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zubauza
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 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| shift wrote: | | http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front.png |
the design looks great but i think its a bit lame to scale down the ads and make them purple too
just my opninion :D
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blaksaga
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| calande wrote: | | blaksaga wrote: | | aLEczapKA wrote: | I don't want to sound like a biatch but lets cool down guys and look with a cool eye from a top.. to picture bigger view...
Your design looks great, no doubt about it - if gentoo website was about to sell insurances or something...
What does this chick have to do with gentoo? Asiade that she looks nice nothing...
Sorry I don't wanna rain on your parade shift, its a great design but for different website, not for gentoo, cause
people do trust simple sites.
Gentoo website should be simple, functional yet beautiful. I admit its hard to achive.
My 0.02 cents... |
Replace the girl with larry the cow!  |
Linux, and computing in general is too much for men. Linux needs girls. Yeah! Whoo! Where are the girls on this forum, c'mon! |
If you squint, larry the cow kind of looks like a girl.
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viperlin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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reminds me of my ISP's website http://www.ntl.com/index.html
and thats not a good thing 
anyway i still like the design, good going shift |
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calande
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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C'mon guys, just because there's the photo of a girl on a Linux web site
I'm pretty sure this little honey is looking for a geek to teach her how to use Gentoo. Could one of you guys teach her the basics? |
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calande
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| shift wrote: | Hi guys,
Here's a draft of my entry. It's somewhat finalized, but I'd like to get some feedback before I submit it to Gentoo.
http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front.png
The mockup is based on 800px window width (780px + 20px allowance for scrollbars/borders).
My vision is that it will be able to adjust with the client's resolution. A fixed-width design for a content-rich site like Gentoo's isn't really the best way to go.
The graphic with the woman's face should also be on a rotation of some sort, I've got some more goodies here. The reason why I choose that image is to give the site a more "human" feeling.
Purple isn't an easy color to work with, nor is it the most consistent color across different monitors. I haven't checked it on another monitor yet, so be warned! 
Let me know what you think. |
On the original web site, there are 5 ads, how will you place all of them on your new design? |
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shift
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Joined: 21 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Alright, lots of feedback, I like that. I will try to address them all.
| Quote: |
What does this chick have to do with gentoo? Asiade that she looks nice nothing...
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I will spend some time to address this comment, as that's the same reaction that I had myself when I was working on a design project for large tech client about 18 months ago. So I will share what I've learned. This was a rather large project and being the designer, I was only a small part of the grand scheme of their strategy. The design was already done and coded and integrated with the custom CMS built by their backend team, then their management approached me with a CD collection of images they just purchased and told me to use some of those to make the main graphic on their site. At the time the main graphic was some nice techy stuff related to computers/networks etc. I opened up some of the images and every image contained people in various generic poses and locations. I thought they must've given me the wrong CD!! wtf?!
I told them that and they hooked me up with their marketing team and this is what I learned from them. They've spent a lot of time and money conducting research on sites within their field. What they found out was that a lot of tech sites tend to be set in a very technical tone and they have a high degree of specialzation. A lot of them also like to use the blue/gray/black color schemes. This trend was especially bad around 2000 that a lot of research firms had already started to analyze the problem.
The consequence of such sites is that they feel "cold" and "unwelcoming," like a 800 page reference book at the basement level of a concrete library. Regardless of the nature of the site, unless its SOLE purpose is to provide a look up of information (i.e. a patent database, etc.), these characteristics causes the site defract from the purpose of the organization.
I am not a specialist in marketing or human behavior, nor do I have large budgets to do this kind of research, so I did not know this until I worked with specialists on that project.
Of course, I wasn't going to believe whatever I was told so I did some of my own analysis. Let's start with Novell. The current version of their site is an unprecedented advancedment in terms of corporate site design. When it was launched a while ago, it had set the bars for many sites that you see now. I won't go into analysis of the colors that they use, but let's look at the images. Novell is software products and solutions company, a bulk of their current product push is centered on Linux. Being such an IT company, the stereotypical site is one that is loaded with tech graphics that are based on servers, networking gear, computer components, or simulation/software screenshots. However, that isn't the case. Instead, Novell's site is loaded with graphics from everyday life: suit cases, sharpened pencil, contact card holder, etc. The front page has a woman meditating! What does that have to do with Linux software!?
