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GNU/Linux or Linux alone?
GNU/Linux
42%
 42%  [ 191 ]
Linux
35%
 35%  [ 158 ]
Don't Care
22%
 22%  [ 101 ]
Total Votes : 450

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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Do you say "disc brakes" or just "brakes"? It depends on whether the distinction is essential to what you are communicating.
While I agree with you wholeheartedly, what other form of linux is there that we'd need to distinguish GNU/Linux from? You can use uclibc and tinycc with the linux kernel but there is no name for it

Android, Tizen, OpenMoko, MeeGo, OpenWRT, OpenEmbedded, etc., etc., etc.
Good point. Although, while I can't speak for the others, the media seems to call Android is "a modified form of linux"
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
ComputerNerd wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

On one hand you demand that everybody acknowledges the 'work' of the 'gnu project' - the people behind it got ripped off by the FSF already, so you actually demand to acknowledge the great doing of the FSF.
What do you mean how did they get ripped off?


Please don't ignore the rest. Just to argue this minor point. Thanks a lot.

And it is obvious how they got ripped off.

The GNU project gives credit to contributes I still don't understand how they got people ripped off. http://www.gnu.org/people/people.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people to prevail, perverted even the meaning of words!
-Thucydides
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
Some people to prevail, perverted even the meaning of words!
-Thucydides
it's a fairly common tactic in rhetorics. if your position is dominant, or close enough, you might even manage to make the guys using it correctly look bad for doing so. kind of reminds ya of hacker vs cracker.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the point in having a website in one's signature that is barely started? Sort of pole axes one's credibility I would suggest.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
What's the point in having a website in one's signature that is barely started? Sort of pole axes one's credibility I would suggest.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
What's the point in having a website in one's signature that is barely started? Sort of pole axes one's credibility I would suggest.
huh?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is LLVM/Clang going on?
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408963
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
What's the point in having a website in one's signature that is barely started? Sort of pole axes one's credibility I would suggest.
huh?
It was a comment regarding links in signatures that point to "under construction" websites. This makes any point the person is trying to make lack credibility. Is that clearer, because I don't speak German.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
What's the point in having a website in one's signature that is barely started? Sort of pole axes one's credibility I would suggest.
huh?
It was a comment regarding links in signatures that point to "under construction" websites. This makes any point the person is trying to make lack credibility. Is that clearer, because I don't speak German.
yeah it just wasn't obvious who you were dissin - not sure why you'd want to spell it out in Kraut tho, i can hardly get by in that language.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disi wrote:
How is LLVM/Clang going on?
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408963
Soon there will be arguments wondering why we just call it Clang
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
disi wrote:
How is LLVM/Clang going on?
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408963
Soon there will be arguments wondering why we just call it Clang
I think that name is not silly enough. Here's The Clangers
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
ComputerNerd wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

On one hand you demand that everybody acknowledges the 'work' of the 'gnu project' - the people behind it got ripped off by the FSF already, so you actually demand to acknowledge the great doing of the FSF.
What do you mean how did they get ripped off?


Please don't ignore the rest. Just to argue this minor point. Thanks a lot.

And it is obvious how they got ripped off.

The GNU project gives credit to contributes I still don't understand how they got people ripped off. http://www.gnu.org/people/people.html


still ignoring the important rest that I wrote, hm?

But ok, I will tell you:

first they force you to give them the copyright (something that just shows how US-centric those dickheads really are. You can not give away your copyright in countries like Germany) and then they decide the licence for the newly acquired software (code... etc pp).

They talk about 'freedom to use'. But take away freedoms if they don't like it - and are not ashamed to create monsters like the GPLv3. Thanks a lot.

Now, can we please go back to major point of my posting?

Just for you, so you can't ignore it:

then why you act like it is religion?

And why are you ignoring the fact that gnu/linux is even MORE WRONG then just linux? No, that isn't it.

Demanding to call it GNU/Linux is MORE WRONG then just calling it linux.

It isn't just wrong, it is morally abhorrent. It is amoral. Disgusting for every just person.

On one hand you demand that everybody acknowledges the 'work' of the 'gnu project' [...]

But at the same time you ignore the hard work of everybody else.

Last time I checked KDE was owned and done by KDE eV. Xorg X11 is NOT gnu. Neither is Qt. Or ALSA. Or vlc/ffmpeg. Firefox is not gnu. sendmail, postfix, apache, php, perl, python, mysql, postgresql, db, ssh are not gnu.

A system with just linux kernel + gnu isn't usable in any way. It isn't even an OS - because without perl you can't really build the kernel.

But GNU-Taliban like you just ignore that fact and annoy everybody around them. People like you actually hurt Free/open software. thanks a lot for your assholish way.

Now just go back and sniff RMS farts. You seem to like that a lot.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

still ignoring the important rest that I wrote, hm?

