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tujz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking Glass reminds me off 3ddesktop and SphereXP, but with more features, like the sticky notes on the back of windows

spherexp was fun, i only used it in a lab cuz its for MS
and i havent gotten 3ddesktop to work 100% with windowmaker yet
it only uses the current desktop?

i look forward to checking out Looking Glass
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormy Eyes wrote:
Markrian wrote:
You should be ashamed of yourselves!


Why? Call me cynical, but...

Cynic!

So what if they changed Looking Glass's license to the GPL because they couldn't otherwise profit from it? They're hardly exploiting the OSS community by doing so.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The code is available here along with "getting started" guides

https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/

From all the criticism, I think a lot of people have not seen the videos to get the "point" of creating this. The intention is NOT to use it with current 2d applications. As their demonstrations show, their API allows developers a whole NEW way of thinking about desinging an application in 3D, as their CD player demo shows. If every UI developer thought about expanding into 3D, applications could potentientially never look like they do today again.

enjoy the code :D

PS Prize to whoever makes an ebuild for this, especially for AMD64 :wink: :wink:

Second PS :D Here's the Official GPL e-mail I got as a member of the Project Looking Glass e-mail list. The only thing that has been changed is the links which had embedded some type of Sun ID I have which I removed.



Quote:
Project Looking Glass Open Source
---------------------------------
Sun Microsystems is contributing Project Looking Glass, based on Java(tm) technology, to the open source community. Project Looking Glass is an exploration project to bring innovative 3D features to the desktop environment. The desktop interface will offer an intuitive, new 3D environment to interact with desktop applications featuring window transparency, rotation, zoom, multiple desktop workspaces and miniaturization.Project Looking Glass offers a platform to realize far richer and more entertaining user experience for existing and new applications in 2D or 3D. The technology enables developers to build highly visual 3D desktops and applications that will run on Linux systems such as Sun's Java Desktop System. The Solaris(tm) environment will be supported in near future.


What does this mean to you?
---------------------------
If you're a software developer, please go to https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/ and download this early version of the code and join the community in developing the 3D desktop.

Interested in using the Project Looking Glass? The project is in very early stages and a commercial version is not available yet. Please go to http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/index.html to keep up to date on our progress.


Why Open Source?
----------------
Project Looking Glass is in its infancy, and we'd like to explore lots of ideas and possibilities. We're releasing the Project Looking Glass code to the whole community to explore every aspect of the technology rather than restricting access to a privileged few. We believe this open development is an excellent model to pursue this exciting and vast opportunity. So, your involvement is eagerly anticipated. We believe new dimension of developer innovation by making Sun's cutting edge technology available at Sun's 3D Desktop Technology Open Source Project on java.net.

We have been working for several months on cleaning the software up, providing basic features and functionality key to 3D window management. A key focus was looking at the existing 2D desktop applications, ensuring minimal compatibility and performance problems. The next step is to look what else we can do to foster real world 3D interactivity. We decided to open source this at a very early stage to ensure that we got good feedback from the community.


What's in the Open Source Project?
----------------------------------
The following features are now available in the Project Looking Glass open source release:

3D Window Manager Platform - Java 3D based highly scalable 3D platform with client-server model support.

3D Window Manager and Application Development API - Java API to develop new 3D desktop applications and 3D desktop Window Manager features.

Native Application Integration Module - Allows developers to run conventional X11 applications in the 3D environment.

Sample 3D Window Manager - provides a simple sample implementation for testing and demonstration purposes

3D Environment Lite - Enables developers to run a simplified 3D environment as an application on a Java 3D enabled platform including Linux and Solaris environments. This serves as a development tool to test implementations.

This is all available at: https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/


What's the licensing model?
---------------------------
There are three license choices for developers interested in creating applications using Project Looking Glass.

For developers who are interested in reviewing, revising, and redistributing the source code as part of their own application, Project Looking Glass has been submitted as an Open Source project on java.net under the GNU Public License, or GPL.

For developers who are interested in developing an application on top of the existing Project Looking Glass platform without reviewing and/or altering the code base, there is a binary version of the current state of the project available for download under a traditional Binary Code License. This is also available on java.net.

Finally, for developers or organizations interested in other uses or revising the source code but wish to keep their implementation and related application proprietary, please contact Sun at lg3d_license@dev.java.net.


