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Today is the 10th anniversary of Kurt Cobain's death.
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jaska
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:
bos_mindwarp wrote:
Just a thought, would you describe traditional suicide a warrior class (samurai) in Japan used to commit as being pussy as well?


Seppuku is not what I would classify as suicide, it is the exact opposite of suicide. Suicide is cowardly, dishonorable, and a means to avoid problems. Seppuku was an acceptance of defeat, and a fulfillment of fate/destiny. A samurai would even consider what Cobain did as cowardly and a waste.


First you call suicide the pussy's method to get out of problems and now you are dividing suicide into what is acceptable and what is not, I don't understand your logic.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaska wrote:
Kihaji wrote:
bos_mindwarp wrote:
Just a thought, would you describe traditional suicide a warrior class (samurai) in Japan used to commit as being pussy as well?


Seppuku is not what I would classify as suicide, it is the exact opposite of suicide. Suicide is cowardly, dishonorable, and a means to avoid problems. Seppuku was an acceptance of defeat, and a fulfillment of fate/destiny. A samurai would even consider what Cobain did as cowardly and a waste.


First you call suicide the pussy's method to get out of problems and now you are dividing suicide into what is acceptable and what is not, I don't understand your logic.


I don't really consider it suicide either. They only did it when they were defeated and would be killed anyways, but the enemy simply gave them a chance to maintain thier honor by ending themselves, or they failed in some other unacceptable way that thier superior expects them to die for. They aren't choosing to end thier life, just choosing the most honorable form of execution.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding and adding to the evidence that Kurt was murdered rather than he commited suicide:

As was said, he head 3x what would be considered a lethal dosage, handwriting experts have expressed doubt to the writing on the note, and most importantly - and I dont think it's been mentioned - his fingerprints were not on the gun found at the scene.

As far as his music, I'm a fan. The amount of musicians today that list Nirvana as an inspiration I think at least gives them some legitimacy.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viperlin wrote:
yes and the autopsy did say he was so doped up he couldn't see the gun, nevermind pick it up and shoot himself

if he was doped up it was a halusogen*, he probably thought the gun was a chocolate milk spray gun and wanted a drink, you can't judge someone when they are doped up, some people killed themselves by thinking they could fly and jumping off a cliff, does that make them a coward?

* = i can't spell that word


He was doped up? His own fault for being such a twit.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viperlin wrote:
erm, why is it called limelight?
limelight refered to the early days of theatre, when people would burn (I think) lime (CaCO3) to produce a very bright light used for spotlights.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kihaji wrote:
hardcore wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.



Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.


You obviously have no idea how the human mind works. It's a delicate balance of electrical and chemical impulses. A change in either of those two factors can have innumerable consequences.

"Just stop being depressed" is not an option. I really can't believe how fucking ignorant you are when it comes to anything. Clinical depression is not a made up illness. It's a serious disease with severe consequences. Until you can perfect the human genome to prevent the imbalances from occuring, you have no fucking right to talk. The human mind is fragile. If you don't believe me, stab yourslef in the head with an ice pick, then we'll see how well your mind recovers.

And stop talking about human will. It doesn't exist. Stop spouting your fucking religous propaganda around here. What about those of us that don't believe in a will, or a soul, or a higher spirit? Are we inheritly "weak" compared to this perfect mind that you seem to have?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread reminds me of the last time kihaji and everybody lost their minds.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lightvhawk0 wrote:
This thread reminds me of the last time kihaji and everybody lost their minds.


Ahhh, the memories.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steel300 wrote:
Kihaji wrote:
hardcore wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.



Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.


You obviously have no idea how the human mind works. It's a delicate balance of electrical and chemical impulses. A change in either of those two factors can have innumerable consequences.

"Just stop being depressed" is not an option. I really can't believe how fucking ignorant you are when it comes to anything. Clinical depression is not a made up illness. It's a serious disease with severe consequences. Until you can perfect the human genome to prevent the imbalances from occuring, you have no fucking right to talk. The human mind is fragile. If you don't believe me, stab yourslef in the head with an ice pick, then we'll see how well your mind recovers.

And stop talking about human will. It doesn't exist. Stop spouting your fucking religous propaganda around here. What about those of us that don't believe in a will, or a soul, or a higher spirit? Are we inheritly "weak" compared to this perfect mind that you seem to have?

