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kraylus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:45 am    Post subject: nuther linux distro 'sides gentoo... Reply with quote

spare me your flame! i'm aware of the awesomenicity of the gentoo linux OS! so don't lay that on me ;)

and yes, i know awesomenicity isnt a word, but it sounds cool... maybe not....

anyhoo, gentoo's great. i likes it a lot. but i tend to fiddle with it a lot, and it tends to break a lot. sometimes the quickest fix is reinstalling from a stage3. it gets tiresome, naturally. especially because my poor wife isn't seeing much of me when i have to reinstall gentoo and get everything back to perfectection. this can sometimes take the entire weekend.

now sure, you can say to me "don't break your system then, moron!" to that, i say... nothing. i have nothing to say to that. i also tire of having to download dependencies and compile them each time i want a new app. i may have to wait an hour or two before i can use said app. and oftentimes... i need that app NOW!

many other little things, really... don't make me go into it, please. there! now that i've backed up my reasoning (however shoddily)...

i want a decent linuxOS that won't require me to relearn everything gentoo has taught me. i want it to be a popular one so that "tech support" wont be hard to find. i like the auto-resolution of dependencies that gentoo, bsd, debian does. i hear that rpm's now include such a thing. i want pre-rolled binaries too. when it comes time to install an app, i dont want to compile it.

i've come down to a few:

lycoris. i hear it's nice and st00pid. i want something nice and st00pid. works outta the box, doesnt require me to think, and it looks pretty. all the nice apps are installed for you to begin with and you even get support. live updates online, etc. etc.

redhat 8. i've heard good and bad. has the new rpm system the resolves dependencies too. that spiffy looking new interface. i forget what it's called. luna? no wait, thats XP. whichever. it's neat. and most games ported to linux are meant to be on a redhat system. very important to have game compatibility.

debian. i hear nothing but good about debian, but i'd have to totally relearn all the proprieatary command line tools that control the OS (apt-get.) they also have antiquated (or "stable") software in their apt-get thingy. they just NOW got kde2. i dunno. not "duh duh" enough.

mandrake. doesnt get much more "duh duh" than this. hella slow last time i used it (mandrake 7.) lotta nice features though. hard to say.

if im completely off-base on anything, please let me know and correct me. i dont mind paying for a linuxOS but i do mind paying for more than one. i want to make a good choice (there's probably no "right" choice ;)) the first time. i just want something that pampers me for my everyday use like email and browsing, html editing, graphics editing, etc. and in my spare time, i can dink around with gentoo. i dont like having windows installed to be my primary OS because im afraid that gentoo's gonna flop at any moment (usually a pebkac error, but that goes with the territory.)

thanks for your time!

ryan
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hook
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm ...pity :(

if you have to go, i would prefer slackware, but if you have to choose between these distros, i would suggest debian ...it's the most like gentoo ...the way i see it
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, both Red Had 8 and Mandrake 9 are awesome. If you prefer KDE, go Mandrake. If you prefer Gnome, go Red Hat. You can't really go wrong either way.

Other differences: if you prefer your documentation online, go Mandrake. If you prefer it in the form of dead trees, go Red Hat. Red Hat, being the RPM inventor, has more software available in this format. Mandrake is compatible with more USB hardware.

Two distros that at one point only had one key difference are very different, and both very good in their own ways now. You really can't go wrong with either.

It'll be interesting to see who prevails between Lycoris, Xandros, and Lindows...I don't think all three can be supported commercially.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will always have to deal with dependcies, whether it's Gentoo, Red Hat, Mandrake, Debian, or whatever. Even Windows is famous for dll hell. And there's nothing wrong with switching distros, I usually have a couple or five lying around on my harddrive, each with it's own little attractions and quirks.

As for compiling sources versus binaries, it's a personal choice I guess...but there has been more than a few times where I've been able to fix a problem by editing a line or two in a program to get it to work right, especially with fresh tgz's. The source gives you power, if you use it "Luke" B-).
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched from Gentoo to Mandrake, and I'm considering SuSE also.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 2:22 pm    Post subject: Why not dual boot Gentoo + Gentoo Reply with quote

I have a dual boot with SuSE and Gentoo at home.
Gentoo is the primary OS I have a very simple setup with ICEwm Opera, Mozilla, Lyx, AbiWord, gVim. I havn't had time to do more with this home machine (too many servers at work taking up my time) so I use SuSE for burning CD-ROMs etc as it works out of the box. The latest version 8.1 lhas a much better looking desktop that my 8.0 version.

