.. cause the GNU tools provide the base system utilities. All those you listed are just big packages that are pretty much associated with linux and *nix in general. The GNU tools are pretty much as basic as you can get, except for shell and kernel..


yet the others provide just as much. why should they be left out as well? without xfree or x.org there is no gui. and sence kde and gnome are distributed with just about every distrobution then why not put them in the name as well?
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codergeek42
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truekaiser wrote:
yet the others provide just as much.
No they don't. Without a kernel, you don't have an OS, and wihtout the GNU userland tools, you have to use another set of tools.
Quote:
why should they be left out as well? without xfree or x.org there is no gui.
And? GNU/Linux (and *nix in general) does not need X11 to run. You can pretty much do almost anything command-line & framebuffer.
Quote:
and sence kde and gnome are distributed with just about every distrobution then why not put them in the name as well?
Again, a GUI (X11 in most cases) is optional. the kernel or (for the most part) the userland tools, are not.
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Last edited by codergeek42 on Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Duck-Billed Platypus
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truekaiser wrote:
Duck-Billed Platypus wrote:
truekaiser wrote:
if your going to add gnu to the front of linux you might as well add the following cause they will all start to demand the same treatment.
mozilla
bsd
apache
kde
gnome
Xfree
x.org
*insert licence name or major software package*

Umm no I think.. cause the GNU tools provide the base system utilities. All those you listed are just big packages that are pretty much associated with linux and *nix in general. The GNU tools are pretty much as basic as you can get, except for shell and kernel..


yet the others provide just as much. why should they be left out as well? without xfree or x.org there is no gui. and sence kde and gnome are distributed with just about every distrobution then why not put them in the name as well?

Because can you have an operating system without a shell and basic utilities? I suppose theoretically you could, but it wouldn't do much. The GNU tools allow linux to be actually usable, whereas x.org/xfree/etc are only needed if you want those capabilities..

codergeek42 wrote:
Actually, most of the time the Bash shell that GNU/Linux use is the GNU's implementation of it.
Code:

$ bash --version
GNU bash, version 3.00.13(1)-release (i686-pc-linux-gnu)
Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

Never knew that..
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As have been stated before, the most correct term would be to use the name of the distribution (ie. "I run Gentoo"), but you could also be a bit more verbose ("I run Gentoo, a variant of the GNU/Linux operating system").

A lot of people are commenting that if we need to credit the FSF, we need to credit other major projects as well (Apache, Xorg, KDE, etc.). These people miss the fact that the GNU tools have no ready replacement for a modern GNU/Linux system - in fact, you'd have a hard time getting the kernel to build and boot in the first place (yes, you can use ICC, but there's still other issues). Furthermore, the goals of the Apache, Xorg and KDE projects don't differ greatly from those of the Linux kernel ("technical excellence"), but the Free Software Foundations does - for them (and me), it is mostly a philosophical ethical question of software freedom (the fact that an open sourcecode often results in better software is a side-effect), and I believe that it should be made clear that the FSF doesn't endorse the beliefs of the Linux-developers.

The software is free, but consider your acknowledgement of the efforts of the GNU developers payment.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pratttech wrote:

Why does this film make you think only some people should know the truth?
Ruzbeh wrote:

It should be just Linux, only the important people need to realise that GNU, the FSF and Richard Stallman played a big role in Linux.


[/quote]

What I meant was, it's not really a big deal for people not to realise who really 'made' Linux. If you wanna know who made Linux, the OpenSource community did or the Online community, hackers and developers from all over the world. Something like that. :?

pratttech wrote:

Ruzbeh wrote:

And on top of that, GNU/Linux is a mouthful and sounds kinda weird. :lol:

Does New York sound wierd to you? How about York?


:idea: I just love the irony that New linux really is old GNU and that Linux only ever exists but in the heart of our OS (and this debate it seems).


It's not pronounced as New Linux it's pronounced as Gah-New Linux. :roll:

And yes it sounds weird.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: GNU/Linux or Linux alone? Reply with quote

Call it:

Gentoo Linux,
SUSE Linux,
Redhat Linux,
Mandrake Linux,

etc.. so people will understand! ..and as bonus, you can compare it with:

Microsoft Windows.

Suddently the name and all the distro choices make sense.
I only use GNU/Linux is it looks better in some reports.

amiatrome wrote:
Here's why it may matter.
Quote:
Stallman was first (1984) [...] Stallman started it. And others took his work.


I think we need to redefine the words "freedom".

I agree RMS did a great deal for all of us, but demanding credit is beyond my ethics. I also don't understand why he is so obsessed with talking, I've read many of his articles, but I keep having the feeling he wants to push everyone into one direction, and correct everyone having a different view of things. Dictating how people should interpret freedom isn't really freedom. (e.g. "you're free to do things my way")

Also, the FSF develops in a rather closed manner if they can! :? I much rather prefer the KDE or Linux development model.
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virtual
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:D Hi,

I belive it should be called "Gentoo GNU/Linux" because as far as I know the OS is Linux the tools are GNU, credit should be given when credit is deserved and the GNU project should get the attention they deserve.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

virtual wrote:
:D Hi,

I belive it should be called "Gentoo GNU/Linux" because as far as I know the OS is Linux the tools are GNU, credit should be given when credit is deserved and the GNU project should get the attention they deserve.

Gentoo Linux is a GNU/Linux system.

That wasn't so hard now, was it? ;) Gentoo should NOT be called Gentoo GNU/Linux. Why? The devs already chose "Gentoo Linux". Why change the name?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Levi* wrote:

Gentoo Linux is a GNU/Linux system.

That wasn't so hard now, was it? ;) Gentoo should NOT be called Gentoo GNU/Linux. Why? The devs already chose "Gentoo Linux". Why change the name?


Maybe for "respect" to GNU developers?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not just call it G-Linux then no-one would know if it was Gnu or Gentoo :D
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just say "Linux" and if anyone asks claim it has a silent 'G'.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chunderbunny wrote:
Just say "Linux" and if anyone asks claim it has a silent 'G'.


That's awesome. :lol: 8)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone interested in this thread might be interested in the Unix-history-chapter of Eric S. Raymond's book "The Art of Unix Programming" (PDF). Great read, very facsinating.
And neutral about the topic of this thread.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GNU/Linux, definitely.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GNU/Linux, more than definitely.

Whats GNU without Linux? An OS without a kernel.
Whats Linux without GNU? A kernel without an OS.

They are just like Ernie and Bert, NOTHING without the other. ;)

Richard Stallman deserves the same respect as Linus Torvalds.


Last edited by c0balt on Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GRUB/GNU/Linux, as bootstrapping is an important aspect of a system.

No really. GNU/Linux or Linux, I don't care. I use the linux kernel with GNU utilities. But I also use KDE and grub. Does that mean my system is GRUB/GNU/Linux/KDE?

But I'm fine either way. I understand why RMS feels that it should be GNU/Linux. He's right. But it's such a hassle to say that.
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