LIK++
I agree with you, steel300. Let me directly disprove Kihaji: If the brain ignores slight chemical changes, then SSRIs would have no effect on the brain.They have a huge effect on the brain, from basic body functions (appetite, sleep) to depression. Enough of an effect that some SSRIs have been traded as drugs of abuse. Perhaps Kihaji would benifit from having both his parents be psychiatrists, as I have. If Kihaji would like to learn, instead of spouting nonsence, s/he should look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor .

Furhtermore, it is true that ADD has sometimes been hyped. But it is real. It is still not very well understood, so there are some doubts about it. But the chemical levels in the brain that affect AD(H)D are hereditary, and, as I have proved above, actually do matter. For more information on AD(H)D, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder .

I've been depressed. You don't know what it is like, fucktard. It ruined two years of my life.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

homeobocks wrote:
steel300 wrote:
Kihaji wrote:
hardcore wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.



Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.


You obviously have no idea how the human mind works. It's a delicate balance of electrical and chemical impulses. A change in either of those two factors can have innumerable consequences.

"Just stop being depressed" is not an option. I really can't believe how fucking ignorant you are when it comes to anything. Clinical depression is not a made up illness. It's a serious disease with severe consequences. Until you can perfect the human genome to prevent the imbalances from occuring, you have no fucking right to talk. The human mind is fragile. If you don't believe me, stab yourslef in the head with an ice pick, then we'll see how well your mind recovers.

And stop talking about human will. It doesn't exist. Stop spouting your fucking religous propaganda around here. What about those of us that don't believe in a will, or a soul, or a higher spirit? Are we inheritly "weak" compared to this perfect mind that you seem to have?

LIK++
I agree with you, steel300. Let me directly disprove Kihaji: If the brain ignores slight chemical changes, then SSRIs would have no effect on the brain.They have a huge effect on the brain, from basic body functions (appetite, sleep) to depression. Enough of an effect that some SSRIs have been traded as drugs of abuse. Perhaps Kihaji would benifit from having both his parents be psychiatrists, as I have. If Kihaji would like to learn, instead of spouting nonsence, s/he should look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor .

Furhtermore, it is true that ADD has sometimes been hyped. But it is real. It is still not very well understood, so there are some doubts about it. But the chemical levels in the brain that affect AD(H)D are hereditary, and, as I have proved above, actually do matter. For more information on AD(H)D, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder .

I've been depressed. You don't know what it is like, fucktard. It ruined two years of my life.


Amen brother. Just stop being depressed is garbage. Anyone who has ever been/is depressed will know that. I'm going through it right now. It's hell. There is no way to just stop being depressed. It's imposible to control these things.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to agree with the fact that clinical depression is, of course, real. I live it everyday. It's incredibly difficult. It's kind of freaky to just catch yourself staring at the set of steak knives in your kitchen.

HOWEVER! I think WAY too many people buy it as a simple catch-all for whenever someone reacts poorly to a situation. Becoming depressed after a family member dies, for example, is not clinical depression. But I can't count the number of times I've seen people popping Prozac, or Paxil, or whatever the fuck else they perscribe for this shit now, and it really won't make much of an impact. I personally choose not to take anti-depressants because I strongly believe that they're bullshit. If you watch the commercials for these drugs, they clearly state they have no idea what really causes depression or exactly how to fix it. So why would I choke down a drug that probably won't work, and in the process keep my dick from working? Fuck that. I'm fortunate though. There are plenty of people in my family alone that can't function without anti-depressants. The human mind is a powerful tool, but if it doesn't function properly from the get-go, I see only limited options.

Cobain is a bit of a special case. I have doubts as to whether he was depressed to begin with, but being hopped up on heroin all the time could easily cause some mental problems. And I still think it's bullshit bailing on his child. My fiance just gave birth less than two weeks ago, and despite all the late-night feedings, and random crying and wailing, I love my son more than my life itself. I could NEVER do something like kill myself and leave my fiance to raise him alone. Obviously the heroin affected his ability to think clearly, but I have little sympathy for drug users (and I used to be one, so I should know). A few pages back, one person described Kurt Cobain as a spark of hope for generation of youth, that they might have a chance to make it. Bullshit. I AM that generation. I was in 5th grade when he popped himself. I think it was remembered for a whopping 3 days. Nobody gave a shit. As for a punk-ass kids making it in the real world, I succeeded there too. I dropped out of high school to take care of a family member who had fallen deathly ill. That killed any chance of college. Now I'm working my ass off just to make ends meet. But I've got a wonderful fiance, a beautiful baby son, and at least enough cash to feed us and pay for cable. Maybe I'm not rich, but I've made it. I don't see how idolizing some hack of a musician (and whether I respect the man's success or not has nothing to do with the fact that he was a shitty musician) gives a generation a glimmer of hope. I mean, I have high doubts that anybody in my fifth grade class has any music videos coming out anytime soon.

