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sindre
Guru
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 315
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| craftyc wrote: | | sindre wrote: | | Last time I tried FreeBSD (5.x) I couldn't get my gamepad working. On the plus side my soundcard (cmipci) was mixing perfectly, something neither alsa or oss on linux was capable of. Oh and wine was less stable and winex was hard to get working at all. |
That's odd. I have the same soundcard chipset and mine works without any problems (in Linux since 2.4.1 . |
Yes it works like any other soundcard lacking hardware mixing support. You have to use a software mixer to be able to play multiple sounds at once, and the software mixers aren't always very great (dmix wasn't very usable back then). FreeBSD managed to play sound streams from any program at once apparantly without the need of a software mixer. Maybe FreeBSD has a great transparant software mixer that everything is automatically streamed through. Or maybe it somehow supported hardware mixing on may soundcard. |
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jcmorris
Apprentice
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sindre wrote: | I think the base system didn't appreciate anything above -O1, but I can't be sure. I guess some of this is due to cflag-filtering in the gentoo ebuilds.
I hope many of these problems are gone now in the 5.x tree. I don't now anything about 4.x. I guess some of these problems might be easily solved by an experienced freebsd-user, but then again noone on their forums seemed to be able to help... |
Yes, it is indeed sensitive to CFLAGS settings, but they don't have the Gentoo "I HAVE to make this 2% faster" mentality that many Gentoo users have. I have set my CFLAGS to -O1 and to be honest there is not much of a difference in performance between it and a Gentoo install. FreeBSD is also aimed at stability. Many people don't realize what kinds of hidden bugs even -O2 can produce. So, FreeBSD does no CFLAGS filtering because its target audience usually doesn't over-optimize.
jcm
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shredz
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Antwerp
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:46 am Post subject: |
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I just installed freeBSD 5.3 this week and updated it to the last port stuff, then compiled all my usual stuff like kde 3.3.2, mplayer and such.
This blew me away frankly. Without tuning really anything, no cflags, no use flags no nothing I had a system that did everything I could on gentoo and it does compiling and openGL (nvidia card) faster 
It's not like my gentoo is crap, I have a 2.6.8.1 kernel with nptl and fully prelinked system. CFLAGS are -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon-xp -pipe -s but it all doesn't matter apparently, the gentoo kde experience is good, fbsd's just seems smoother in some snapishly unexplainable way.
I really do wonder where freebsd gets its speed boost from, even the hd it's on in my system is only about half as fast according to hdparm as the gentoo drive, and linux has reiserfs which is supposed to be faster once again.
I really don't get it... does linux not support nforce2 hd's that well or something ? Is it cause I run like everything on gentoo stable with gcc 3.3.4 while fbsd has 3.4.2 ? Most packages on the fBSD system are more recent then gentoo's just cause I run it in stable, someone enlighten me please  |
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Athas
Guru
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 394
Location: Brøndby, Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| shredz wrote: | | I really do wonder where freebsd gets its speed boost from, even the hd it's on in my system is only about half as fast according to hdparm as the gentoo drive, and linux has reiserfs which is supposed to be faster once again. |
I think it's the kernel that does it. Back when I ran FreeBSD 4.x, it was far faster than any operating system I had ever tried. I could even run 3D games faster than in Gentoo, something that made me proclaim FreeBSD the choice of operating system for discerning gamers... 
I was very impressed. I still am, and I do try out FreeBSD from time to time, but since I don't care much for performance anymore, I don't want the hassle of migrating my configuration to a new operating system.
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agenem
n00b
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, but i have to be honest - at least concerning my personal experience;
I really like gentoo, being using it for at least a year, previously mandrake and redhat on my home computer;
Always found answers to (many) problems concerning installation in forums, configuration, which modules to use, which options in kernel to make them work, etc...
But never succeded to make it work really well... KDE, for example, always looked bloated, nonresponsive under gentoo... (in a 2.8 Athlon XP!); emerge sync took a long time, reiserfs consuming a lot of cpu on acessing hd, roaring penguim always a problem with my adsl connection.... not to mention nvidia problems, difficulties to configure a usb mouse...
(not a good experience as with os x on job and my laptop - but nonetheless, better than windows)
Had a spare old hd (33 ata old 6 gb hd), installed freebsd 5.3... and... (so far so good):
have to recognize: it just works!
KDE feels much, much faster, responsive. Even on an old hd and heavy load.
It recognized everything! Even the mouse (after turning on the usb daemon in sysinstall)!
Sysinstall is a really nice tool.
Support to pppoe is much better, everything in kernel - immediate connection - compared to roaring penguim (sometimes up to 15 seconds to connect);
No problem with video card, detected and worked automatically...
Only complain: not recognized onboard (nvidia2) ethernet - but seems like it is not a problem, freebsd 5.3 can nativelly use windows network card drivers...