Rather, those images play a crucial role in making the site seem people friendly, and making a visitor's browsing experience much more enjoyable. It also projects a Novell's corporate image, a professional, innovative, and caring company; instead of making a lot of products and selling as much of them as possible, it tries to understand what people need and deliver the solutions that matter to those specific people. Previous images on the front page also involved people (with the exception of the tree hedge  ). The best way to make people feel comfortable and welcome is to present them with...people just like them!
Now take a look at Cisco's site (images on rotation, refresh to see). There are 2 rotations, in one 3 out of 4 images contained people, in the other, 2 out of 4 contained people. A guy standing, a women reading a magazine, and another women using a PDA, two guys talking. This has to do with networking equipment how??!
Check HP's site (images are on a rotation also), 2/3 contains people, 1 being a familiar object (a house), while only 1 had a computer product.
Ditto with Intel, every major category's main image contains people.
Same with AMD, Lucent...the list go on.
There is overwhelming evidence that the industry is shifting toward a more people oriented approach, because they realize that in the end, 99% of the people on this planet are not techies and goals are not going to be achieved if they're limiting themselves to a very limited group of people. Same goes when they're recruiting, companies no longer want just the hardcore technical people, they want to recruit people with good attitudes, personalities, values. They realize that in order to compete in today's market where everyone's looking for an edge, it not what people know, but who they are.
The only way to open up to these unfound talent, is to create a corporate culture that embraces people of all kinds, making people feel welcome, creating an active and lively atmosphere that encourages creativity and innovation. One of the reason tech companies have shifted to warmer, brighter colors rather than the desaturated dull blue/gray combo?
One of the values that I pick up from the Gentoo community is that Gentooers are friendly and helpful. Why not capitalize on that?
Finally, as I mentioned in my first post, I have an arsenal of goodies that could go where the woman's face is. I said it would great to have them on a rotation of some sort. For my draft, I gambled on the woman's face because I think it's a great idea to help making women feel comfortable with Linux and to broaden the gender base. My university recently did some research on women in the IT industry, one of the leading reasons (simplified) why men outnumber women so much in IT is that women doesn't feel welcomed in the industry and felt hostility with their male colleagues. Why? Beats me, I wouldn't mind working with a roomful of women.
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tomek32
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:47 am Post subject: |
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I agree with everything shift said above. His site gives Gentoo a very professional and inviting feel.
I'd vote to stay with the picture of the woman, or similar ones that give Gentoo the human feel. But I guess if it came down to it, the developers can decide on an approriate picture.
Actually, this is what I first felt seperated Gentoo from Debian. Gentoo's site gives off a very cool and professional feel, while debian's site is just plain and unattractive. It makes me think Gentoo not only cares about the stuff under the hood, but also the aesthetics that make it plesent to work in (eye candy).
Isn't it much more inviting doing the install from the command line with bootsplash compared to just the plain old black and white text. |
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shift
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Joined: 21 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| zubauza wrote: | | shift wrote: | | http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front.png |
the design looks great but i think its a bit lame to scale down the ads and make them purple too
just my opninion |
It's not much smaller, but I think it'll be hard to maintain all the various colors that ads come in and trying to not make them distracting to the site. After all, it's bad prioritizing to let advertments come first and distract the users from the content of the site. the vr.org ad is fine in its orginal colors, but unfortunately some of the others do not. In the future, who knows what other colors they will be? Unless the admin selectively choses the ads or have a guideline for ads...
By making them purple, and putting them in their special area, it makes them noticeable, yet less distracting. The light gray background also serves as a damper.
I did take note of making sites compatible with 800x600 monitors. The current Gentoo site doesn't scale down to 800px width, so the ads get cut off anyway. I think the size trade off is worth it, you can still read everything that's on the ad, plus you get the text below like now. Someone posted before sugguesting text ads only, most advertisers would concede that some graphic is better than no graphic at all.
They're still quite visible IMHO. 
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shift
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| calande wrote: | | On the original web site, there are 5 ads, how will you place all of them on your new design? |
That is just an image mockup, it's by no means the final product!
In reality, it would probably go like the current site where people can scroll down more, although it probably shouldn't scroll down as much as the current site does...
Notice also it shows only 3 boxes for Docs, Resources, Community. You can have more front page jump pads like those for other sections like Projects, etc. In 800px it fits 3 boxes in a row, but higher resolutions it'll be able to fit more, they would be fluid so the boxes wrap around to a 2nd row in lower resolutions, i.e. 2 rows of 3 boxes each.
