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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quiconque wrote:
nixnut wrote:
The point is not to have respect for fictional characters, but for the feeling of those who believe in them. Surely you can make your point without resorting to hurting those feelings?


I want their feelings to be hurt. That way, they may think and speak up against people who use their religions to tell sufferors of HIV/AIDS and their friends and families that they deserve it. Maybe they'll see that we, who have had close friends be ravaged by this desease and have buried far too many of them, have the same feelings to be hurt by such vile rhetoric.

Let me put it this way. You say you want to hurt my feelings. Why? What have I said to you that gives you that motive.

Edit:Ok, I read it now. Well, I think you are making a serious mistake if you believe that insulting people will make them want to convert other peoples believes to your views.


Last edited by nixnut on Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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quiconque
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
I dont see what is wrpng shameful about accepting life as it comes, and believing that we just do deserve everything that happens to us? It is not lack of humanity, whenever i see suffering im sadened, whenever i see this seeming "injustice" I call for justice, whenever a friend or person is in trouble i pray for them, whenever someone asks for help, I help them, i always give money in church to those who need it, and I refuse anyone trying to pay me for my help, for they get it for free. Let me ask you: how many people have you helped and wanted nothing in return, just to feel happy that you are of a use to someone who needs it?


If you call acting like this "helping people" or having "compassion with them", then I dread to hear what you say to them to be mean.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
nrl wrote:
Useful Idiot wrote:
Deathwing00 wrote:
In summary, don't f*ck so much, or at least, do not change of couple often, so you won't get HIV or other illnesses.


Did you happen to know that in Africa major part of women who have HIV got it from their husbands. Now, are you saying that these people, many of wich have been nothing but faitful to their partners, deserved it. And what about the babies these infected women then give birth to. Worst thing that they have ever done was to penetrate to the world through their mother's vagina causing unimaginable pain, but haven't we all. Probably even this Jesus person you all keep talking about.

They were probably dirty poofs in a past life and hence had it coming!

Or partakers of the crusades.

But you cannot know that, so you're jumping to conclusions. Besides you are saying the deserve it. That means you assign responsibility to them. And then you say that the responsibility lies in fact with some earlier incarnation of the soul. If so, then they cannot be responsible. Next when is somebody responsible? Do you discount the influence of upbringing;raising by parents and of culture? If you accept determinism then you must accept that responsibilty does not exist. Everything that happens must happen because of what happened before.

It is responsibility of the soul to use every incarnation for spiritual growth, even if the required growth needs to be as quadraplegic on wheel chair. If soul uses the material body to gratify self by egoism, selfishness, self-indulgence or even idol worship, then karma will be heavy. We, today, are making our next life. You are responsible for what will your next life be !
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
Let me put it this way. You say you want to hurt my feelings. Why? What have I said to you that gives you that motive.


I want to hurt your feelings if you're one of those who say nothing when people like petrjanda use your religion in this maner, or if you're somebody like petrjanda. If you are not one of those, then you should be able to see my intentions and take them for what they are.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
It is responsibility of the soul to use every incarnation for spiritual growth, even if the required growth needs to be as quadraplegic on wheel chair. If soul uses the material body to gratify self by egoism, selfishness, self-indulgence or even idol worship, then karma will be heavy. We, today, are making our next life. You are responsible for what will your next life be !

If the soul cannot be aware of its earlier incarnations than it cannot be responsible. If the soul can be, but the person it is inhabiting cannot access the soul, the person cannot be responsible. Therefore in both cases the person should not suffer because of what may have happened earlier. And you sidestepped the question of when some soul/person can be said to be responsible.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quiconque wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
I dont see what is wrpng shameful about accepting life as it comes, and believing that we just do deserve everything that happens to us? It is not lack of humanity, whenever i see suffering im sadened, whenever i see this seeming "injustice" I call for justice, whenever a friend or person is in trouble i pray for them, whenever someone asks for help, I help them, i always give money in church to those who need it, and I refuse anyone trying to pay me for my help, for they get it for free. Let me ask you: how many people have you helped and wanted nothing in return, just to feel happy that you are of a use to someone who needs it?


If you call acting like this "helping people" or having "compassion with them", then I dread to hear what you say to them to be mean.

They must take responsibility for them selves, and sadly far most people arent able to do so: they come about blaming and hating others, and they expect love and peace in return.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quiconque wrote:
I want to hurt your feelings if you're one of those who say nothing when people like petrjanda use your religion in this maner, or if you're somebody like petrjanda. If you are not one of those, then you should be able to see my intentions and take them for what they are.

