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| GNU/Linux or Linux alone? |
| GNU/Linux |
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42% |
[ 184 ] |
| Linux |
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35% |
[ 153 ] |
| Don't Care |
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22% |
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| Total Votes : 436 |
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Deranger
Veteran
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1215
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 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:52 am Post subject: |
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...AND THE WAR CONTINUES! 
| c0balt wrote: |
GNU/Linux, more than definitely.
Whats GNU without Linux? An OS without a kernel.
Whats Llinux without GNU? A kernel without an OS.
They are just like Ernie and Bert, NOTHING without the other. Wink
Richard Stallman deserves the same respect as Linus Torvalds.
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You're damn right! |
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pablo_supertux
Advocate
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 2569
Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| c0balt wrote: | GNU/Linux, more than definitely.
Whats GNU without Linux? An OS without a kernel.
Whats Linux without GNU? A kernel without an OS.
They are just like Ernie and Bert, NOTHING without the other. 
Richard Stallman deserves the same respect as Linus Torvalds. |
me too. GNU/Linux must be the only one.
| c0balt wrote: | | Richard Stallman deserves the same respect as Linus Torvalds. |
Yes, and I think without GNU Linus Torvald weren't able to make Linux. Without Linus Torvalds GNU were able to create their own system, perhaphs not in the 90' but the system would have become reality (it exists today, there is already GNU/Hurd)
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kalisphoenix
Apprentice
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think that we should just dispense with names altogether and use grunts and moans to refer to... uh... *grunt* Because that's what I spent most of my time doing.
Fiancee: "Nate, can I print something?"
Me: *breaks CUPS* "Uh, not exactly... "
Fiancee: "What's wrong?"
Me: *grunts* |
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MalachiX
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Miami, Fl
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| GNU/Linux because Linux is GNU software. You can say Linux for short for those who know that already. |
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pablo_supertux
Advocate
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 2569
Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| MalachiX wrote: | | GNU/Linux because Linux is GNU software. |
I don't know what you understand under GNU, but Linux isn't GNU software. Do you mean GPL? But that's a different story.
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Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
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Gentoonie
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 205
Location: near Munich | Bavaria | Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Its only Linux, because if you mention GNU, you can also mention all the other stuff, and that makes no sense.
I mean, i dont run a GNU-Linux-apache-xmms-openbox-X.org-GNOME system.
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GCC 4, Kernel 2.6.14-ck7, NPTL |
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c0balt
Guru
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 441
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Gentoonie wrote: | Its only Linux, because if you mention GNU, you can also mention all the other stuff, and that makes no sense.
I mean, i dont run a GNU-Linux-apache-xmms-openbox-X.org-GNOME system. |
that would go a little bit far, but LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl/PHP/Python) actually is a accepted name. |
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pablo_supertux
Advocate
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 2569
Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gentoonie wrote: | Its only Linux, because if you mention GNU, you can also mention all the other stuff, and that makes no sense.
I mean, i dont run a GNU-Linux-apache-xmms-openbox-X.org-GNOME system. |
what you don't understand is that the original operating system's name is GNU, you say GNU/Linux because the GNU Operating System runs Linux as its kernel, and that's why the name of the whole system is GNU/Linux. It doesn't have anything to do with the software you are running, the discussion is: which is the name of the OS? And it's name ist GNU. GNU/Linux is the name of this OS, that use GNU and Linux together. Do you understand?
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Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
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Gentoonie
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 205
Location: near Munich | Bavaria | Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| pablo_supertux wrote: | | Gentoonie wrote: | Its only Linux, because if you mention GNU, you can also mention all the other stuff, and that makes no sense.
I mean, i dont run a GNU-Linux-apache-xmms-openbox-X.org-GNOME system. |
what you don't understand is that the original operating system's name is GNU, you say GNU/Linux because the GNU Operating System runs Linux as its kernel, and that's why the name of the whole system is GNU/Linux. It doesn't have anything to do with the software you are running, the discussion is: which is the name of the OS? And it's name ist GNU. GNU/Linux is the name of this OS, that use GNU and Linux together. Do you understand? |
Sure i understand, but GNU software doesnt require a Linux kernel to run. It works on BSD etc too. But the kernel is the heart of your operating system, so i reduce the name to the kernel.