Basically, I have a hard time respecting the man in any way shape or form. He screwed over his family, and that to me is enough to warrant my disgust. If the guy had clinical depression, then I can understand where the feeling of unexplainable pain comes from, but there ARE therapy options. I mean, I may not like anti-depressants, but if I ever thought that the barrel of a gun looked REALLY attractive, I'd be choking down Prozac in a second. And I really believe he was just a selfish junkie asshole that caused his own problems.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I've probably pissed off some people, but I can't deny what I feel. If he didn't have a son, then I think I could respect him a little more, or at least respect his right to make that decision. But...like it was said earlier, you don't bail on your family.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot one thing. May Kurt's memory live on.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SabonSorte wrote:
I'd have to agree with the fact that clinical depression is, of course, real. I live it everyday. It's incredibly difficult. It's kind of freaky to just catch yourself staring at the set of steak knives in your kitchen.

HOWEVER! I think WAY too many people buy it as a simple catch-all for whenever someone reacts poorly to a situation. Becoming depressed after a family member dies, for example, is not clinical depression. But I can't count the number of times I've seen people popping Prozac, or Paxil, or whatever the fuck else they perscribe for this shit now, and it really won't make much of an impact. I personally choose not to take anti-depressants because I strongly believe that they're bullshit. If you watch the commercials for these drugs, they clearly state they have no idea what really causes depression or exactly how to fix it. So why would I choke down a drug that probably won't work, and in the process keep my dick from working? Fuck that. I'm fortunate though. There are plenty of people in my family alone that can't function without anti-depressants. The human mind is a powerful tool, but if it doesn't function properly from the get-go, I see only limited options.

Cobain is a bit of a special case. I have doubts as to whether he was depressed to begin with, but being hopped up on heroin all the time could easily cause some mental problems. And I still think it's bullshit bailing on his child. My fiance just gave birth less than two weeks ago, and despite all the late-night feedings, and random crying and wailing, I love my son more than my life itself. I could NEVER do something like kill myself and leave my fiance to raise him alone. Obviously the heroin affected his ability to think clearly, but I have little sympathy for drug users (and I used to be one, so I should know). A few pages back, one person described Kurt Cobain as a spark of hope for generation of youth, that they might have a chance to make it. Bullshit. I AM that generation. I was in 5th grade when he popped himself. I think it was remembered for a whopping 3 days. Nobody gave a shit. As for a punk-ass kids making it in the real world, I succeeded there too. I dropped out of high school to take care of a family member who had fallen deathly ill. That killed any chance of college. Now I'm working my ass off just to make ends meet. But I've got a wonderful fiance, a beautiful baby son, and at least enough cash to feed us and pay for cable. Maybe I'm not rich, but I've made it. I don't see how idolizing some hack of a musician (and whether I respect the man's success or not has nothing to do with the fact that he was a shitty musician) gives a generation a glimmer of hope. I mean, I have high doubts that anybody in my fifth grade class has any music videos coming out anytime soon.

Basically, I have a hard time respecting the man in any way shape or form. He screwed over his family, and that to me is enough to warrant my disgust. If the guy had clinical depression, then I can understand where the feeling of unexplainable pain comes from, but there ARE therapy options. I mean, I may not like anti-depressants, but if I ever thought that the barrel of a gun looked REALLY attractive, I'd be choking down Prozac in a second. And I really believe he was just a selfish junkie asshole that caused his own problems.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I've probably pissed off some people, but I can't deny what I feel. If he didn't have a son, then I think I could respect him a little more, or at least respect his right to make that decision. But...like it was said earlier, you don't bail on your family.


If you are very severly clinically depressed (and I know, as well as you do), depression becomes very overwhelming. Despite all the rational thoughts that do come across your consious mind, depression still causes irrational decisions to occur (like leaving your kid by suicide or staring at knives). I am most definately not saying it was O.K., but I do understand. Oh and having a whore of a wife didn't help the situation either :wink:

And back on topic with this thread...

R.I.P Kurt
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kert koban wuz totly kewl. i likd hiz musc nd he wuz hott!!!!!1

lolz :P :P :P :o
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to bring it back to the basics of everything: why Kurt Cobain was important to those who "Ideolize" him.