But you're pre-emptively insulting everybody with certain believes. You are not waiting to see what somebody actually does. And i see your intentions all to clear and I don't like them a bit. You are geared to conflict, not understanding or friendly discourse. I was hoping you would be able to see that there are other ways of making a point than blindly insulting large groups of people, but I'm giving up. You obviously feel it you duty to humankind to troll. You are not that different from fanatics of the religious kind.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
But you're pre-emptively insulting everybody with certain believes. You are not waiting to see what somebody actually does. And i see your intentions all to clear and I don't like them a bit. You are geared to conflict, not understanding or friendly discourse. I was hoping you would be able to see that there are other ways of making a point than blindly insulting large groups of people, but I'm giving up. You obviously feel it you duty to humankind to troll. You are not that different from fanatics of the religious kind.


Other than that I am justified in my indignation. The feelings of religious people be damned, I will attack the religion used to attack those close to me.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
They must take responsibility for them selves, and sadly far most people arent able to do so: they come about blaming and hating others, and they expect love and peace in return.


Which is, of course, so much different from what you're doing...

/sarcasm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quiconque wrote:
The feelings of religious people be damned, I will attack the religion used to attack those close to me.

...and hence miss the real problem and get nowhere?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
It is responsibility of the soul to use every incarnation for spiritual growth, even if the required growth needs to be as quadraplegic on wheel chair. If soul uses the material body to gratify self by egoism, selfishness, self-indulgence or even idol worship, then karma will be heavy. We, today, are making our next life. You are responsible for what will your next life be !

If the soul cannot be aware of its earlier incarnations than it cannot be responsible. If the soul can be, but the person it is inhabiting cannot access the soul, the person cannot be responsible. Therefore in both cases the person should not suffer because of what may have happened earlier. And you sidestepped the question of when some soul/person can be said to be responsible.

When soul joins physical body, the soul's consciousness becomes the body's subconsciousness, and new consciousness(of the body) is created by birth? See? thats why you cant remember your past lives. Subconsciousness can be accessed via meditation, or even some drugs, but those are unhealthy. Understand it as you are a soul in first place independent on the actual body, and you _use_ the body. The body is not aware of the soul, but soul is aware of the body. But its the subconsciousness that "drives" the body anf the actions, but your consciousness is not aware of it. Has it ever happened to you that you "cought your self doing something" but you cant remember what it was, untill you stop and think what you were actually doing? Like you are looking for a "toy", and then someone comes into the room and talks to you, when the person leaves you go on about "what was i doing??" and after a couple of seconds you find out you were looking for a toy.


Last edited by petrjanda on Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nrl wrote:
...and hence miss the real problem and get nowhere?


I see religion as one of the real problems, but that's a completely different thread...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is more people alive now than ever before. Where does all these souls come from? If all of them have "lived" before, the math doesn't add up, but then again math and science have never been a hinder to rambling religious before so why should it be that now?

Erik
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
Has it ever happened to you that you "cought your self doing something" but you cant remember what it was, untill you stop and think what you were actually doing? Like you are looking for a "toy", and then someone comes into the room and talks to you, when the person leaves you go on about "what was i doing??" and after a couple of seconds you find out you were looking for a toy.

WOW! The first conclusive evidence for the existence of a soul! Perhaps you should contact a scientific journal and maybe the newspapers? In fact perhaps you could be up for the Nobel Prize!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quiconque wrote:
nrl wrote:
...and hence miss the real problem and get nowhere?


I see religion as one of the real problems, but that's a completely different thread...

Human intolerance can and would exist without religion. Religion is merely used (by some) for self justification.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
nixnut wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
It is responsibility of the soul to use every incarnation for spiritual growth, even if the required growth needs to be as quadraplegic on wheel chair. If soul uses the material body to gratify self by egoism, selfishness, self-indulgence or even idol worship, then karma will be heavy. We, today, are making our next life. You are responsible for what will your next life be !

If the soul cannot be aware of its earlier incarnations than it cannot be responsible. If the soul can be, but the person it is inhabiting cannot access the soul, the person cannot be responsible. Therefore in both cases the person should not suffer because of what may have happened earlier. And you sidestepped the question of when some soul/person can be said to be responsible.

When soul joins physical body, the soul's consciousness becomes the body's subconsciousness, and new consciousness is created? See? thats why you cant remember your past lives. Subconsciousness can be accessed via meditation, or even some drugs, but those are unhealthy. Understand it as you are a soul in first place independent on the actual body, and you _use_ the body. The body is not aware of the soul, but soul is aware of the body. But its the subconsciousness that "drives" the body anf the actions, but your consciousness is not aware of it. Has it ever happened to you that you "cought your self doing something" but you cant remember what it was, untill you stop and think what you were actually doing? Like you are looking for a "toy", and then someone comes into the room and talks to you, when the person leaves you go on about "what was i doing??" and after a couple of seconds you find out you were looking for a toy.