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palmer
Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 320
Location: Berkeley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Linux, it's easier to say... |
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pablo_supertux
Advocate
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 2569
Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gentoonie wrote: |
Sure i understand, but GNU software doesnt require a Linux kernel to run. It works on BSD etc too. But the kernel is the heart of your operating system, so i reduce the name to the kernel. |
I am not talking about the software that has written by GNU, I am talking about the operating system that GNU wrote, and it's name is GNU, too.
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freelight
Apprentice
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 295
Location: NYC, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I recognize that GNU/Linux is the correct name, but I shorten it to "Linux" because as a name, it's more practical. "GNU/Linux" just isn't marketable, unfortunately. (And hearing the way Stallman says it, "Gnu Slash Linux", is just ridiculous.) |
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ansient
Guru
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 445
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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I use GNU/Linux when in context it is necessary to distinguish it from a Linuce that does not use GNU tools (e.g. an embedded system)
The FSF and RMS in particular should be proud that their GNU components are by far the most popular standard for the Linux kernel, and quit bitching.
When the less clued user says "Linux", they are not refering to the GNU components. Rather, they are thinking of GNOME, KDE, or X itself and the various GUI tools that go along with them.
People who are actually using "Linux" to refer to the kernel + GNU components, already know enough to know what GNU is and do not need an awkward name to be made aware of this. |
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freelight
Apprentice
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 295
Location: NYC, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ansient wrote: | | People who are actually using "Linux" to refer to the kernel + GNU components, already know enough to know what GNU is and do not need an awkward name to be made aware of this. |
Actually that's not always true. I've talked to many fresh GNU/Linux converts who had no idea about GNU and what they stand for. I corrected this, of course  Remember, Stallman isn't bitching because he wants credit, he's bitching because he's in it for the politics more than the software, and can't stand seeing people ignore the politics. He's just a guy with unwavering principles, and I respect that. |
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c0balt
Guru
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 441
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| freelight wrote: | | I recognize that GNU/Linux is the correct name, but I shorten it to "Linux" because as a name, it's more practical. "GNU/Linux" just isn't marketable, unfortunately. (And hearing the way Stallman says it, "Gnu Slash Linux", is just ridiculous.) |
I always thought it sounds funny how he says it^^
And marketable or not, I dont care, crazy capitalist talk^^ |
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pablo_supertux
Advocate
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 2569
Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| freelight wrote: | | . "GNU/Linux" just isn't marketable, unfortunately. |
why not? you always see Microsoft Windows although "Windows" alone is easier. I don't think that Richards S. and Linus Torvalds first though was about to create a marketable product with which they can make lots of mony instead of creating a free unix like system.
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Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
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mc_03
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| pablo_supertux wrote: | | freelight wrote: | | . "GNU/Linux" just isn't marketable, unfortunately. |
why not? you always see Microsoft Windows although "Windows" alone is easier. I don't think that Richards S. and Linus Torvalds first though was about to create a marketable product with which they can make lots of mony instead of creating a free unix like system. |
The relation is different. Windows belongs to Microsoft; Windows is a Microsoft product, a Microsoft creation. The same rules apply to "Gentoo Linux." (Well, Gentoo doesn't own Linux, but they created a variant of Linux.) This fact is clear if you include the implied possessive: Microsoft's Windows, Gentoo's Linux. We don't want it to sound as if GNU owns or created Linux or a variant of Linux, since this is not true. So that's what the / is for, implying that "GNU" and "Linux" are both equally important, and one is not superior or dominant. But it's still awkward and uncommon, and requires too much explanation when one is just bringing up Linux in a casual conversation, especially when talking to people who are having trouble grasping the concept of alternate open operating systems in the first place. |
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homeobocks
Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 345
Location: I'm from Canada, and they say I'm a little slow . . . eh?
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am Post subject: |
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What's in a name?
No, seriously, I really don't know. It's a terrible condition.