Or if you only want a simple setup why not have two versions of Gentoo. A stable version and an experimental version.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just make a solid gentoo then make an image of it before you start fu$%& with it.. if you fu%&* it just re-apply your image.
If you always want the latest and best software only gentoo will provided it. All the other distro's are behind.. offcourse you can always compile the sources on redhat put thats only going to complicate things for you... maybe what you need is a dual boot of gentoo. A stable one and one that you mess with.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest RedHat 8 - although for a production server go with a .2 or .3 release not a .0 release.

Their online docs site is pretty thorough and if you have a lot of machines to keep track of, the Red Hat Network is actually pretty useful in that regard.

(That being said, Gentoo is still my favorite dist :P)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend Mandrake9 or Slackware.

and DO NOT choose debian!
i had very very bad experience with it, these are the distros/oses i tryed.
redhat6.3, redhat7.x-somethin, Mandrake8.2, Mandrake9, Slackware7-something, Slackware8.1, FreeBSD the version before the current one, Debian woody. and of windozes i tryed Windows98, win2k and winxp.
Gentoo is my favourite among all those :)
and i only have it installed sence like april something, just upgraded to gc3.2 with the script when it was available.

First time i tryed debian it went fine, until it tryed to install X, i didnt choos to install it i think it was some dep, i didnt choose to installe kde or gnome or anything else that i could think of whould need X, then it crashed, well not crash but i got the Very Very unoing "Sorry Debian is not Prfect" message.. UUUug! I didnt THINK it was perfect ok. damn it, i just hate OSes that try to figure (asumes) out what i think, it like remindes me of win98...:S i just hate when a compjuterprogram asumes something. what does the author really try to imply some sort of ai to it? its ok with small programs and such but an os... ush.. gentoo doenst do that.
x broke due to some .deb file error. forgot the error sence i thouht it is unncesevery, the installation screwed, and i didnt continue sence i want a clean isntall if i want to try a new thing.
next time i give it a go, all went fine, exepct some not so critical error, it installed fine but i just didnt like the dselect thing, ugly.
then i installed gnome i think it was, and then the Debian menu came....... /* NO COMMEN */
its like IE, trying to make a nonstandard thing standard, and the logo is ugly... so back to Gentoo, and i havent bothered to try new thing exepct mandrake9 sence then.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides Gentoo, I've been happiest running Debian unstable. Not the latest software, but unstable isn't too bad, and the best mailing lists I've found. The information to be found in the archives is amazing. Pluss, like Gentoo, it won't hold your hand. Apt-get rules, and is very easy to learn. Besides that and dpkg-reconfigure, there is not really that much "debian" stuff to learn. I love it, and run it on my other machines, ranging from 2 p166 laptops, to a k6-3.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if you hang out on the LinuxNewbie.Org boards at all, but there's one person who recommends Arch Linux whenever anyone mentions Gentoo. It's worth a look; I'm going to try it out on my Crappy-Winbook-That-I-May-Soon-Sell(TM) this weekend.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys guys!

im not *leaving* gentoo ;) my gentoo partition is still sticking around. i just cant use it as my primary OS ;) why? because i like to dink around with it. it's the nature of the gentoo OS. it's "bleeding edge" as some would say.

ill still use it in my spare time, but i cant use it for mainstream things, like email. i recieve a lot of important email from clients that i need to be able to keep track of. i dont want to have to back up my email folder anytime i do an update world. i dont want to make an image of my gentoo disk (i dont have a cdr anyways) when it comes time to install the new X. i want to wipe it clean and start over. that's the way the cookie bounces!

i wanted redhat for being able to use when gentoo crashes again. kinda like how windows users revert to their windows install when their redhat crashes and burns.

im not leaving :mrgreen: i could never leave gentoo or the awesome folks in these forums. gentoo 0wnZ me.

ryan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i suggest red hat, lycoris or drake. they are pretty wothless. Then you'll understand how great gentoo is. Ive never used debian, but i used slackware(equally good reputation) for a while when i needed a system up fast. It lasted 2 days. Now running gentoo on that box also.

See ya soon.
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kraylus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh*

i already know how great gentoo is... read my previous post.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was learning Gentoo I kept a Mandrake install on the computer in the event I really screwed things up (and I did a few times). It worked great for me the few times I had to use it (I imagine you will be using it much more) but I was using blackbox on fairly good hardware which may be why I didn't notice any slowdown.