First off, anyone who "Idolizes" someone else (note: idolize, not idEolize) has severe emotional/mental issues already. I don't think that anyone ideolized Kurt Cobain. I think many respected him and looked up to him. I, as a musician, try to emulate some of the sounds he got in his music, some of the beats he wrote, and the general feel of his music. I think the mood each different his songs cast on itself was beneficial to the song. It made each song a complete entity, something that a lot of music, both today and then, just don't do.

He was a skilled musician, and everyone who actually took the time to learn about music will tell you that.

The simple fact of the matter is that fame is not for everyone. Judy Garland killed herself, but no one says she's a coward for it. A lot of teen suicides are foolish and based on temporary conditions. A lot of adult suicides are the same. However, Kurt's situation was not temporary. Even if he retired from the music industry, which he couldn't because of his contract with the record company, and moved to another country, which wouldn't be good for family relations, he couldn't avoid fame. I've gotta tell you that I wouldn't react well if I couldn't take a leak at McDonald's without some fan asking me for my autograph. But I'd prolly shoot everyone else instead of myself. But not everyone is homocidal, some are suicidal, and this is due to depression and other things.

He was chronically depressed and the acute depression just compounded it all. All of you with children and wives....imagine your wife left you after 15 years for some other guy, and then wanted took the kid to Canada with that guy. You go to talk her out of taking your kid to another country and she file suit for you getting "violent" with her (all the yelling) and now the court says you have no visitation rights. Your family believes the whole deal and won't talk to you. That's what Kurt experienced...except his child was freedom. He didn't want kids, he liked being free to do as he wished without hinderence. He lost all of that over and over again.

He was a skilled man, that like most skilled men, suffered tremendously. He just wasn't built to handle the pain. He wasn't weak, he just wasn't strong enough to live in the situation he was forced into.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hot_princess123 wrote:
kert koban wuz totly kewl. i likd hiz musc nd he wuz hott!!!!!1

lolz :P :P :P :o


*sigh*

Not sure whether to cry or laugh from that post.

I hope it was meant as a joke, else I'm about to go ballistic here.

Is it so difficult to try to write a somewhat coherent response in proper language?

Erik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hot_princess123 wrote:
kert koban wuz totly kewl. i likd hiz musc nd he wuz hott!!!!!1

lolz :P :P :P :o


That just about sums up all I would ever need to say about Kurt Cobain and his pop culture. (and don't try to tell me he wasn't followed by pop culture).
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have 2 things to say here.

1. Let the man rest in peace.
2. He was a pussy and his music was crap.

and that's just my opinion.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SabonSorte wrote:
I'd have to agree with the fact that clinical depression is, of course, real. I live it everyday. It's incredibly difficult. It's kind of freaky to just catch yourself staring at the set of steak knives in your kitchen.

HOWEVER! I think WAY too many people buy it as a simple catch-all for whenever someone reacts poorly to a situation. Becoming depressed after a family member dies, for example, is not clinical depression. But I can't count the number of times I've seen people popping Prozac, or Paxil, or whatever the fuck else they perscribe for this shit now, and it really won't make much of an impact. I personally choose not to take anti-depressants because I strongly believe that they're bullshit. If you watch the commercials for these drugs, they clearly state they have no idea what really causes depression or exactly how to fix it. So why would I choke down a drug that probably won't work, and in the process keep my dick from working? Fuck that. I'm fortunate though. There are plenty of people in my family alone that can't function without anti-depressants. The human mind is a powerful tool, but if it doesn't function properly from the get-go, I see only limited options.

Cobain is a bit of a special case. I have doubts as to whether he was depressed to begin with, but being hopped up on heroin all the time could easily cause some mental problems. And I still think it's bullshit bailing on his child. My fiance just gave birth less than two weeks ago, and despite all the late-night feedings, and random crying and wailing, I love my son more than my life itself. I could NEVER do something like kill myself and leave my fiance to raise him alone. Obviously the heroin affected his ability to think clearly, but I have little sympathy for drug users (and I used to be one, so I should know). A few pages back, one person described Kurt Cobain as a spark of hope for generation of youth, that they might have a chance to make it. Bullshit. I AM that generation. I was in 5th grade when he popped himself. I think it was remembered for a whopping 3 days. Nobody gave a shit. As for a punk-ass kids making it in the real world, I succeeded there too. I dropped out of high school to take care of a family member who had fallen deathly ill. That killed any chance of college. Now I'm working my ass off just to make ends meet. But I've got a wonderful fiance, a beautiful baby son, and at least enough cash to feed us and pay for cable. Maybe I'm not rich, but I've made it. I don't see how idolizing some hack of a musician (and whether I respect the man's success or not has nothing to do with the fact that he was a shitty musician) gives a generation a glimmer of hope. I mean, I have high doubts that anybody in my fifth grade class has any music videos coming out anytime soon.