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HOW DO I SHOT WEB |
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freelight
Apprentice
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 295
Location: NYC, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| pablo_supertux wrote: | | freelight wrote: | | . "GNU/Linux" just isn't marketable, unfortunately. |
why not? you always see Microsoft Windows although "Windows" alone is easier. I don't think that Richards S. and Linus Torvalds first though was about to create a marketable product with which they can make lots of mony instead of creating a free unix like system. |
By "marketable" I don't mean a money generator, I mean something that will appeal to the general public. IMHO, GNU/Linux sounds a bit awkward, and while I understand what RMS is saying, I don't like having to explain about the Free Software movement and go into the history of GNU and Linux when first introducing the product to a potential convert. "Here, try Linux" works better than "Here, try GNU/Linux", because I don't want to immediately explain what GNU is and what the distinction is. This is necessery, but in its own time.
"Microsoft Windows" works well because it's very simple - Microsoft is the company that makes Windows. In part, it's this very mentality that makes "GNU/Linux" more complex. |
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fisherking
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Stallman is acting like a spoiled child! Linux and Linux only is the stuff!
Thalion had the right oppinion back on page two! There are more to Linux than GNU... what about the rest?
This discussion is stupid, I am embarrassed even posting to this thread! : |
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pablo_supertux
Advocate
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 2569
Location: Somewhere between reality and Middle-Earth and in Freiburg (Germany)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| freelight wrote: |
GNU/Linux sounds a bit awkward, ...
I don't like having to explain about the Free Software movement and go into the history of GNU and Linux when first introducing the product to a potential convert. "Here, try Linux" works better than "Here, try GNU/Linux", because I don't want to immediately explain what GNU is and what the distinction is. |
I don't think so. We are discussing about a name that uses only 3 letters and not 15 exotics letters; do you want to tell me that GNU is hard to speak?
If GNU/Linux were used from the begining you would say today, there is no problems, because it sounds good and it is as easy to speak as "Linux" alone. What I mean: GNU/Linux is not complicated to speak, you don't need to explain what is GNU and its history. You don't do that if you say Microsoft Windows or MacOS either.
I think, the problem is that everybody got known GNU/Linux as Linux and thus this is the reason why you think saying Linux is easier than GNU/linux. And I know, if everybody first heard only "GNU/Linux" you would think today, it is normal to say GNU/Linux.
| fisherking wrote: | | This discussion is stupid, I am embarrassed even posting to this thread! : |
Nobody told you, you have to discuss with us about this.
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Sloden
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 93
Location: Nidaros: Card Board Box, Second Floor
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Linux. I've never uttered the words GNU/Linux, since no one (except perhaps Rainman and his like) will ever misunderstand the term Linux, and I don't like wasting air on formalities.
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zenlunatic
Guru
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I found this on a slashdot article...
| Quote: | Linus did not choose the name `Linux'. Linus chose the name `Freax' and the guy running the funet.fi archive decided that was a horrible name and renamed the kernel for him.
People gathered around this new operating system that was being written from scratch, and they wrote piles of tools that were missing for this new Linux thing. Many tools came from GNU, yes, but many others were assembled and contributed by many people specifically to make Linux run. |
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fridrik
n00b
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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GNU/Linux
as I don't use Linux because it is better than others. Instead I use GNU/Linux because it is free as in freedom |
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Paapaa
l33t
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 955
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| zenlunatic wrote: | I found this on a slashdot article...
| Quote: | | Linus did not choose the name `Linux'. Linus chose the name `Freax' and the guy running the funet.fi archive decided that was a horrible name and renamed the kernel for him. |
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But I think Linus really invented the name Linux (before Freax):
| Quote: | | "Linux was my working name," Linus says, "but if I actually used it as the official one, people would think that I was an egomaniac and wouldn't take it seriously. So I chose this very bad name: Freax" - free + freak + x. "Sick, I know." Ari Lemmke, who ran the FTP site, decided he didn't like the Freax label, so he used the working name instead. |
http://www.wired.com/wired/5.08/linux_pr.html |
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