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Frodg
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Filter for OTW ? Reply with quote

I have noticed the hugely increased number of purile OTW threads recently - I don't have any wish to censor anyone...
But I would love to be able to filter out OTW completely when I view the forum posts, search for posts, etc..
Is this possible and if not, could it be done?

(I am not here for general discussion or to build up to veteran status in three days with useless (to my view) posts)
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Bionut
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Frodg on this one...

OTW is all fine and good but most of the time I couldn't give much of a rats about what gets posted there and would prefer to search through the forums for post in the other forums.

OTW is a good thing to have around (especially when installing or configuring Gentoo and I need to vent or just distract myself -- we've all had moments of 'if i see another config file I'll throttle someone!') but I for one would like to be able to filter it out when (for example) looking for unanswered posts that I could help out on.

Good call Frodg
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nbensa
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked for that feature a long time ago... No one aswered.
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Flammie
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been a few similar requests as far as I remember, the obvious answer is always somewhat along the lines "phpBB does not have such a feature but if someone is offering a patch..." or so.

Actually I see the search has ability to select a category, it is not multiselectable but for most the first option would be sufficient as it filters out only the metadiscussion and international boards.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been asked on several occaisions. Unfortunately, the changes would need to be made upstream at www.phpbb.com.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
It has been asked on several occaisions. Unfortunately, the changes would need to be made upstream at www.phpbb.com.


Is the code that ugly? I would think that someone adminning a busy PHPbb install would be able to make the change...now, I'll admit that I couldn't make the change, but I don't work with PHP. :D
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rasmussen
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm definitely with Frodg on this one too.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main problem with mods to phpBB is that they need to be maintained between version changes, as these often include changes to the internal workings of phpBB. You've also got to make sure that there's no bugs in your mods, which can be quite difficult to test for every single possibility.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomk wrote:
The main problem with mods to phpBB is that they need to be maintained between version changes, as these often include changes to the internal workings of phpBB. You've also got to make sure that there's no bugs in your mods, which can be quite difficult to test for every single possibility.
Hmm, well all that is required for the requested feature is an alternative searchpage. To realise that, copy the original and change the sql statement for the search by appending something like "AND forum_id <> otw-forum-id-number" to the where clause. That's about it. I could be wrong, not having hacked phpBB for some time now. To do it a bit nicer would be to add a multi-select box to select the forums to exclude from the search and add "AND forum_id NOT IN (<comma-seperated-list-of-excluded-forums>)"
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Filter for OTW ? Reply with quote

Frodg wrote:
I have noticed the hugely increased number of purile OTW threads recently - I don't have any wish to censor anyone...
But I would love to be able to filter out OTW completely when I view the forum posts, search for posts, etc..
Is this possible and if not, could it be done?

(I am not here for general discussion or to build up to veteran status in three days with useless (to my view) posts)


Filters do not work and some threads that have good or poignant discussion could be lost because the filter views only based on keywords....

However, if these forums moves to Slash for the forums, you can filter based on users ratings...Probably a better solution, but it is very hectic to manage such a system.

What you could do is use bash utilities like WGET, AWK, and GREP to filter the html in OTW to your own script and run it from the command line. The output would be directed to a html page which you could open with mozilla.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the feature is implemented in phpBB, we will implement it here. If it isn't, we won't.

--kurt
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regeya
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
If the feature is implemented in phpBB, we will implement it here. If it isn't, we won't.

--kurt


Not to be a troublemaker, just interested in seeing such a thing: is nixnut's suggestion wrong, and does the phpBB project refuse outside patches?

I'm trying to understand the user-hostile attitude to modification requests, that's all, not questioning your judgement on such matters. If you're not wanting to maintain a branch of phpBB, that's cool; that would be a mess.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regeya wrote:
Not to be a troublemaker, just interested in seeing such a thing: is nixnut's suggestion wrong, and does the phpBB project refuse outside patches?


You can submit patches, MODS as they're called, to phpBB but it takes a long time for them to be officially validated and even longer to get into the base code. More info on the phpBB MOD FAQ.

The php search code is 1407 lines long and has 16 sql select queries, so it's a bit more complicated than just adding one line. As I said before the biggest problem is maintaining MODS between upgrades to phpBB.
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klieber
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regeya wrote:
I'm trying to understand the user-hostile attitude to modification requests, that's all, not questioning your judgement on such matters. If you're not wanting to maintain a branch of phpBB, that's cool; that would be a mess.

There's no user-hostileness about it. We're hostile about trying to maintain a separate branch of phpBB. Look around on google and you will see at least a half-dozen security vulnerabilities in the 2.0.x branch of phpBB. Each time a new one comes out, we obviously have to patch the code here. The more the code differs from the main phpBB 2.0.x branch, the more difficult our job becomes.

Remember that the site admins do all this in their spare time. Thus, we avoid making more work for ourselves wherever possible.

--kurt
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomk wrote:
The php search code is 1407 lines long and has 16 sql select queries, so it's a bit more complicated than just adding one line.
Actually, if it's just OTW you want to exclude it's just that simple. There's a variable $ignore_forum_sql already. You just need to do add the forum_id of OTW to it:
$ignore_forum_sql .= $ignore_forum_sql . ', 10'

The more elaborate solution where you can select the forums to exclude needs a multiselect option box and a variable to store the excluded id's. You then give the new variable (e.g. $exclude_forums) the same treatment as $is_auth_ary on lines 387-394, thus adding the forum id's to $ignore_forum_sql.