Basically, I have a hard time respecting the man in any way shape or form. He screwed over his family, and that to me is enough to warrant my disgust. If the guy had clinical depression, then I can understand where the feeling of unexplainable pain comes from, but there ARE therapy options. I mean, I may not like anti-depressants, but if I ever thought that the barrel of a gun looked REALLY attractive, I'd be choking down Prozac in a second. And I really believe he was just a selfish junkie asshole that caused his own problems.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I've probably pissed off some people, but I can't deny what I feel. If he didn't have a son, then I think I could respect him a little more, or at least respect his right to make that decision. But...like it was said earlier, you don't bail on your family.


Dude, if you're really depressed (and if you're serious about "catch[ing] yourself staring at the set of steak knives in your kitchen," it sounds like you are) you should try something. Alcohol helps depression, but if that doesn't do it for you, try prosac. It really works and there have been medical tests to prove it. just my $.02.

Anyway, Kahaiji (or whatever) has given up and left the thread, so we can stop arguing with him.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, no alcohol for depression. Don't try to self medicate depression with a depressant. Get help.
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CharlieS
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt did not commit suicide.. have yall not read about the theories that Courtney Love had him kiilled.. there are very very interestings websites about it.. one was a cop who was around for the entire investigation.. and interviewed Love and still thinks she had it done.. GOOGLE it..
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TJNII
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlieS wrote:
Curt did not commit suicide.. have yall not read about the theories that Courtney Love had him kiilled.. there are very very interestings websites about it.. one was a cop who was around for the entire investigation.. and interviewed Love and still thinks she had it done.. GOOGLE it..

That was mentioned on either the first or second page.
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khiloa
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paranode wrote:
hot_princess123 wrote:
kert koban wuz totly kewl. i likd hiz musc nd he wuz hott!!!!!1

lolz :P :P :P :o


That just about sums up all I would ever need to say about Kurt Cobain and his pop culture. (and don't try to tell me he wasn't followed by pop culture).

*sigh*

yep
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homeobocks
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsfgf wrote:
SabonSorte wrote:
I'd have to agree with the fact that clinical depression is, of course, real. I live it everyday. It's incredibly difficult. It's kind of freaky to just catch yourself staring at the set of steak knives in your kitchen.

HOWEVER! I think WAY too many people buy it as a simple catch-all for whenever someone reacts poorly to a situation. Becoming depressed after a family member dies, for example, is not clinical depression. But I can't count the number of times I've seen people popping Prozac, or Paxil, or whatever the fuck else they perscribe for this shit now, and it really won't make much of an impact. I personally choose not to take anti-depressants because I strongly believe that they're bullshit. If you watch the commercials for these drugs, they clearly state they have no idea what really causes depression or exactly how to fix it. So why would I choke down a drug that probably won't work, and in the process keep my dick from working? Fuck that. I'm fortunate though. There are plenty of people in my family alone that can't function without anti-depressants. The human mind is a powerful tool, but if it doesn't function properly from the get-go, I see only limited options.

Cobain is a bit of a special case. I have doubts as to whether he was depressed to begin with, but being hopped up on heroin all the time could easily cause some mental problems. And I still think it's bullshit bailing on his child. My fiance just gave birth less than two weeks ago, and despite all the late-night feedings, and random crying and wailing, I love my son more than my life itself. I could NEVER do something like kill myself and leave my fiance to raise him alone. Obviously the heroin affected his ability to think clearly, but I have little sympathy for drug users (and I used to be one, so I should know). A few pages back, one person described Kurt Cobain as a spark of hope for generation of youth, that they might have a chance to make it. Bullshit. I AM that generation. I was in 5th grade when he popped himself. I think it was remembered for a whopping 3 days. Nobody gave a shit. As for a punk-ass kids making it in the real world, I succeeded there too. I dropped out of high school to take care of a family member who had fallen deathly ill. That killed any chance of college. Now I'm working my ass off just to make ends meet. But I've got a wonderful fiance, a beautiful baby son, and at least enough cash to feed us and pay for cable. Maybe I'm not rich, but I've made it. I don't see how idolizing some hack of a musician (and whether I respect the man's success or not has nothing to do with the fact that he was a shitty musician) gives a generation a glimmer of hope. I mean, I have high doubts that anybody in my fifth grade class has any music videos coming out anytime soon.