Project Looking Glass Community Meeting
---------------------------------------
Wednesday June 30, 2004
4:30pm to 6:00pm
The Argent Hotel, City Room
San Francisco, California, USA
http://www.argenthotel.com/location.htm

4:00-4:30 Registration
4:30-4:45 Welcome, Introductions, and 3D Desktop Project Demo
4:45-5:30 Technology Overview, Possible Sub Projects, How to Get Started
5:30-6:00 Q&A and Networking

Please join the conversation with the Project Looking Glass developers from Sun Microsystems. This meeting will be technically focused introducing developers to the project and letting them know how to get involved.

You can meet the team from "Project Looking Glass" and other developers while enjoying food and refreshments. There is open admission. You do not need a JavaOne Conference Pass to attend.

There will be no webcast available, but we will post the information available at the meeting on the website. We'll also have several presentations and Project Looking Glass at JavaOne, and we'll post as many as we can on the web.



You can see Hideya Kawahara on stage with Jonathan Schwartz and Scott McNealy of Sun Microsystems demonstrating the Project Looking Glass technology and announcing the open source project at http://java.sun.com/javaone/ (select View Webcast).

If you have any questions, please send them to: project-looking-glass@sun.com

Sun's Project Looking Glass Team


Last edited by pH on Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Direct link to the stable 0.5 build:

https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/files/documents/1834/5501/lg3d-0.5.tar.gz

Looks like it's not possible yet to get the source code. Anyone who got this thing working? :)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It look perty, but what about usability? I'll definatly give it a try though if I hear some positive feedback on it
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niek wrote:
Direct link to the stable 0.5 build:

https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/files/documents/1834/5501/lg3d-0.5.tar.gz

Looks like it's not possible yet to get the source code. Anyone who got this thing working? :)
I don't see anything at bugs.gentoo for it anyone submitting for it in here?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave it a shot, but it will not work under AMD64 due to the fact that source is not available yet and the binary builds are only for x86.

I'll try again when source becomes available ( also need source or AMD64 builds of the supporting libraries).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW is this a new wm that sun came up with, or is it old and just released GPL?

EDIT: is it just me or did OTW get really really big! I see a whole mess of users in here I never see in here
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

downpour wrote:
EDIT: is it just me or did OTW get really really big! I see a whole mess of users in here I never see in here


hehe I did a search for Looking Glass after I got the e-mail with a link to the GPL project on the off chance I could be the first to post a link, actually maybe this should be moved to "Desktop Environments" ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pH wrote:
downpour wrote:
EDIT: is it just me or did OTW get really really big! I see a whole mess of users in here I never see in here


hehe I did a search for Looking Glass after I got the e-mail with a link to the GPL project on the off chance I could be the first to post a link, actually maybe this should be moved to "Desktop Environments" ?


Yeah I figured it should be in desktop enviroments to, but it would be just marked as a dup :?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just downloaded it and tried to run it but got this:

Code:
Aurora root # /root/lg3d/bin/lg3d-session
~/lg3d/bin ~
~
[1] 8658
_XSERVTransSocketOpenCOTSServer: Unable to open socket for inet6
_XSERVTransOpen: transport open failed for inet6/Aurora:0
_XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: failed to open listener for inet6

This is a pre-release version of the X.org Foundation's X11.
Portions of this release are based on XFree86 4.4RC2 and selected
files from XFree86 4.4RC3. It is not supported in any way.
Bugs may be filed in the bugzilla at http://bugs.freedesktop.org/.
Select the "xorg" product for bugs you find in this release.
Before reporting bugs in pre-release versions please check the
latest version in the X.org Foundation "monolithic tree" CVS
repository hosted at http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/xorg/.902 (4.4.0 RC 2)
Release Date: 18 December 2003
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.6
Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.19-4GB-athlon i686 [ELF]
Current Operating System: Linux Aurora 2.6.7-gentoo-r6 #2 Sun Jun 27 00:20:36 CD                                                                                     
T 2004 i686
Build Date: 25 June 2004
Changelog Date: 29 February 2004
        Before reporting problems, check http://www.XFree86.Org/
        to make sure that you have the latest version.
Module Loader present
Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
        (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
        (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
(==) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 29 15:11:25 2004
(EE) Unable to locate/open config file
xf86AutoConfig: Primary PCI is 1:0:0
Running "/usr/X11R6/bin/getconfig -X 40399902 -I /etc/X11,/usr/X11R6/etc/X11,/us                                                                                     
r/X11R6/lib/modules,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/getconfig -v 0x1002 -d 0x4c59 -r 0x00 -s                                                                                     
0x1028 -b 0x00e3 -c 0x0300"
getconfig.pl: Version 1.0.
getconfig.pl: Xorg Version: 4.3.99.902.
getconfig.pl: 23 built-in rules.
getconfig.pl: rules file '/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/getconfig/xorg.cfg' has version 1.0                                                                                     
.
getconfig.pl: 1 rule added from file '/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/getconfig/xorg.cfg'.
getconfig.pl: Evaluated 24 rules with 0 errors.
getconfig.pl: Weight of result is 500.
New driver is "ati"
(==) Using default built-in configuration (53 lines)

