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b2000
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:28 am Post subject: LaTeX is huge... but I love it anyway |
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Maybe this is pointless complaining (considering I have an 80 Gb hd), but the teTeX distro of LaTeX is huge. Is there some alternative, or some compile configuration to reduce it. I mean it takes up 200 Mb + on my machine!!! I'm somewhat of a minimalist, despite my great hardware specs (I just believe in being efficient). For comparaison I installed lout. It only takes up 7 Mb. I mean, what's in teTeX that makes it so huge? It must have been smaller in the 80s when it was first developped. Lout is okay... but it's not the same.
On a somewhat related note, does anyone know a good way to view latex output from the console. I tried fbgs, to view pdfs i converted, but it doesn't work.
This is the output:
| Code: | ### rendering pages, please wait ... ###
ESP Ghostscript 7.07 (2003-07-12)
Copyright 2003 artofcode LLC and Easy Software Products, all rights reserved.
This software comes with NO WARRANTY: see the file PUBLIC for details.
Processing pages 1 through 9.
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4
Page 5
Page 6
Page 7
Page 8
Page 9
Oops: ghostscript wrote no pages? |
I'm using radeonfb (could that be the problem?)
After that long rant and complaining, latex is still the best. I'll keep all 200 Mb of it if necessary... I'd just rather not.  |
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blatch
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Joined: 15 Oct 2002
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Location: bloomington, in
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Exactly what are you doing that requires LaTeX? Writing a novel, AND typsetting it?
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b2000
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Well, I first got introduced to it since I am currently studying physics and math, and I heard it was the way to go. Tried it, loved it. I don't use it for much heavy-duty stuff... yet. I use it now as a replacement/improvement on any office suite I've ever used. I've been searching the forum a bit now, and I see that you can hand pick what parts u want off the ctan site, but that sounds like a lot of work... Maybe I'll try it anyway.
Thanx in advance for any ideas! |
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aethyr
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:14 am Post subject: |
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I don't know if you'll be able to do much better without installing it by yourself.
Out of the following:
http://www.tug.org/interest.html#free
it seems only teTex is available on Gentoo.
I don't quite understand what your aversion is to installing a TeX distribution such as teTeX is though. You realize that they're trying to make you're life simpler so you don't have to go trudging off through CTAN everytime you need a new style/package (of which there are MANY I find myself frequently using). It's not as if portage will lose track of it. It will all go away (or should all go away, unless portage is broken) with an "emerge clean".
blatch: I dunno what you mean by that, but I am required to use LaTeX for some of my classes, and many scientific publications require use of LaTeX as well. |
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Rastagromit
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Joined: 06 Mar 2003
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Location: Longview, Texas
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:46 am Post subject: |
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hehe. we'd need an entire portage system for LaTeX.
In all honestly, it's just easier to install the tetex package.
No idea on the console output question. are you looking to see the dvi file that latex generates?
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aethyr
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nrl
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Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| blatch wrote: | | Exactly what are you doing that requires LaTeX? Writing a novel, AND typsetting it? |
I use LaTeX from small documents all the time! Especially for files that I need to put lots of formulae but I also use it for my CV and even for typing letters. Everything is just so fast when you don't need to spend ages messing about with laying things out like you do with a "WYSIWYG" word processor  . |
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Evangelion
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:53 am Post subject: |
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I have been planning to to try out LaTex at some point. But how do you use it really? I know I know... "You just write, LaTex puts all the text, headers in right place for you". But how does it know where to put them? I mean, in my thesis for example, the headers had to be certain type, the font had to be certain type and size, the page-numbers had to be of certain type, the margins around the text had to be certain type etc. etc. Where do I tell it how they should be? Obviously those standards are different from one place to another, how do I tell it how the text/headers/etc. should be?
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nrl
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Evangelion wrote: | | Where do I tell it how they should be? Obviously those standards are different from one place to another, how do I tell it how the text/headers/etc. should be? |
Well if you are looking to specify the header and footer style you will need the fancyhdr package - I'm sure Google will reveal all its secrets for you . |
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roo_
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Joined: 07 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: |
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I found that using Lyx (WYSIWYG tex editor) was a great introduction to me. its a mature, stable project and i've run into very few problems using it. Its got a great interface for changing the layout/style of your document, as well as much more.
