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GNU/Linux or Linux alone?
GNU/Linux
42%
 42%  [ 191 ]
Linux
35%
 35%  [ 158 ]
Don't Care
22%
 22%  [ 101 ]
Total Votes : 450

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Valhlalla
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't GNU just implied? You don't go around saying I got a brand new Holden Monaro/Pontiac GTO, Even though it is just a modified Monaro, you would just say I have a GTO. If you know enough about those cars you will know this already, if you don't you probably won't care anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. I say Linux because I can't be bothered saying GNU/Linux - especially because of all the blank looks and comments like "What have wildebeests got to do with it?"
"No, it's GNU.... it's not Unix.... oh never mind"
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i really couldn't care less really, its like whos got the greener apple...........
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valhlalla wrote:
Isn't GNU just implied? You don't go around saying I got a brand new Holden Monaro/Pontiac GTO, Even though it is just a modified Monaro, you would just say I have a GTO. If you know enough about those cars you will know this already, if you don't you probably won't care anyway.


hehe thats a good example!
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Valhlalla
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASIO_BOB wrote:
Valhlalla wrote:
Isn't GNU just implied? You don't go around saying I got a brand new Holden Monaro/Pontiac GTO, Even though it is just a modified Monaro, you would just say I have a GTO. If you know enough about those cars you will know this already, if you don't you probably won't care anyway.


hehe thats a good example!


:)
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Athas
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roguelazer wrote:
Linux. I mean, if we're going to throw in GNU, we might as well throw in every other group that's contributed something.


The difference is that GNU is damn essential - the kernel can't even build without it (okay, you could use icc, but that's a hack). It is possible to have a useful system running nothing but GNU and the Linux kernel, but it is impossible to run a Linux-based system without GNU (as far as I know, the BSD tools haven't been ported).
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GNU/BSD/X11/GNOME/XFCE/Mozilla/OpenOffice/Linux

Um, I hope I haven't forgot anyone.

Seriously though, just Linux. Just because GNU/Linux is as absurd as that first line of my post.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gnilux.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valhlalla wrote:
Isn't GNU just implied?


It would be, if the GNU-contributions were merely technical, but GNU is as much a social movement as a technical one, one that is opposed to the Linux philosophy of nothing but technical excellence. Naturally, the FSF wants to underline this philosophical difference.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch Revolution OS. :)

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2419320?htv=12
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thalion wrote:
GNU/BSD/X11/GNOME/XFCE/Mozilla/OpenOffice/Linux

Um, I hope I haven't forgot anyone.

Seriously though, just Linux. Just because GNU/Linux is as absurd as that first line of my post.

My thought about this more or less. I crossed my mind yesterday, that if you should mention GNU, shouldn't you include every other foundation and product name that goes with the kernel?

Granted, the GNU-system is the most vital part of the base installation, but as Linus himself said: of course the GNU-system is a vital part of the whole operating system, but forcing people to include GNU in their distribution's name is just ridiculous. (not quoting, mind you)

That said, I just say Linux most of the times... ;)
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Athas
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Levi* wrote:
Granted, the GNU-system is the most vital part of the base installation, but as Linus himself said: of course the GNU-system is a vital part of the whole operating system, but forcing people to include GNU in their distribution's name is just ridiculous.


The FSF isn't trying to force anyone into doing anything: Gentoo is Gentoo and Mandrake is Mandrake, it's the concept of the combination of the Linux kernel and GNU tools that should be called GNU/Linux.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athas wrote:
*Levi* wrote:
Granted, the GNU-system is the most vital part of the base installation, but as Linus himself said: of course the GNU-system is a vital part of the whole operating system, but forcing people to include GNU in their distribution's name is just ridiculous.


The FSF isn't trying to force anyone into doing anything: Gentoo is Gentoo and Mandrake is Mandrake, it's the concept of the combination of the Linux kernel and GNU tools that should be called GNU/Linux.


AFAIK, the entire linux community (at least the non-ignorant people) acknowledges the fact that GNU did a lot of work, even though the Linux kernel is the most important thing. Officially it's GNU/Linux, sure, but I prefer to say Linux.

Maybe something really cool should be made up to define the GNU, Linux combination, cause GNU/Linux is REALLY totally not going to cut it. (I love the name "Linux" however.)
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Athas
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruzbeh wrote:
AFAIK, the entire linux community (at least the non-ignorant people) acknowledges the fact that GNU did a lot of work, even though the Linux kernel is the most important thing.