Fatal server error:
Cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs        for all framebuffer                                                                                     
 devices


When reporting a problem related to a server crash, please
send the full server output, not just the last messages.


When reporting a problem related to a server crash, please
send the full server output, not just the last messages.
This can be found in the log file "/var/log/XFree86.0.log".
Please report problems to xorg@freedesktop.org.

~/lg3d/bin ~
~
[1] 8699

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stonent wrote:
I just downloaded it and tried to run it but got this:

Code:

Fatal server error:
Cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs        for all framebuffer                                                                                     
 devices



Doesn't run in framebuffer mode...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuomo Valkonen wrote:
Usability simply does not equal low learning curve


It doesn't matter if the windows can be rotated so that I can write notes on them. It won't help me be more productive. It's a waste of hardware resources, imo. However, it's a nice initiative.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fernandotcl wrote:
It's a waste of hardware resources, imo. .
Whats your GPU doing right now?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

headache wrote:
stonent wrote:
I just downloaded it and tried to run it but got this:

Code:

Fatal server error:
Cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs        for all framebuffer                                                                                     
 devices



Doesn't run in framebuffer mode...


Duh! I got that much. Why was it thinking that?

I got a little farther along by ln -s /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/XF86Config

Now it actually took me to the crosshatched X background with the [X] cursor in the middle and then froze. Ctrl-alt-bksp didn't work, the mouse wouldn't move. ctrl-alt-f1 f2 f3 all did nothing. I hit ctrl-alt-del and it appeared to shutdown without removing the X screen.

I've also located an XFree86 log file in my var directory which wasn't there before. Apparently this binary assumes you have XFree86. And from what I can tell includes 4.4 RC3 :?
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Last edited by stonent on Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you try to start X as normal and then run lg3d-dev rather than lg3d-session?

It might give you a better result since the X server included with Looking Glass (That is the one it tries to start when you run lg3d-session) was made for redHat.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stonent wrote:
headache wrote:
stonent wrote:
I just downloaded it and tried to run it but got this:

Code:

Fatal server error:
Cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs        for all framebuffer                                                                                     
 devices



Doesn't run in framebuffer mode...


Duh! I got that much. Why was it thinking that?

I got a little farther along by ln -s /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/XF86Config

Now it actually took me to the crosshatched X background with the [X] cursor in the middle and then froze. Ctrl-alt-bksp didn't work, the mouse wouldn't move. ctrl-alt-f1 f2 f3 all did nothing. I hit ctrl-alt-del and it appeared to shutdown without removing the X screen.

I've also located an XFree86 log file in my var directory which wasn't there before. Apparently this binary assumes you have XFree86. And from what I can tell includes 4.4 RC3 :?


DUH!
you could have told us that in the first place, we cant read your mind you know
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the perfect product, ok. It's just a technique for upcoming software and operating systems. I think we'll see five years later why 3D desktop is such a great idea. The "new things" used in Looking Glass may not be very useful, but believe it or not, there will be people who will invent dozens of useful ideas for 3D desktops. They may not be useful for everyone, but as a 3D graphician I look forward to see how software designers may be able to use the feature as a huge advantage in the future.