I was going to answer them eventully but I want to clear up why you think the FSF rips people off first.
Quote:

But ok, I will tell you:

first they force you to give them the copyright (something that just shows how US-centric those dickheads really are. You can not give away your copyright in countries like Germany) and then they decide the licence for the newly acquired software (code... etc pp).

Did you even read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.html it offers a good explanation as to why they do that. They do it so that if someone violates the license it is easier to resolve the issue.
Quote:

They talk about 'freedom to use'. But take away freedoms if they don't like it - and are not ashamed to create monsters like the GPLv3. Thanks a lot.

Why do you think the GPLv3 is bad? Insulting something without reason is illogical.
Quote:

Now, can we please go back to major point of my posting?

Sure
Quote:

Just for you, so you can't ignore it:

then why you act like it is religion?

I don't this is software.
Quote:

And why are you ignoring the fact that gnu/linux is even MORE WRONG then just linux? No, that isn't it.

Demanding to call it GNU/Linux is MORE WRONG then just calling it linux.

It isn't just wrong, it is morally abhorrent. It is amoral. Disgusting for every just person.

On one hand you demand that everybody acknowledges the 'work' of the 'gnu project' [...]

But at the same time you ignore the hard work of everybody else.

Last time I checked KDE was owned and done by KDE eV. Xorg X11 is NOT gnu. Neither is Qt. Or ALSA. Or vlc/ffmpeg. Firefox is not gnu. sendmail, postfix, apache, php, perl, python, mysql, postgresql, db, ssh are not gnu.

A system with just linux kernel + gnu isn't usable in any way. It isn't even an OS - because without perl you can't really build the kernel.

But GNU-Taliban like you just ignore that fact and annoy everybody around them. People like you actually hurt Free/open software. thanks a lot for your assholish way.

Now just go back and sniff RMS farts. You seem to like that a lot.

So by your logical we would have to call it GNU/Linux/KDE/Xorg/Qt/ALSA/vlc/ffmpeg/Firefox/sendmail/postfix/perl there is a certain point where you need to draw the line the reason for adding the GNU part is to represent freedom. How do I hurt free software people need to know about there freedoms.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, I read that FSF propaganda piece.

For some reason, linux can do it without assigning copyright. But nonetheless where is the difference between:
give us all your rights, so we can protect your freedom
and
give us all your money, so your shop does not burn down?

But lets go on:
Yes, I think the GPLv3 is bad. It is convolutet, byzantine and unjust. A real mess. Just because RMS shat himself about Tivo.

Next stop:
Quote:

So by your logical we would have to call it GNU/Linux/KDE/Xorg/Qt/ALSA/vlc/ffmpeg/Firefox/sendmail/postfix/perl there is a certain point where you need to draw the line the reason for adding the GNU part is to represent freedom. How do I hurt free software people need to know about there freedoms.


no, it is YOUR logic.

My logic is: you can't enumerate them all, so be just, name nobody. Everybody knows what is going on.
Your logic is: BUT IT IS GNU! YOU MUST MENTION GNU! The fucking rest does not matter. Just ignore them. They are not important! GNU GNU GNU GNU!
And that is why I think (just my opinion) that people like you are amorale asstards.

How does it hurt?

Well, first off all mentioning GNU everywhere does not make people magically know about 'there freedoms'. But going all retard about this, does turn people away. Your postings so far don't make people interessted in the GNU way and the FSF. It makes people looking for their windows install cds - or some *bsd downloads.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:

So by your logical we would have to call it GNU/Linux/KDE/Xorg/Qt/ALSA/vlc/ffmpeg/Firefox/sendmail/postfix/perl there is a certain point where you need to draw the line the reason for adding the GNU part is to represent freedom. How do I hurt free software people need to know about there freedoms.

But that isn't all contributing factors. Its all or nothing, not cherrypicking based upon conformational bias. So its either Linux or Xorg/Linux
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

But lets go on:
Yes, I think the GPLv3 is bad. It is convolutet, byzantine and unjust. A real mess. Just because RMS shat himself about Tivo.

Ok you think it is bad but insulting does not help explain why you think it is bad. Also I like the idea of being able to modify the firmware of some of the devices that I own for example I have a camera with an annoying white balance bug (and there is no manual override) and I would like to fix it myself but because it I do not have the source code I am unable to fix the bug. If I owned a Tivo I would enjoy the ability to hack it and re-purpose it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after having read the GNU page i have voted for GNU/LINUX in dual mode with windows 7 and 8
for some applications windows platform i feel is better and easy to use
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I can't believe I'm writing this, but I'm totally behind Energyladdy on this one.

ComputerNerd: yer not really helping the cause. Besides, it's perfectly feasible to build a Linux system WITHOUT any GNU code whatsoever (even Linux itself only uses a modified version of the GPL - fortunately, lest we'd have GPLv3 shoved down our throats left, right and centre).
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

But lets go on:
Yes, I think the GPLv3 is bad. It is convolutet, byzantine and unjust. A real mess. Just because RMS shat himself about Tivo.