On the off chance you might not have considered this: you could keep two Gentoo installs on the computer (what I currently have) one for screwing up and the other for primary use. Obviously you wouldn't do stuff like emerge world and experiment with it. You could also use rpm from gentoo so you won't have to compile everything yourself. If you've already considered and rejected this I do think Mandrake will do (although I haven't touched it recently) and it does handle the autoconfiguration of just about everything.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraylus wrote:
*sigh*

i already know how great gentoo is... read my previous post.


I guess what people are trying to say is that of all the Linux distros they've tried, Gentoo is actually one of the most tinker-proof distros they've tried. This is certainly my sentiment.

I've tried RedHat, Mandrake, and Suse (not the current versions of those), all of which have broken in various ways when updating software or recompiling the kernels. Lycoris is good, but as others have mentioned, dumbed-down. It also tends to break a bit under tinkering. I'm planning on installing it this weekend on my wife's computer. Neither it nor Debian (another strong recommendation) have kde3, my preferred environment.

I coulnd't go anywhere without mentioning FreeBSD, my favorite OS when I'm not on my Gentoo desktop box. It's pretty tinker-proof, the ports system is similar to Gentoo's (different syntax), and binary packages are available for most of the contents of the ports tree. However, FreeBSD doesn't have mature DRI drivers yet for most of the recent video cards, which drove me to Gentoo in the first place. Other than that, it is a *very* mature, stable operating system, and it can be built from source just like Gentoo (although the install is all-binary). Never had a crash (other than hardware failure), which is more than I can say for Linux.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not have a Gentoo stable partition and a Gentoo unstable partition? It won't speed up software installs, but it will avoid those nasty moments when you realise you've just trashed (temporarily or permenantly) your main installation.

Personally I have 3 installs, my home m/c which has the latest stuff on it and is experimented with frequently. My work m/c which stays untouched until I'm happy that the changes or new software work ok on my main machine and then my server which doesn't get updated until I've had the packages installed and tested on the other two machines.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lycoris might be worth a look...maybe it would even get a bit of interest from your wife....joe use to work for microsoft and developed redmond/lycoris linux and kinda gave it a windows look and tried as best as he could to make it newbie friendly as far as hardware detection and its user interface....but no matter what distrobution you choose if you go messing with it your likely to break it, i ahve been running gentoo (1.2 gcc-2.95.3) with out any real trouble.....very stable so you might just use some self control...lol
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KungFuHamster wrote:
I don't know if you hang out on the LinuxNewbie.Org boards at all, but there's one person who recommends Arch Linux whenever anyone mentions Gentoo. It's worth a look; I'm going to try it out on my Crappy-Winbook-That-I-May-Soon-Sell(TM) this weekend.


That sounds like Sarah31.....
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KungFuHamster
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
KungFuHamster wrote:
I don't know if you hang out on the LinuxNewbie.Org boards at all, but there's one person who recommends Arch Linux whenever anyone mentions Gentoo. It's worth a look; I'm going to try it out on my Crappy-Winbook-That-I-May-Soon-Sell(TM) this weekend.


That sounds like Sarah31.....


The one and only.
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KungFuHamster
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered using Windows XP?


<dodges rotten vegtables thrown at him>
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha!

no, i have not considered windows xp and i dont believe i will ;)

im using redhat 8 as we speak and im liking every minute of it. except the intial few seconds when i realized that mp3 support is nowhere to be found and i had to install an rpm for xmms. apparently they didnt wanna pay to license their OS for mp3s. they have full ogg support tho ;)

this is spiffy stuff. nice and idiot proof! i can finally prove to my wife that it IS possible to get linux up and running in 30 minutes with NO hassle and STILL have a full suite of apps to use right after. ha! and she lost all faith in linux....
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to run a few PCs and always have Gentoo installed on one and Debian on the other. At the moment I'm in the lucky situation where I have Red Hat Advanced Server, Gentoo 1.2 and Debian installed on separate PCs. Its always good to know you way around a few.

For me Debian is my binary distro of choice, usually testing, sometimes unstable, as I find it easy to configure with the usual Debian advantages.

Jon
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My approach to restoring a system is quite simple --

1. Back up all non-regeneratable files -- /etc, /home, /root etc...
2. keep running list of packages installed
3. When a restore is imminent, clear drive, set it to compiling the list from #2.
4. When compile completes (about 2 days w/o intervention), restore those from #1, and my system is back on it's feet with a minimum of interaction from me.
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