Remember that the first 2D desktops weren't really revolutionary, either. They were ugly and "used too much resources".
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I can read you know... :lol:

lg3d-dev does nothing but terminate

Code:
Aurora bin # ./lg3d-dev
~/lg3d/bin ~/lg3d/bin
~/lg3d/bin
[1] 7976
Aurora bin #


Code:
Aurora bin # ./setup
./setup: line 3: syntax error near unexpected token `set'
./setup: line 3: `if (${scriptdir} == ${tmp}) set scriptdir = .'
Aurora bin #


Code:
Aurora tmp # more /tmp/lgserver.log
LGCONFIG file:///root/lg3d/bin/../etc/lg3d/lgconfig_1p_nox.xml
JAVA_HOME /opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.1
LGX11HOME /root/lg3d/bin/../ext/lg3d-x11
LGCORESRC /root/lg3d/bin/../src
X Server Version
release-0-5
/opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.1/bin /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/local/bin /opt/bin /usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/3.4 /opt/intel/compiler80/bin /opt/Acrobat5 /opt/st
uffit/bin /usr/X11R6/bin /opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.1/bin /opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.1/jre/bin /usr/qt/3/bin /usr/kde/3.2/sbin /usr/kde/3.2/bin /usr/kde/3.1/sbin /usr/kde/3.
1/bin
/root/lg3d/bin/../lib/i386:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking Glass, as some said before me, isn't meant to be used with 2D apps such as... the current software avaliable. It's meant to be a brand new interface to computers. Think about what Mozilla would look like if the entire website was multi-layered and you could select which site you wanted out of the entire tree, or what eyecandy effects you could apply to every-day tasks to make it look nicer. Looking Glass is pretty much an SDK, as is Qt to KDE, and GTK to GNOME. Okay, not -exactly- the same, but the concept is still there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EricC wrote:
fernandotcl wrote:
It's a waste of hardware resources, imo. .
Whats your GPU doing right now?


So, hurry:

Code:
cat /etc/fstab > /dev/dsp


As your sound card cannot be idle! :lol:

Ok, just kidding. The problem is that you'd need a nice accelerated video card, and there are people who can't afford one. It's a waste of time, too. It takes some time to rotate Mozilla three times around the y axis and two around the x axis before someone can use it... :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HydroSan wrote:
Looking Glass, as some said before me, isn't meant to be used with 2D apps such as... the current software avaliable. It's meant to be a brand new interface to computers. Think about what Mozilla would look like if the entire website was multi-layered and you could select which site you wanted out of the entire tree, or what eyecandy effects you could apply to every-day tasks to make it look nicer. Looking Glass is pretty much an SDK, as is Qt to KDE, and GTK to GNOME. Okay, not -exactly- the same, but the concept is still there.


This looks like virtual reality. It seems Sun tried to make it look like the file manager used in an "Unix" system in Jurassic Park. However, nowadays we already have 3d file managers, and we keep using the good and old terminal or a 2d file manager to move files around. That shows that those things seem to be only eye-candy.

However, as I posted before, I think it's a nice initiative, because there can be more useful projects based on this idea.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fernandotcl wrote:
HydroSan wrote:
Looking Glass, as some said before me, isn't meant to be used with 2D apps such as... the current software avaliable. It's meant to be a brand new interface to computers. Think about what Mozilla would look like if the entire website was multi-layered and you could select which site you wanted out of the entire tree, or what eyecandy effects you could apply to every-day tasks to make it look nicer. Looking Glass is pretty much an SDK, as is Qt to KDE, and GTK to GNOME. Okay, not -exactly- the same, but the concept is still there.


This looks like virtual reality. It seems Sun tried to make it look like the file manager used in an "Unix" system in Jurassic Park. However, nowadays we already have 3d file managers, and we keep using the good and old terminal or a 2d file manager to move files around. That shows that those things seem to be only eye-candy.

However, as I posted before, I think it's a nice initiative, because there can be more useful projects based on this idea.


the jurassic park one really existed, it was used in the movie, not created for it....
i forget it's true name though
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fernandotcl wrote:

Ok, just kidding. The problem is that you'd need a nice accelerated video card, and there are people who can't afford one. It's a waste of time, too. It takes some time to rotate Mozilla three times around the y axis and two around the x axis before someone can use it... :wink:


Sure, but i don't care, I have more than enough CPU and GPU power. I can also wait a few seconds if necessary. I'm not one of those who needs to have something take place before they even click on a link :-D
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

headache wrote:
Sure, but i don't care, I have more than enough CPU and GPU power. I can also wait a few seconds if necessary. I'm not one of those who needs to have something take place before they even click on a link :-D


Yeah, I can understand your point. It's that I prefer productive interfaces to eye-candy ones (although my WMI desktop looks awesome :D).
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