Ok you think it is bad but insulting does not help explain why you think it is bad. Also I like the idea of being able to modify the firmware of all devices that I own that are capable of it. I have a camera with an annoying white balance bug (and there is no manual override) and I would like to fix it myself but because it I do not have the source code I am unable to fix the bug. If I owned a Tivo I would enjoy the ability to hack it and re-purpose it.


'that are capable of it' is a nice way to weasel out. Isn't it?

I also like to modify firmwares - but honestly, the firmware of my router does everything it needs to be doing. So why touching it? I could, others do. Fine. Without the need of GPLv3 btw. My phone just works, why touching it? My camera? Well, thanks to GPLv3 nobody can change the firmware... so how can one touch it?

That 'that are capable of' clause is really idiotic. instead of promoting ways to play around with the source code, it encourages manufacturers to close down the device completely. Great for security matters.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

'that are capable of it' is a nice way to weasel out. Isn't it?

I meant anything that is reprogrammable. My toaster does not run software.
Quote:

I also like to modify firmwares - but honestly, the firmware of my router does everything it needs to be doing. So why touching it? I could, others do. Fine. Without the need of GPLv3 btw. My phone just works, why touching it? My camera? Well, thanks to GPLv3 nobody can change the firmware... so how can one touch it?

That 'that are capable of' clause is really idiotic. instead of promoting ways to play around with the source code, it encourages manufacturers to close down the device completely. Great for security matters.
How does the GPLv3 make it so that nobody can change the firmware you got it backwards with the gplv3 it gives everyone the freedom to modify the firmware. I guess the that is capable of could cause some confusion I removed it from my original post. Also if your device works to your needs without modification that is great but the reason I want to modify the firmware on some devices that I own is because I would like to fix bugs or improve functionality.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

'that are capable of it' is a nice way to weasel out. Isn't it?

I meant anything that is reprogrammable. My toaster does not run software.
Quote:

I also like to modify firmwares - but honestly, the firmware of my router does everything it needs to be doing. So why touching it? I could, others do. Fine. Without the need of GPLv3 btw. My phone just works, why touching it? My camera? Well, thanks to GPLv3 nobody can change the firmware... so how can one touch it?

That 'that are capable of' clause is really idiotic. instead of promoting ways to play around with the source code, it encourages manufacturers to close down the device completely. Great for security matters.
How does the GPLv3 make it so that nobody can change the firmware you got it backwards with the gplv3 it gives everyone the freedom to modify the firmware. I guess the that is capable of could cause some confusion I removed it from my original post. Also if your device works to your needs without modification that is great but the reason I want to modify the firmware on some devices that I own is because I would like to fix bugs or improve functionality.


wrong. the gplv3 takes it away.

With GPLv2: here is the source code. You can't change to firmware because of the bootloader. But we can upload security updates.
With GPLv3: here is the source code. Nobody can change the firmware. We would have to open it up completely. We don't like to be sued by Hollywood. So we closed it down. Sorry folks.

just because RMS didn't like Tivo, GPLv3 was created to destroy freedom. And FSF fanbois act like it was a good thing.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

With GPLv2: here is the source code. You can't change to firmware because of the bootloader. But we can upload security updates.
With GPLv3: here is the source code. Nobody can change the firmware. We would have to open it up completely. We don't like to be sued by Hollywood. So we closed it down. Sorry folks.

just because RMS didn't like Tivo, GPLv3 was created to destroy freedom. And FSF fanbois act like it was a good thing.

The last I checked Hollywood makes movies not software I don't understand what movies have to do with software. Could you provide real examples of the GPLv3 license having an opposite effect as you claim it does.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

With GPLv2: here is the source code. You can't change to firmware because of the bootloader. But we can upload security updates.
With GPLv3: here is the source code. Nobody can change the firmware. We would have to open it up completely. We don't like to be sued by Hollywood. So we closed it down. Sorry folks.

just because RMS didn't like Tivo, GPLv3 was created to destroy freedom. And FSF fanbois act like it was a good thing.

The last I checked Hollywood makes movies not software I don't understand what movies have to do with software. Could you provide real examples of the GPLv3 license having an opposite effect as you claim it does.


'an opposite effect'? Opposite from what?

And that you don't understand why Hollywood is important in this context just shows your lack of understanding the whole picture. Hollywood has a fucking lot to do with software.

Just ask AMD why it was so hard to push code supporting their UVD engine (fear that someone uses the knowledge to break into 'secure' HD video streams to rip them - because Hollywood studies would sue them into oblivion).

And hey, what is worse: a device where only the manufactuerer can update the code and close security holes or a device that can't be updated at all and stays insecure forever?

GPLv3 pushes the later. Which makes GPLv3 supporters not only enemies of freedom (to use software), but also a group supporting bad security. As if we don't have enough bot nets out there.

Now please, do the world a favour: pull the cable out of your router, ok?
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Android has done more to disseminate Linux and FOSS software than GNU ever achieved.

Google/Linux or even Java/Linux is a million time more accurate than GNU/Linux
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