Basically, I have a hard time respecting the man in any way shape or form. He screwed over his family, and that to me is enough to warrant my disgust. If the guy had clinical depression, then I can understand where the feeling of unexplainable pain comes from, but there ARE therapy options. I mean, I may not like anti-depressants, but if I ever thought that the barrel of a gun looked REALLY attractive, I'd be choking down Prozac in a second. And I really believe he was just a selfish junkie asshole that caused his own problems.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I've probably pissed off some people, but I can't deny what I feel. If he didn't have a son, then I think I could respect him a little more, or at least respect his right to make that decision. But...like it was said earlier, you don't bail on your family.


Dude, if you're really depressed (and if you're serious about "catch[ing] yourself staring at the set of steak knives in your kitchen," it sounds like you are) you should try something. Alcohol helps depression, but if that doesn't do it for you, try prosac. It really works and there have been medical tests to prove it. just my $.02.

Anyway, Kahaiji (or whatever) has given up and left the thread, so we can stop arguing with him.
Alcohol will only make things worse. And Prozac isn't for everybody.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steel300 wrote:
homeobocks wrote:
steel300 wrote:
Kihaji wrote:
hardcore wrote:
Kihaji wrote:

Clinical depression is a sham, just like ADD, but thats another issue. I don't care how difficult it is, I don't care how hard it is, life is ALWAYS better than death. You can change how your life is going, once you are dead you can't change anything.


You may be able to change your life, but its hundreds of times more difficult to get over depression. You try battling depression you Artard. Sometimes I can't even respond to you because I'm frankly disgusted by your ignorance. And some things in life ARE worse than death.



Repeat after me, Clinical Depression is a made up illness, the human mind and will is more than resiliant enough to handle a little chemical imbalance, or a emotional stress. People get depressed because the LET themselves be depressed.

The cure for clinical depression is simple, just fucking stop being depressed. It really is that simple.


You obviously have no idea how the human mind works. It's a delicate balance of electrical and chemical impulses. A change in either of those two factors can have innumerable consequences.

"Just stop being depressed" is not an option. I really can't believe how fucking ignorant you are when it comes to anything. Clinical depression is not a made up illness. It's a serious disease with severe consequences. Until you can perfect the human genome to prevent the imbalances from occuring, you have no fucking right to talk. The human mind is fragile. If you don't believe me, stab yourslef in the head with an ice pick, then we'll see how well your mind recovers.

And stop talking about human will. It doesn't exist. Stop spouting your fucking religous propaganda around here. What about those of us that don't believe in a will, or a soul, or a higher spirit? Are we inheritly "weak" compared to this perfect mind that you seem to have?

LIK++
I agree with you, steel300. Let me directly disprove Kihaji: If the brain ignores slight chemical changes, then SSRIs would have no effect on the brain.They have a huge effect on the brain, from basic body functions (appetite, sleep) to depression. Enough of an effect that some SSRIs have been traded as drugs of abuse. Perhaps Kihaji would benifit from having both his parents be psychiatrists, as I have. If Kihaji would like to learn, instead of spouting nonsence, s/he should look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor .

Furhtermore, it is true that ADD has sometimes been hyped. But it is real. It is still not very well understood, so there are some doubts about it. But the chemical levels in the brain that affect AD(H)D are hereditary, and, as I have proved above, actually do matter. For more information on AD(H)D, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder .

I've been depressed. You don't know what it is like, fucktard. It ruined two years of my life.


Amen brother. Just stop being depressed is garbage. Anyone who has ever been/is depressed will know that. I'm going through it right now. It's hell. There is no way to just stop being depressed. It's imposible to control these things.



I do believe clinical depression is real, and ADD is real, there are chemical imbalances. but I agree with Kihaji in that human will is more powerful. I believe in "mind over matter". afterall, what causes these chemical imbalances? it is a physical occurance, these imbalances are, probably triggered by a traumatic event. is it the mind reacting to the "depressing" events which causes chemical imbalances?

saying that depression is uncontrollable is wrong. it has to be controllable.
the same way that your body produces these chemical imbalances it can also do the opposite. medicines can help, but ultimatley it is up to oneself to determine when they are "better". but i dont believe in all these medications out today. there is a pill for just abut everything.

and whats with everybody putting down kurt cobain? he rules. his music is still better than all this crap thats out today.

R.I.P. kurt
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