Well, the ignorant people is whom the FSF is targeting - there's more at stake than mere techinical prestige, the FSF has to protect its philosophy. ;)

Personally, I don't find GNU/Linux that bad, it was worse back when they were trying to make everyone call it LiGNUx. :P
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carbon wrote:
GNU is an organization that develop open source software.


Dude, you are really trying to raise the ire of RMS, eh. ;-)

GNU and the FSF created "Free Software". Open Source software was a term created that incorporates potentially non-free terms and ideals.

GNU/Linux would be the correct term, but it is difficult to say, and when you do say it, it sounds like you are saying New Linux. Then people what the new version is. ;-)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athas wrote:
Well, the ignorant people is whom the FSF is targeting - there's more at stake than mere techinical prestige, the FSF has to protect its philosophy. ;)


The whole GNU/Linux thing is small fry compared to what they've done more recently. Okay, the FSF are quite militant on the subject, but when all's said and done everyone can choose to disagree if they're still not convinced.

The Invariant Sections in the GNU Free Documentation License were dreamed up for the express purpose of shoving GNU propaganda down everyone's throat. (See RMS's post to the debian-legal mailing list.)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it matters. Mad props to the GNU people for GNOME, GLIBC and GCC and all the other fun stuff, but it IS open source. Deal with it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athas wrote:
I always use GNU/Linux when writing, even to the point of calling Gentoo, Gentoo GNU/Linux, even though it's not the correct name. I believe the FSF requires acknowledgement for their technical as well as philosophical contributions. Basically, what we run is really nothing but GNU with a Linux kernel and a swanky package manager. ;)

In speech, though, I merely use "Linux" since saying "GNU/Linux" might instead come off as "GNU Linux," and I believe we can all agree that Linux is not a part of GNU. ;)


I agree 100%. I voted for GNU/Linux.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't care less. What's in a name?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frameRATE wrote:
Mad props to the GNU people for GNOME, GLIBC and GCC and all the other fun stuff, but it IS open source.


No, it's free software - there's a world of difference, and it's that difference the FSF is trying to expound on with the GNU/Linux naming recommendation.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely GNU/Linux.

Stallman's goal was to write a complete OS. People took all his work + Linux (the kernel) and called it "Linux".

1. It's not fair. Without the GNU OS, you couldn't even use Linux (the kernel).

Many people think Linus Torvalds wrote the complete OS by itself. In this (german) article from a big magazine is written that "Linus not only invented Linux, but gave it to the world as a present". No mention of GNU at all. This one is even worse! (german again).

2. because GNU normally does not get mentioned the philosophy behind GNU gets no attention.
Everbody thinks "free" means you don't have to pay and nobody learns about the goals of the GNU project and the advantages you get with free software (as opposed to "open source", for example).

Also, it makes Stallman look like an idiot/zealot when he asks people to say GNU/Linux just because of "a few tools in the Linux OS".

See my sig for the video that brainwashed me ;)

Thalion wrote:
GNU/BSD/X11/GNOME/XFCE/Mozilla/OpenOffice/Linux

http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athas wrote:
frameRATE wrote:
Mad props to the GNU people for GNOME, GLIBC and GCC and all the other fun stuff, but it IS open source.


No, it's free software - there's a world of difference, and it's that difference the FSF is trying to expound on with the GNU/Linux naming recommendation.


point taken, but still...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like it's time for a GoogleFight

Quote:
Number of results on Google for the keywords linux and GNU:

linux
(101 000 000 results)

versus

GNU
(17 400 000 results)


Even if it is SUPPOSED to be called GNU/Linux it is apparent that it isn't
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skraut wrote:
sounds like it's time for a GoogleFight

Quote:
Number of results on Google for the keywords linux and GNU:

linux
(101 000 000 results)

versus

GNU
(17 400 000 results)


Even if it is SUPPOSED to be called GNU/Linux it is apparent that it isn't

It's even more uneven with the appropriate keywords:
GoogleFight2
:wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruzbeh wrote:
Officially it's GNU/Linux, sure, but I prefer to say Linux.


There is no such thing as an "official" name for Linux. It's just a matter of personal preference and/or political views.

IMO, the best approach is to call a distro the way distromaker call it. So it'd be Gentoo Linux, RedHat Linux, Mandrake Linux, but Debian GNU/Linux. When you've got a strictly base system with GNU tools (by the way, there are alternatives!), I would say it's okay to call it GNU/Linux, although I'd still just call it Linux for the sake of simplicity.
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