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Today is the 10th anniversary of Kurt Cobain's death.
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Kihaji
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john6931 wrote:
Guys, im sure that Kurt wasnt on herion to 'make himself feel better' in a typical sense. Anyone who knows anything about rock culture knows that drugs are a big part of it, especially the grunge scence (layne staley, kurt, andy wood, etc). They take drugs because its part of the scene, then they get addicted and cannot stop.


To quote a famous MadTV sketch, STOP IT. Just don't start taking drugs, it's that fucking simple. Compare the number of "Behind the Music"'s on VH1 that contain "Then I started to take <insert drug here> and my life turned to shit" vs "Then I started to take <insert drug here> and my life was infinately better". It may be the "in" thing to do, but there are enough cases out there to show rockers that fucked their career up over drugs. And I don't care how high you get, that short amount of pleasure is not worth fucking your life up over.

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To call him a pussy is just f**cking stupid. First, addiction is a chemical reaction and it is hard to stop, especially heroin. Secondly, when your that f**cked up and depressed, obvoiusly youi are not being ratinoal when you kill yourself. Its not as if, oh i should just quit tomorrow and get off drugs. Its "life sucks and i hate it'. Depression is not something that just comes and goes and that you can control, it is very hard to overcome, and combined with a drug addiction, its very very difficult.


Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.

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And yes, he couldve have, somehow, gotten off drugs, quit and lived on, but that is to ignore human feeling and emotion. People are people, they dont make rational decisions all the time, and to comdemn someone for something that they believed was their only option in a desperate time is to look at the situation from a narrow viewpoint and not realize all of the mindset and the feelings of the person who kills themselves.

Well, thats what i think. And pearl jam rocks!! god, listen to ten, its beautiful


Suicide is a cowards way out, Kurt was a coward and a pussy who thought of no one but himself. I have no respect for him, and feel no pity for him, the only one I feel pity for is his child who he made fatherless.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple fact of the matter is that rock stars and movie stars are the people who least deserve to be rich. What happens to them is the same thing that would happen if you gave $5 million to someone from a trailor park or the ghetto. They blow it on ridiculous crap such as drugs and Hummers and end up dead, in rehab, broke, or some combination of those things.

Kurt Cobain is no different. People remember him because he killed himself. He would have otherwise faded away into nothingness when his teen angst music was no longer popular.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardcore wrote:
I meant pain-killers..., you don't need them, and for the most part, they do the same as drugs or alchohol by either numbing feeling or escaping reality.


They ease pain. And pain can be a symptom of illness (like the headache you have when you have the flu, or the pain you are in when your appendix is infected). Kurt Cobain did not take heroin (or whatever he was on) so his headache would be less severe. He would have taken some Aspirin instead.

Of course you could abuse painkillers, but that's a whole different ballgame.

I do think that drug-users are losers. No-one forces them to take drugs. They make a conscious decision when they start that habit. Yes, they get physically addicted to it. But that's just the price they have to pay for their stupidity.

and yes, that means that I think that Kurt Cobain is a loser as well, no matter how talented he might have been.
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confusion
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


Oh christ. You're a clinical psychologist and neurochemist now aswell? You just dont know when to stop do you? I'd love to see what fairy tales you're basing this crap on, or some qualification of some kind, or a few scientific references or even some anecdotal evidence.

"Hey yo man try these leeches man dey'll cure what ails ya..."

Go back to shootin pack mules on ya wheat wranch ya braindead loser; the only persuasive argument you've supplied is that your gene pool should be bleached.

Take it easy :P
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, I never meant this to be a warzone :P
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Kihaji
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardcore wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.



Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found that it's mostly people that haven't faced thier own mortality that become suicidal. Almost dying against your will is a good immunity against suicide, but people who don't have that don't really have the experience nessesary to not kill themselves sometimes. I've gone through some bad times/situations, but killing myself was never an option I believe because I nearly died before. This theory may also explain why 3rd world countries, and earlier times, didn't have these problems, people where constantly at peril of death back then.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:
Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.


