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sukotto
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:08 pm    Post subject: I want a stage 4 install :-) Reply with quote

Just minor rant.

I wish that Gentoo offered a Stage 4 install in addition to the other 3 stages. One that lets you install fast.
something like this.
  1. Boot live CD
  2. Partition and mount filesystem
  3. chroot
  4. untar stage4 system snapshot (basic system just like the LiveCD... but with an operational set of config files already installed).
  5. copy liveCD kernel to /boot
  6. fstab
  7. grub or lilo
  8. DONE


After reboot emerge -K a few things I want (like xfree, kde, apache, mod_php). Giving me a system that's ready to go in under 30 minutes.

Then, if and when I want to, I can play with my USE settings, build an optimised kernel, and emerge -u <whatever>

Basically, I'm feeling impatient. I love the idea of Gentoo, that it's a meta-distro, that it has such fantastic package management, that it optimises itself to my machine. But I want a working system first.

Kind of a pointless rant I know :-) But I do wish something like this was available (and supported).

Ok, rant done. I now return you to your regularly scheduled list of "help!" posts :-)

Sukotto

oh, I found this howto. Worth a try!
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Ateo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey bro...

Try to keep your posts' related to the forum. This has nothing to do with an actual gentoo installation. It's a rant and rants have a home. Take a look at the main index page of the forums and take a guess where rants go...

Peace.
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sukotto
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't think this is install related? :-)

Maybe "Other Things Gentoo" or "Chat" would be better.
Admins, please move this post if you wish.

Thanks

Sukotto
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lkenner
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a stage4.... follow the link: www.redhat.com

=P
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Bodhammer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:44 pm    Post subject: I found the post interesting Reply with quote

I do think this is an install question as I have the same concerns. I have slow maching (p2-450) that I use for experimenting and I want to move from Debian to something with slightly newer packages. I would love to do a quick install and then start things compiling in the background. This is a ligitimate concern and a good feature request.

Thanks for the link.

P.
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christsong84
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

installing gentoo is a support forum (note it's under the category "Assistance")

...suggestions and such generally go to the Gentoo Chat forums I believe. (since it's related to gentoo)

I think it's a good suggestion myself :)
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ian!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

christsong84 wrote:
installing gentoo is a support forum (note it's under the category "Assistance")

...suggestions and such generally go to the Gentoo Chat forums I believe. (since it's related to gentoo)


Indeed.

Moved to 'Gentoo Chat'.

--ian!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't use it myself, but the idea has a lot of merit. It's ironic that Gentoo is a pain to set up on slow systems - the very systems that would most benefit from the optimisation and streamlining.

It probably would mean we'd end up with a lot of people who'd never bothered to recompile their system, is this bad thing or not?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deebster wrote:
I wouldn't use it myself, but the idea has a lot of merit. It's ironic that Gentoo is a pain to set up on slow systems - the very systems that would most benefit from the optimisation and streamlining.

It probably would mean we'd end up with a lot of people who'd never bothered to recompile their system, is this bad thing or not?


point 1: I agree...it's kinda ironic but I guess if something's worth taking the time for...take your time with it. :)

point 2. true...but then again the chinstrap project kinda does that too doesn't it?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deebster wrote:
I wouldn't use it myself, but the idea has a lot of merit. It's ironic that Gentoo is a pain to set up on slow systems - the very systems that would most benefit from the optimisation and streamlining.

It probably would mean we'd end up with a lot of people who'd never bothered to recompile their system, is this bad thing or not?


I'm a great believer in the "Get it working, then get it fast" school of computer science. My computer is only good if it's in some kind of usable state. I'm quite happy to optimize the hell out of it, but I'd prefer to start from a working system.

Besides, think of the bragging rights. "The install only took 30 minutes and after the first week it's running 30% faster than RH did on the same box".

Yes, I understand that stage 3 is supposed to do that (and I guess it does for a large part), but stage 3 still takes me quite a lot of time to accomplish... mostly because of the kernel, first choosing options then compiling.

I suppose I'm lazy or spoiled, but damn... I'd love to start out with something like a Knoppix install. THEN fiddle with use flags and other optimizations and let it recompile stuff in the background.

:D HA! The more I talk about it, the more greedy I get!

best wishes

Sukotto

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo is a meta-distribution; can be used for creating distributions and even provides the tools to do it.

If you don't get what I'm saying, I'll summarise: you can make your own stage4 install. ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've installed gentoo a few times but the last time I first booted with knoppix and went from there rather than the live cd. THe install guide already has instructions on how to do that. It was nice to hve a system running while emerging in the background. I will surely do this the next time I install gentoo too.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deebster wrote:
I wouldn't use it myself, but the idea has a lot of merit. It's ironic that Gentoo is a pain to set up on slow systems - the very systems that would most benefit from the optimisation and streamlining.

It probably would mean we'd end up with a lot of people who'd never bothered to recompile their system, is this bad thing or not?


While I see what you mean, I think the idea is missing something. Optimisation in gentoo usually means "get the most out of your hardware" which I see applying more to NEW systems, where binary distro's don't take advantage of the specific arch.
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senectus
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is EXACTLY what I want..

Seriously..

Go to installfest
pick up "Stage 4 Gentoo CD"
do this:
Quote:
1. Boot live CD
2. Partition and mount filesystem
3. chroot
4. untar stage4 system snapshot (basic system just like the LiveCD... but with an operational set of config files already installed).
5. copy liveCD kernel to /boot
6. fstab
7. grub or lilo
8. DONE



Spend the next few weeks playing with flags and use setting and doing "emerge -e system" and "emerge -e world", plus playing with different kernel attempts to get me the effect of a stage 1 install without being down a machine untill I can figure it out..

I wish I could help someone build and support this idea, I think it has mucho merit.
Alas I'm still struggling with the basic install *feels stupid*
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Last edited by senectus on Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

instead of redhat, try slackware. with slack I can get a system up and running in 20 minutes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he still wants portage along with others Gentoo benefits, which can not be found in Slack.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

obviously.

the loss of portage is the price you pay for an install that takes 20 minutes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well..dunno.... You can still install the portagetree from LiveCD, vi /etc/make.conf and then emerge --deep system, which you do AFTER finished installation. I mean you can just copy the LiveCD and start using Gentoo, including X and so, while building your *optimized* system in background. Can't you?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i make my own "stage4" install for every PC I install gentoo on. wish I had a dvd burner, though...I have to split it up to several CDs.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allucid wrote:
i make my own "stage4" install for every PC I install gentoo on. wish I had a dvd burner, though...I have to split it up to several CDs.


Can you pls write a HOWTO about this?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panzerboy wrote:
allucid wrote:
i make my own "stage4" install for every PC I install gentoo on. wish I had a dvd burner, though...I have to split it up to several CDs.


Can you pls write a HOWTO about this?


yeah. i'll work on one later.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be greatly appreciated..
If there is anything I can do to help let me know, I have machines and a few hours every day to test it if you want..
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: distcc? Reply with quote

Deebster wrote:
It's ironic that Gentoo is a pain to set up on slow systems


Isn't distcc intended for such systems?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panzerboy wrote:
Can you pls write a HOWTO about this?


here's the first draft. :)
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senectus
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool.. now all we need is a way to do this by pulling the "pc specific" stuff off the live CD enviroment.. :-)
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