Hope that answers your question!
Good quesions!
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aLEczapKA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| shift wrote: | Alright, lots of feedback, I like that. I will try to address them all.
| Quote: |
What does this chick have to do with gentoo? Asiade that she looks nice nothing...
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Well great story but I didn't write _all_images_are_bad, I wrote and I repeat it: the chick has nothing to do with Gentoo.
All the sites you mensioned: the pictures fit into the content and into the given subject.
Your picture of the girl in your design has nothng to do with Linux, Gentoo and whatever this site is about.
Don't gent me wrong shift, I like your desing even with the girl, but as I mensioned already, it doesn't fit and I wouldn't like to see in it on Gentoo.org - its too bloated for me.
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shift
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if you read into the story. I specifically mentioned the use of "human" images in technology sites, whether or not they specifically involve people or just everyday images.
If you saw SuSE's site 2 week ago before they changed the banner (for their enterprise server), it had a guy sticking out his tongue. Now one can say, what does that have to do with Linux?!! Well, I've already detailed that in my other post so I won't do it all again lol. Even if you look at it now, there are still 2 prominent images with people in it...only they're both guys. One can argue that guys use Linux so those images are related, but so do women. I could put men in suits instead of a woman's face, but wouldn't that make Gentoo "too corporate"? I know enterprise use is one of Gentoo's aims, but we shouldn't make it overly corporate as a majority of our user base are Linux enthusiats. A generic photo like that can be anybody, corporate user or home user.
As I said again and again, there are many alternatives that can go in place of the women's face. A rotation of images based on refresh, etc. would be nice. It's not set in stone, ever.
I won't say much more on the issue of using that particular photo. I'll take your argument into consideration though and I will *make sure* to prepare other images that can go in its place.
Edit: I just saw your sig, have you seen that swedish safety video? It's funny as hell and had that chainsaw thing as part of the video. 
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fernandotcl
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Your design rules, shift. I couldn't even imagine something like that. Great work. |
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gigel
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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shift,great design,though i have something against that girl too,though i think the site looks more corporate.
kernel.org,slackware.org,and debian.org (and i believe gentoo.org should appear in this list also)are also linux related sites.
as for the browsing experience,yes,i agree with you,if my grandma will surf the web i'll bet that she is going to like the sites that show people in various positions etc..but imho those statistics are quite irellevant,cause i believe that the main browser used was internet explorer...and this has nothing to do with linux...
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reisio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I like debian's site :p
I hate most corporate sites, but that doesn't really matter much.
aaron's design is nice, I just don't like how she's looking right at us...like she's staring at me, heheh.
It kind of gives off a vibe like "Gentoo linux...we're watching you, muahahahHHAHAHAHAH!"
I don't recall any of those corporate sites having people looking right at you. They're generally focused a little elsewhere. |
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aLEczapKA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| shift wrote: | I don't know if you read into the story. I specifically mentioned the use of "human" images in technology sites, whether or not they specifically involve people or just everyday images. (...)
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okey, I don't wanna biatch anymore so I just shut up
| shift wrote: | | Edit: I just saw your sig, have you seen that swedish safety video? It's funny as hell and had that chainsaw thing as part of the video. |
Nope.. but I am looking forward to see it. Thx for the hint.
Anyways good luck with your design. Take care.
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shift
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Actually, your comments sparked some ideas for me. I thought about what you and some others have mentioned on the way back from work, put myself in another perspective and I think I got something. Gonna eat dinner in a bit and will try to whip up something on the new concepts afterward.
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toothcolt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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shift, i REALLY like your design!
i especially like the logo in the top left corner, where the two o's of gentoo are
written as the "infinite symbol" ...
just gives the logo some kind of last extra, somethign to think about |
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davideads
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:14 pm Post subject: A draft of my submission |
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Hi everybody,
I've been using Gentoo on my desktop for about 8 months, and it's the best distro I've run across for what I do.
I've got a draft of my submission to the contest up:
http://www.invisibleinstitute.com/gentoo/ii_gentoo_mockup.png
Several notes:
* The real HTML design would be XHTML Strict, CSS2. This is for several reasons: mainly accessibility, standards compliance, and maintenance. Further, one of my least favorite aspects of the Gentoo site is the way it degrades poorly in text browsers. When I was doing a Gentoo install last Christmas, I could only access the handbook in lynx, and it drove me batty.