Its in portage 
PS: Some people have had problems emerging Lyx if you have no swap, so make sure it's enabled.
HTH. |
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Jay Belanger
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Joined: 01 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: LaTeX is huge... but I love it anyway |
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| b2000 wrote: | | On a somewhat related note, does anyone know a good way to view latex output from the console. |
Using svgalib, there's
tmview (which may be the same thing as dvisvga). I haven't used it for a while, but it was pretty nice.
Jay |
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Birnenpfluecker
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| just type xdvi *.dvi, shopuld do the job, comes with tetex I think |
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b2000
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, thanx for all the replies...
Let me just clarify a few things about my two questions.
1. Since I'm seeing that theres no "easy" way to customize/shrink the latex install, is anyone thinking of making one? I'm not gonna get into a list of all the apps i would customize if I had the time/programming skills... Latex is awesome, no doubt, but it comes at a hefty price (the install is larger than even Word I think... and compared to lout... has anyone actually tried lout...)
2. I know about tmview, but there is no ebuild, and the last time I tried to compile it by hand, it failed miserably (I would compile it w/ framebuffer support rather than svga tho). I surely know about xdvi... I mean I'm not totally noob to latex. But I am looking for an alternative that works from the CONSOLE (framebuffer obviously okay, svga not so much). Has anyone else had a similar problem to the above trying fbgs? I you know any better console pdf/ps/dvi (I'm not very picky) viewers, please tell me.
Thanks again. |
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AgenT
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stgreek
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Location: Guildford, UK
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have been planning to to try out LaTex at some point. But how do you use it really? I know I know... "You just write, LaTex puts all the text, headers in right place for you". But how does it know where to put them? I mean, in my thesis for example, the headers had to be certain type, the font had to be certain type and size, the page-numbers had to be of certain type, the margins around the text had to be certain type etc. etc. Where do I tell it how they should be? Obviously those standards are different from one place to another, how do I tell it how the text/headers/etc. should be? |
You can setup and change anything "on the fly". You can set all your headers to be of one type, and just before the one you want you can change it and then back. The same thing for all text formatting and typesetting. I can't praise LateX enough, it is simply too good to compare to anything else. Especially if your text is multi-column, doesn't have too many pictures (photos, not figures) and has the slightest bit of math in it (ie most technical/scientific reports) LateX is the only way to go.
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Evangelion
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Joined: 31 May 2002
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| stgreek wrote: | | You can setup and change anything "on the fly". You can set all your headers to be of one type, and just before the one you want you can change it and then back. The same thing for all text formatting and typesetting. I can't praise LateX enough, it is simply too good to compare to anything else. Especially if your text is multi-column, doesn't have too many pictures (photos, not figures) and has the slightest bit of math in it (ie most technical/scientific reports) LateX is the only way to go. |
I remember that I did try it some time ago. I wanted to move a header. Now, in the likes of Word for example, I could do that with TAB. But it didn't work in LaTex. Now, obviously there is a way to do it, but considering that WYSIWYG word-processors are the thing I have used for a long time, migrating to LaTex is going to be difficult.
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richk449
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Evangelion wrote: | | I have been planning to to try out LaTex at some point. But how do you use it really? I know I know... "You just write, LaTex puts all the text, headers in right place for you". But how does it know where to put them? I mean, in my thesis for example, the headers had to be certain type, the font had to be certain type and size, the page-numbers had to be of certain type, the margins around the text had to be certain type etc. etc. Where do I tell it how they should be? Obviously those standards are different from one place to another, how do I tell it how the text/headers/etc. should be? |
The general idea of latex is that your work is divided into two parts: the content, and the style. You specify the contents in a .tex file, and the style in a .sty file. Most schools (mine included) have a style file (something.sty) for a thesis that you simply download and use. This file will already have all the formatting issue specified, so you don't have to worry about them. You simply write the contents in a .tex file, and specify the .sty file that you want to use for formatting.
As for the "how does it know where to put stuff ..." question: you specify some stuff in the .tex file. For instance, you specify where chapter and section breaks go, and it handles the rest.