Dude, you need a serious update on philosophy, psychology and neurophysics. Those phenomena have explanations that are backed by a lot more hard science than your metaphysical handwaving.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
There is more people alive now than ever before. Where does all these souls come from? If all of them have "lived" before, the math doesn't add up, but then again math and science have never been a hinder to rambling religious before so why should it be that now?

Erik

I believe all souls were created in the beginning, none since then. The reason for population growth is in the conditions on the earth getting better, so giving the soul greater opportunities.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
There is more people alive now than ever before. Where does all these souls come from? If all of them have "lived" before, the math doesn't add up, but then again math and science have never been a hinder to rambling religious before so why should it be that now?

Erik

Dinosaurs. What else? The thougth patterns certainly fit some posters here :wink:
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
ebrostig wrote:
There is more people alive now than ever before. Where does all these souls come from? If all of them have "lived" before, the math doesn't add up, but then again math and science have never been a hinder to rambling religious before so why should it be that now?

Erik

I believe all souls were created in the beginning, none since then. The reason for population growth is in the conditions on the earth getting better, so giving the soul greater opportunities.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH

So there are a few hundred billion souls floating somewhere, in stock that is, for delivery when there are more people born on the earth?

You are funnier than some people in the luni-bin!

Oh another question, are there any other planets with life in the universe?

Erik
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
I believe all souls were created in the beginning, none since then. The reason for population growth is in the conditions on the earth getting better, so giving the soul greater opportunities.

Ah, so their are people living with souls who have not had an earlier incarnation. But why do they than suffer? And don't try to tell me that there are people who never suffer at all. I don't buy that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
ebrostig wrote:
There is more people alive now than ever before. Where does all these souls come from? If all of them have "lived" before, the math doesn't add up, but then again math and science have never been a hinder to rambling religious before so why should it be that now?

Erik

I believe all souls were created in the beginning, none since then. The reason for population growth is in the conditions on the earth getting better, so giving the soul greater opportunities.

Man I got to bookmark this thread, this is some quality material :lol:.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
nixnut wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
It is responsibility of the soul to use every incarnation for spiritual growth, even if the required growth needs to be as quadraplegic on wheel chair. If soul uses the material body to gratify self by egoism, selfishness, self-indulgence or even idol worship, then karma will be heavy. We, today, are making our next life. You are responsible for what will your next life be !

If the soul cannot be aware of its earlier incarnations than it cannot be responsible. If the soul can be, but the person it is inhabiting cannot access the soul, the person cannot be responsible. Therefore in both cases the person should not suffer because of what may have happened earlier. And you sidestepped the question of when some soul/person can be said to be responsible.

When soul joins physical body, the soul's consciousness becomes the body's subconsciousness, and new consciousness is created? See? thats why you cant remember your past lives. Subconsciousness can be accessed via meditation, or even some drugs, but those are unhealthy. Understand it as you are a soul in first place independent on the actual body, and you _use_ the body. The body is not aware of the soul, but soul is aware of the body. But its the subconsciousness that "drives" the body anf the actions, but your consciousness is not aware of it. Has it ever happened to you that you "cought your self doing something" but you cant remember what it was, untill you stop and think what you were actually doing? Like you are looking for a "toy", and then someone comes into the room and talks to you, when the person leaves you go on about "what was i doing??" and after a couple of seconds you find out you were looking for a toy.

Dude, you need a serious update on philosophy, psychology and neurophysics. Those phenomena have explanations that are backed by a lot more hard science than your metaphysical handwaving.

You didnt get it, do you: spiritual cant be explained by science. if I forgot what I was doing, then it firstly started on spiritual level, subconsciousness, and later on it becomes "material expression". Just like every sickness is firstly sickness of spirit, and later sickness of body. Phylosophy, psychology and neurophysics... do you actully think they studied it from the spiritual side?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, petjanda, nothing you say can be explained by anything else than the following diagnosis: Religious delirium.

Erik
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, out of interest, you mentioned a few posts back that you donate to your church...
What kind of car does your spiritual leader have?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
ebrostig wrote:
There is more people alive now than ever before. Where does all these souls come from? If all of them have "lived" before, the math doesn't add up, but then again math and science have never been a hinder to rambling religious before so why should it be that now?

Erik

I believe all souls were created in the beginning, none since then. The reason for population growth is in the conditions on the earth getting better, so giving the soul greater opportunities.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH

So there are a few hundred billion souls floating somewhere, in stock that is, for delivery when there are more people born on the earth?

You are funnier than some people in the luni-bin!

Oh another question, are there any other planets with life in the universe?

Erik

Do you think that universe is the only dimension? For universe is as much material as earth, there are other dimensions for souls to occupy, and only a small portition of them actually exists in the material universe. A lot of people who believe in God, they imagine that He is somewhere in the universe, but we know that material cant contain spiritual, but spiritual contains material.
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