Well I had a rant about how bla bla bla, you were wrong, but I realized that it doesn't matter what I say, it won't make you change your crazy views on the world. I feel sorry for you.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:
hardcore wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.



Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.

I agree that Clinical depression isn't an illness. There is no correlative physical changes that can be used to mark it as an illness consistently from person to person, it's more like an infinite loop in programming than a damaged hard disk to use a crappy analogy. Some people will just keep trying to work on the hardrive instead of realising that they have to debug the software, and some are so effected by the symptoms that they can't even try to fix themselves.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocnicom wrote:

I agree that Clinical depression isn't an illness. There is no correlative physical changes that can be used to mark it as an illness consistently from person to person, it's more like an infinite loop in programming than a damaged hard disk to use a crappy analogy.


It's a mental illness, it's not physical. I've run into in enough times in my life that I can point out people who have it and people that don't. You've either never had to battle with it or never knew anyone who's had it. There's a night and day difference between when a person wasn't clinically depressed and when they are.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone notice that Kihaji did not respond to confusion's posts. Cause he cant, he got shamed. Thank you confusion for whooping him up and down. As of right now i am going to join LIK.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardcore wrote:
mocnicom wrote:

I agree that Clinical depression isn't an illness. There is no correlative physical changes that can be used to mark it as an illness consistently from person to person, it's more like an infinite loop in programming than a damaged hard disk to use a crappy analogy.


It's a mental illness, it's not physical. I've run into in enough times in my life that I can point out people who have it and people that don't. You've either never had to battle with it or never knew anyone who's had it. There's a night and day difference between when a person wasn't clinically depressed and when they are.


I didn't say that depressed people don't bahave differently than "normal", I just consider illness to be within the realm of physical only. And yes, I have had personal experience, as well as many people I know. It cannot be treated by physical means, it cannot be defined by physical means, it's not consistant from person to person.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The path that Kurt chose was a bad one, thats for sure! But lets not forget that many people are lost in their own minds. Chide them not. Suicide was the wrong answer, death by choice isn't the answer when life is the alternative.

iit's a matter of reaching people when they think that everything lost.

Life is a goal, cutting it short is a crime.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I say, Hey man, Nice shot!"
"What a good shot man"

:lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:
Suicide is a cowards way out, Kurt was a coward and a pussy who thought of no one but himself. I have no respect for him, and feel no pity for him, the only one I feel pity for is his child who he made fatherless.


Hmm, if you are so wise why have you completely ignored the fact that he had a triple lethal dose of Heroin in his blood. According to the toxocoligist, no human would be able to shoot themselves with that much drug. Let alone lift a shotgun after the fact. Or write the suicide note in two different handwritings than Kurt's.

Right after he started talking about quitting music, and thus cutting off a huge flow of cash to his bitch wife. Gee I wonder if she had anything to do with that. lol


Kihaji wrote:

Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.



It is a made up term to describe any general condition of mal-content. The symptoms are real and many people posess them. It is not as simple as "just stopping".

Your really an ass, so why don't you "just stop" being that way.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfgangVH wrote:

Hmm, if you are so wise why have you completely ignored the fact that he had a triple lethal dose of Heroin in his blood.


Opiates do build up a tolerance so he might have just been getting fucked up enough to kill himself. We'll never know unless there was a murderor who confess.

And Kihaji: Depression is an illness. Read up on it beopre talking out of your ass. It's not just being sad. You have never faced addiction or depression so you can't relate. And i'm calling bs that you have never had any alcohol. Suicide is bad, but don't just judge someone on that alone. And you should start smoking weed. If anyone needs it, it's you.

EDIT: Btw, if it's so easy to play his music b/c it's only 3 chords, then why had nobody ever done it before?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ett_gramse_nap wrote:
vificunero wrote:
Well they've written good songs and well their sound was a little bit different. But they were just a rock band and I'm sorry he's dead in that way: he was young.


They sure as well weren't a _rock_ band... everyone know they were playing grunge. Nothing else. Rock is something awful old daddys are listening to...