Of course, it is a little more complicated than this, but I am sure reading the tutorials will make it fairly clear. |
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Evangelion wrote: | | I have been planning to to try out LaTex at some point. But how do you use it really? I know I know... "You just write, LaTex puts all the text, headers in right place for you". But how does it know where to put them? I mean, in my thesis for example, the headers had to be certain type, the font had to be certain type and size, the page-numbers had to be of certain type, the margins around the text had to be certain type etc. etc. Where do I tell it how they should be? Obviously those standards are different from one place to another, how do I tell it how the text/headers/etc. should be? |
Just chipping in with my $.02...
A little more than two years ago I decided to write my dissertation using LaTeX as the school had style files and I had a previous very bad experience dealing with the MS Office equation editor.
To learn LaTeX I started by reading the "Not So Short Introduction" and experimenting. You can download the introduction here:
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/english/lshort.pdf
I then read almost all of Lamport's "LaTeX: A Document Preparation System" (checked it out of the library) and bought a copy of the LaTeX Companion as a reference guide.
I did the actual writing using emacs with the LaTeX and BibTeX extensions. The two trickiest areas were making tables and inserting figures. However, once I figured that out using the companion, it was a snap.
All-in-all it was a great experience. The end result was simply gorgeous and my dissertation was a pdf file that was formatted correctly, etc.
At my current work, we all use microsoft products and, well, let's just say I really see the limitations of the WYSIWYG approach. Also, BibTeX is far better than Procite for windows as well.
Best,
Alex |
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Evangelion
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for your help . I'll be sure to give LaTex a shot
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twstd3bc
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: dvi console reader |
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| More than a decade ago, I used dvi2tty to read dvi files on a terminal. It probably still exists, but if you want something more up to date I bet a Google search on dvi2tty would give you something useful. |
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slartibartfasz
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Rastagromit wrote: | | hehe. we'd need an entire portage system for LaTeX. |
There is actually portage system for LaTeX and its the only thing i really miss from windows. The system comes with a TeX distribution called 'miktex' and is available from ctan. Its really nice - it presents you with a list of available packets from ctan - you select one - it gets installed. I'd love to see something like this for tetex.
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stgreek
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Location: Guildford, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| slartibartfasz wrote: | | Rastagromit wrote: | | hehe. we'd need an entire portage system for LaTeX. |
There is actually portage system for LaTeX and its the only thing i really miss from windows. The system comes with a TeX distribution called 'miktex' and is available from ctan. Its really nice - it presents you with a list of available packets from ctan - you select one - it gets installed. I'd love to see something like this for tetex. |
I believe tetex has the same thing, just burn a cd from ctan and try to install it. You can change language and package selections, and add all weird packages the cd/dvd has.
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slartibartfasz
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| stgreek wrote: | | I believe tetex has the same thing, just burn a cd from ctan and try to install it. You can change language and package selections, and add all weird packages the cd/dvd has. |
I never stumbled upon this - do you know if it works over the net?
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evoweiss
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: dvi console reader |
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| twstd3bc wrote: | | More than a decade ago, I used dvi2tty to read dvi files on a terminal. It probably still exists, but if you want something more up to date I bet a Google search on dvi2tty would give you something useful. |
Ah, that reminds me of what I forgot to mention earlier. To view dvi files you can use either xdvi or kdvi (I imagine there's a gnome version if you're so inclined). The nice thing about these programs is that you can your file up while writting and after you run latex on your .tex file they will automatically update what you see on the screen. This makes editing something or fine-tuning stuff WAY easier (I believe that emacs can integrate this stuff, but I didn't bother trying to figure it out).
Additionally, I don't know whether this is still a problem, but it used to be the case that the pdf file generated from the ps would look blocky and ugly when viewed via adobe acrobat reader (it would print out just fine though). If you have that problem, you simply run dvips with the following flags: -Pcmz -Pamz -Ppdf.
To make life easier on myself, I included this alias in my .bashrc file:
alias dvipsadobe='dvips -Pcmz -Pamz -Ppdf'
Happy LaTeXing!
Alex |
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Bowyakka
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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Location: London
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Evangelion wrote: | | Thank you all for your help . I'll be sure to give LaTex a shot |
Its worth trying, my Phd friend showed me latex just after I had done my final year project report in word. It seemed to easy in latex I felt like killing him since he could have shown me latex a month before .....
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