But I agree with the policy of not patching, but using only "official" sources.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've obviously been digging around the phpBB code longer than I have, I didn't spot that one.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomk wrote:
You've obviously been digging around the phpBB code longer than I have, I didn't spot that one.
I doubt that. I hadn't looked at it since the 2.0 betas. And I hadn't been digging around in search.php then either. Actually I looked for the relevant sql statement and well, that's where it showed up.
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don quixada
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:20 am    Post subject: better search results Reply with quote

I'm sick of searching for practically anything and getting one or both of these threads in the top of the results:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-188155.html

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-313315.html

Also, I don't care a hoot about anything posted in OTW and Gentoo Chat (they are hardly ever useful). So why do these forums comprise most of the search results?

The same goes for results in foreign languages. I don't speak Russian, Polish, French, Italian, German, Chinese and many other languages. Results in these languages (and others) are no help to me.

Why do I have to wade through all these completely useless (to me) posts? It's almost like wading though spam.

My proposal (and it's probably been thought of before) is that results are only presented in English unless the user chooses other languages to search in (possibly indicated by the user's choice of language in his/her prefs).

Also, please remove Gentoo Chat and especially OTW from the quick search (if the user wants to search in these forums maybe s/he can `opt-in' to search these forums also). Even the regular search doesn't allow one to search in multiple forums-- so if one is stuck with a problems s/he has to do multiple searches in applicable forums in order to avoid OTW et al.

The simplest solution to these problems that I can think of is to allow the user to pick the forums s/he wants quick search to parse in his/her prefs. I have no idea about implementation of this and whether it's a Gentoo-forums thing or a phpBB thing. But I thought I'd just pass my suggestions along to help make the world a better place.

I suppose this post could belong here; feel free to do with it what you like. I hope this post helps in some small way.

dq
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A large part of my searching yields foreign languages. I have seen a number of posts about this and the answer is almost always to learn better search techniques. It seems easier to add a feature for the 80,000+ users than to convince all of them to learn to search better. I have been wishing for such a feature for some time. To whom it may concern, please give this some serious consideration.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mkzelda wrote:
A large part of my searching yields foreign languages. I have seen a number of posts about this and the answer is almost always to learn better search techniques. It seems easier to add a feature for the 80,000+ users than to convince all of them to learn to search better. I have been wishing for such a feature for some time. To whom it may concern, please give this some serious consideration.

That's a good thing! I learned a little portug, german and japanesse in these forums. :D
No, seriously, I agree with you, would be a interenting feature to implement in this web. I vote for it! :wink:
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nosecretnow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree as well. I have grown sick and tired of people on here telling me "have you searched the forums yet?" and "have you Googled it?"

Yes and bloody hell YES. I love Gentoo and was a very strong advocate of the community here, until I began searching for things on the forums and finding 80% OTW jib-jab that insults what little intelligence I have and confounds my ability to further my knowledge of Gentoo by forcing me to sift through nonsense and irrelevancy.

As a result I now rely on the Gentoo Forums absolutely ZERO for relevant and useful information. I'm only here to offer assistance to others when I can. Otherwise I either directly discuss what is on my mind on IRC or else simply Google, Google, Google until I'm all Googled out.

At least Google doesn't respond to my questions with "Have you tried Googling it?"
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Frodg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thes issues have been raised before....

Searching and not including OTW etc I raised months back but it appears the software can't do it..... (if I remember the answer properly)
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nosecretnow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frodg wrote:
Thes issues have been raised before....

Searching and not including OTW etc I raised months back but it appears the software can't do it..... (if I remember the answer properly)


I see no reason why there cannot be a forums.gentoo.org and an otw.gentoo.org if otw is that dang important.

Relevancy should be the primary focus of Gentoo Forums, not what people think of our president/dictator or how many times a guy fantasizes about sleeping with two women at the same time.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So then is this a redundant post? The original(s) might have shown up if not for the foreign languages, OTW, etc...?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mkzelda wrote:
So then is this a redundant post? The original(s) might have shown up if not for the foreign languages, OTW, etc...?


Redundancy is fine, but one has to incorporate collation.

Google displays information based on relevancy and then hides what it deems "repetitive" information. You can show all by clicking "show omitted results" at the end of the search page(s).

I've Administered phpBB forums for several years and know this stuff is feasible, possible, and attainable. I fear that many people are turned off by Gentoo Forums because their searches are so utterly meaningless.

Also, relevancy should be based on a timeline as well. For example, when I perform a search for something like "Gentoo 2005.0" I do not want to read about some oddball thread discussing to-do lists from a year ago. I want the FIRST results to be the most recent postings on the topic, with similar posts grouped as a single target entry rather than pages and pages of "hits" all related to the same 37 page single thread.

Ok, I'm ranting and I apologize. This whole topic IS redundant and futile. I guess I'm just reflecting outwardly the passion FOR Gentoo I have and my intense dismay over how poorly it is being represented to the world at large through a forum format that was never intended for the breadth that Gentoo has become.
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