* In that vein, the site would be designed to scale nicely in visual user agents. By no means does the design imply a fixed width column -- I've done several sites now that incorporate a more elastic model where widths are based on ems (and, consequently loosely track the number of characters per line). Were this design to be implemented, both fixed width and elastic designs would be options.
* The upper image could/should be context dependent -- I used something a friend shot recently that I thought was very pretty.
I also wanted to say that I really like the work other folks have posted here a lot. Shift's design is particularly good. I know there's only a few days left in the contest, but I think that this thread (or another one) could be a useful place to discuss many of the design issues in a redesign of this site. If I am able, I'll try to respond to some of the work posted here with some constructive criticism, and I welcome the same for my own work.
Thanks,
David |
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viperlin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: A draft of my submission |
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| davideads wrote: | Hi everybody,
I've been using Gentoo on my desktop for about 8 months, and it's the best distro I've run across for what I do.
I've got a draft of my submission to the contest up:
http://www.invisibleinstitute.com/gentoo/ii_gentoo_mockup.png
Several notes:
* The real HTML design would be XHTML Strict, CSS2. This is for several reasons: mainly accessibility, standards compliance, and maintenance. Further, one of my least favorite aspects of the Gentoo site is the way it degrades poorly in text browsers. When I was doing a Gentoo install last Christmas, I could only access the handbook in lynx, and it drove me batty.
* In that vein, the site would be designed to scale nicely in visual user agents. By no means does the design imply a fixed width column -- I've done several sites now that incorporate a more elastic model where widths are based on ems (and, consequently loosely track the number of characters per line). Were this design to be implemented, both fixed width and elastic designs would be options.
* The upper image could/should be context dependent -- I used something a friend shot recently that I thought was very pretty.
I also wanted to say that I really like the work other folks have posted here a lot. Shift's design is particularly good. I know there's only a few days left in the contest, but I think that this thread (or another one) could be a useful place to discuss many of the design issues in a redesign of this site. If I am able, I'll try to respond to some of the work posted here with some constructive criticism, and I welcome the same for my own work.
Thanks,
David |
wow man u have some fscked up fonts
but nice design, proffessional but still a bit..... OH DEAR LORD LOOK AT THE FONTS! |
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calande
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: A draft of my submission |
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| davideads wrote: | Hi everybody,
I've been using Gentoo on my desktop for about 8 months, and it's the best distro I've run across for what I do.
I've got a draft of my submission to the contest up:
http://www.invisibleinstitute.com/gentoo/ii_gentoo_mockup.png
Several notes:
* The real HTML design would be XHTML Strict, CSS2. This is for several reasons: mainly accessibility, standards compliance, and maintenance. Further, one of my least favorite aspects of the Gentoo site is the way it degrades poorly in text browsers. When I was doing a Gentoo install last Christmas, I could only access the handbook in lynx, and it drove me batty.
* In that vein, the site would be designed to scale nicely in visual user agents. By no means does the design imply a fixed width column -- I've done several sites now that incorporate a more elastic model where widths are based on ems (and, consequently loosely track the number of characters per line). Were this design to be implemented, both fixed width and elastic designs would be options.
* The upper image could/should be context dependent -- I used something a friend shot recently that I thought was very pretty.
I also wanted to say that I really like the work other folks have posted here a lot. Shift's design is particularly good. I know there's only a few days left in the contest, but I think that this thread (or another one) could be a useful place to discuss many of the design issues in a redesign of this site. If I am able, I'll try to respond to some of the work posted here with some constructive criticism, and I welcome the same for my own work.
Thanks,
David |
Hi David, I like it, especially the main banner, it kind of brings in fresh air (are you scandinavian? ) What I would change is the font for regular text. Serif fonts are good on images, or if used with a bigger size. I like the top bar with the search engine. I think you should convert your main image into a pattern (if you haven't already done it) so that you can use a variable width for your page.
Regarding code, the guidelines didn't mention whether using HTML, or XHTML, because it's only a graphic design contest. Gentoo people deal with the code, maybe they use templates, I guess, I don't know. The current web site uses HTML to render pages in browsers. Of course more and more people use XHTML, sometimes strict - I use transitional - but for a pretty big web site like Gentoo's, with language sites as well, and phpBB, it seem a really hard task to convert all the code into XHTML, and to validate it afterwards.