Grunge is a subcategory of rock. As is punk. As is (arguably) heavy metal (though one could argue that it's a subset of blues, depending on what heavy metal is in question).
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsfgf wrote:
wolfgangVH wrote:

Hmm, if you are so wise why have you completely ignored the fact that he had a triple lethal dose of Heroin in his blood.


Opiates do build up a tolerance so he might have just been getting fucked up enough to kill himself. We'll never know unless there was a murderor who confess.

And Kihaji: Depression is an illness. Read up on it beopre talking out of your ass. It's not just being sad. You have never faced addiction or depression so you can't relate. And i'm calling bs that you have never had any alcohol. Suicide is bad, but don't just judge someone on that alone. And you should start smoking weed. If anyone needs it, it's you.

EDIT: Btw, if it's so easy to play his music b/c it's only 3 chords, then why had nobody ever done it before?


Yeah, depression is an illness :roll:

It's a catchall disease, pretty much invented by the pharmacutical companies and psychologists, don't get me started on that sham science, to make money and solidify themselves as necessary. If you look at the symptoms they can apply to damn near 90+% of the population of the earth, much like ADD. And it is just "that easy", just stop being depressed, it's not hard, really, it isn't.

And I have not taken a drink ever, no need, why do you insist that I do? Are you somehow trying to validate and explain your own inability to control your impulses?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:

And I have not taken a drink ever, no need, why do you insist that I do? Are you somehow trying to validate and explain your own inability to control your impulses?


Is it for religious reasons that you have never drunk alcohol? Or maybe you are too young? I've never met anyone over 18 who hasn't had a drop of alcohol, even the ones whose religions forbid it. Then again, I only know people of european ancestry mostly, maybe your culture is different? You can't just say that and expect us to believe you, you need to provide a valid scenario or it's only likely to discredit ALL of your points.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all hail kurt cobain!! you got my eternal respect man...
ow and i think (am almost sure of it and speaking out of experience) that depression definitely is an illness and drug-users aren't all losers...
just my opinion bout all this... if anyone got something to say to this, i'll be happy to reply... :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocnicom wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

And I have not taken a drink ever, no need, why do you insist that I do? Are you somehow trying to validate and explain your own inability to control your impulses?


Is it for religious reasons that you have never drunk alcohol? Or maybe you are too young? I've never met anyone over 18 who hasn't had a drop of alcohol, even the ones whose religions forbid it. Then again, I only know people of european ancestry mostly, maybe your culture is different? You can't just say that and expect us to believe you, you need to provide a valid scenario or it's only likely to discredit ALL of your points.


I never wanted to, it's not religious as I don't follow any formal religion. I am old enough, by 7 years now, and my ancestry and where I live are very much embroiled in the culture of alcohol, my town has the worlds largest 6 pack in it. It just never appealed to me.

And to shut the people up before it starts, it's not that I am better than you, it's not that I look down on those who do, in moderation, it's just a choice I made, I don't do any drugs or alcohol, it's just not my bag.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought, would you describe traditional suicide a warrior class (samurai) in Japan used to commit as being pussy as well?

Also, feeling down is not the same as being depressed.

P.S. I have no idea what the Kurt Cobain was thinking of, but Soundgarden still kicks Nirvana's ass 8)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Souperman wrote:
Sorry dude, blowing your own brains out takes HUGE balls, so the whole coward thing just doesn't hold water.


It takes courage to face life. Suicide is the easy way out. It is this glorification of suicide that makes people do it.

Believe me, been there.. missed that :wink: and boy am I glad!! :D
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bos_mindwarp wrote:
Just a thought, would you describe traditional suicide a warrior class (samurai) in Japan used to commit as being pussy as well?


Seppuku is not what I would classify as suicide, it is the exact opposite of suicide. Suicide is cowardly, dishonorable, and a means to avoid problems. Seppuku was an acceptance of defeat, and a fulfillment of fate/destiny. A samurai would even consider what Cobain did as cowardly and a waste.
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