I wonder if the folks at Gentoo sleep at all...  |
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reisio
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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anything less than xhtml & css would be ridiculous
personally, if I submitted a design that was chosen and they told me they plan on using the same sort of html they're using now, I'd withdraw
I doubt that'll be the case, though, so :p |
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davideads
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:22 am Post subject: Re: A draft of my submission |
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| viperlin wrote: |
wow man u have some fscked up fonts
but nice design, proffessional but still a bit..... OH DEAR LORD LOOK AT THE FONTS! |
I'm not sure what you mean. Which fonts are making you crazy? The main fonts are meant to look like what the site might look like on a fairly standard display without antialiasing. Users would, of course, be able to scale them up or down as much as they want, and would probably want to turn anti-aliasing on as well, if it's available. But it isn't always available (i.e. Win95/98/ME).
David |
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davideads
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:36 am Post subject: Re: A draft of my submission |
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| calande wrote: |
Hi David, I like it, especially the main banner, it kind of brings in fresh air (are you scandinavian? ) What I would change is the font for regular text. Serif fonts are good on images, or if used with a bigger size. I like the top bar with the search engine. I think you should convert your main image into a pattern (if you haven't already done it) so that you can use a variable width for your page.
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I'm not sure what you mean. I'm using a sans-serif font for the regular text, because it works better on the screen for reading. It's just good ol' Verdana, set to an approximation of what I'd think the site would look like on a screen with "normal"/100%/whatever text size. I agree about the main image, but with the overflow:hidden property in CSS, you can cook up images that reveal themselves as you scale up. If you design it right, this can accomodate elastic designs very nicely.
| And calande also wrote: |
Regarding code, the guidelines didn't mention whether using HTML, or XHTML, because it's only a graphic design contest. Gentoo people deal with the code, maybe they use templates, I guess, I don't know. The current web site uses HTML to render pages in browsers. Of course more and more people use XHTML, sometimes strict - I use transitional - but for a pretty big web site like Gentoo's, with language sites as well, and phpBB, it seem a really hard task to convert all the code into XHTML, and to validate it afterwards.
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I see what you're saying, but I think there's not really such a thing as "only" graphic design on the web. If they accepted the design, that'd be groovy, but the design is made with tons of ideas in mind that can't easily be represented in the design, like the elasticity of the design, the overflow:hidden trick with the top image I mentioned, proper structure, etc. I can only assume that if the Gentoo team is serious about a redesign, XHTML/CSS and general standards compliance must be high on their list of priorities. As it is, the site discriminates against blind people and people on text browsers, which seems very out of line with Gentoo's overarching philosophy, and something I'd like to contribute to. All I'm saying is that what I'm trying to contribute really sort of has to (if the site's going to be successful for a variety of users) include more than just the look and feel. |
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davideads
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| reisio wrote: | | anything less than xhtml & css would be ridiculous |
Agreed. The free software movement needs to embrace these technologies which are humane and beneficial to many, many users. |
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shift
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Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:30 am Post subject: |
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Ok an update based on the feedback that I've been getting.
old:
| Quote: | | http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front.png |
new:
http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front1.png
http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front2.png
http://aaronshi.com/gentoo/gentoo-front3.png
Now the images are more "related."
1) The speedometers relate to performance.
2) The eye/fingerprint relate to uniqueness and every user (every system) being different.
3) The carabiner is a piece of hardware that connects things together. Mostly well-known application is for mountain climbers to connect two ropes together. It is extremely strong and often supports a climber's weight... This relates to the unity of Gentoo users and the strong support provided by the community.
In reality, the 3 different main graphics would rotate based on page load, each refresh randomly selects a different characteristic to load (easily done server side or client side). Rather than pushing a lot of Gentoo characteristics at once, it focuses on one characteristic each time. The message presented to the visitor is simple and clear.
Issues addressed in this update:
- the image of the women being non-related to Gentoo (I still stand by my original philosophy, but for the sake of moving on...)
- simplicity (To a certain degree, it would be backward if we made the new website a text intensive site that seemed like it was made in the early 90s. Gentoo is a cutting-edge and innovative distribution, it wouldn't really fit that core value if the site went to a Debian-ish site just like everyone else. Key here being Gentoo isn't just like another Linux distribution, rather it's a pioneer. Plus, Gentoo now have resources and help available to it that other distributions might not have to break away from the traditional text intensive design...did other distributions ever put up a contest asking for help from the community for a new site? Smart move by Gentoo.)
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Wallpapers:
Gentoo Space
Gentoo Infinity
Gentoo Matrix |
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