The packages in port are newer than those in gentoo (synchronized ports and at moment compiling kde 3.2.2); and 12000 packages, 4000 more than in gentoo.
Higher quality feeling. Now knows why apple chose freebsd as the base of darwin, which is the base of os x. Technically better.
Once i boot back and burn all my 240 gb classical music downloads to make room and reformat hds (its a pitty cannot access reiserfs from bsd) - i'll keep freebsd on my home pc...
Oops: forget to mention one last thing - the boot time.
It is MUCH (3 -4 times?) faster in freebsd (and I am comparing a ata33 drive with bsd and a ata 100 with gentoo). Yes, I have followed instructions to optimize gentoo startup. Yes, system is prelinked. |
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seank
l33t
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 686
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| When you run FreeBSD on the desktop you will end up with a system full of GNU software running on a BSD kernel. |
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Boris27
Guru
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Almelo, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| sean_micken wrote: | | When you run FreeBSD on the desktop you will end up with a system full of GNU software running on a BSD kernel. |
So?
Most of us don't really pick a side (RMS's or the BSD side). We just agree that once its open-source, it's all fine.
I really don't get the RMS vs BSD argument. They're both fine systems (politically and technically), and the motivation for each is good.
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oldan
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 137
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| agenem wrote: | I really like gentoo, being using it for at least a year, previously mandrake and redhat on my home computer;
(snip)
But never succeded to make it work really well... KDE, for example, always looked bloated, nonresponsive under gentoo... (in a 2.8 Athlon XP!); emerge sync took a long time, reiserfs consuming a lot of cpu on acessing hd, roaring penguim always a problem with my adsl connection.... not to mention nvidia problems, difficulties to configure a usb mouse... |
Yikes... that sounds like a problem with your compile(s).
I'm running on a lowly 1.6GHz Dell D600 laptop and it's the bomb! The only frustration I have is getting the friggin' bluetooth to work right with my bluetooth mouse. Not that that is any big deal, because my wireless USB mouse worked the first time I plugged it in.
--Oldan |
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shredz
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Antwerp
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| agenem wrote: |
Only complain: not recognized onboard (nvidia2) ethernet - but seems like it is not a problem, freebsd 5.3 can nativelly use windows network card drivers...
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It can also use the linux nvnet driver which works fine too. |
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shredz
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Antwerp
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: |
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This might concern most gentoo users I suppose, but I did notice a few things that might cause this difference in speed everyone refers to for compilation and KDE.
First of all my gentoo cflags are set to a quite modest
| Code: | | CFLAGS= -march=athlon-xp -O2 -pipe -s -fomit-framepointer |
on freeBSD I just left everything at default which I think is
Some builds do seem to go O2 and mplayer does use runtime cpu detection etc.
Taking a look at KDE 3.3.2 on my NPTL, prelinked, 2.6.10 kernel gentoo reveals that the size of konqueror was somewhere near 35 kb, not much you'd think for a 58MB/sec hard drive, but on freeBSD the konqueror executable is only 3.5 kb 
So I took another look and seems most library and executable files are all a bit smaller... that is if you call a factor 10 in size difference 'a bit smaller'.
Fact is freeBSD does feel faster for everything, and it seems to handle more load at the same time. So I was wondering what you get as surplus for a mile long cflag line if any at all. Wouldn't a system with just -O -march=athlon-xp -pipe and full NPTL/prelinking on gentoo feel a lot faster for average desktop use ?
I mean I'm not talking about povray or any program that requires heavy calculating, but considering the basic desktop system should just be snappy all around. I mean what good is a konqueror that draws it's icons in 0.02 seconds instead of 0.08 seconds if it takes the 'fast' version a few times longer to open in the 1st place.
I could try out all of the above, but since I need to actually do stuff on my computer I ain't got the time to build everything anew. Any comments ? |
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Stieltje
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 158
Location: The land where the sky is black
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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freebsd and gentoo is quite ok, I'd be changing to freebsd if SATA worked ok.
but the operating system that blows everything out of the water, is openbsd, this is pure porno, smoother than a milk bathed teen girl
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Stieltje
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 158
Location: The land where the sky is black
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:35 am Post subject: |
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and by the way, the gentoo portage system is stupidly inferior to the ports system, and, has anyone responsible for portage ever heard the word STABLE???????
second, if you cannot provide a working install cd, fuck off from the fucking distro market.
break whatever you want, but breaking gcc is unforgivable.
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shredz
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Antwerp
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Well I actually recompiled gentoo using a 3.4 version of gcc and just -pipe -s -Os -march=athlon-xp as cflags... works hell of a lot faster then ever before and seems to use less memory as well.
FreeBSD 5.3 has gcc 3.4 by default, so I was actually comparing a 3.3.5 system to a 3.4 and this doesn't seem quite fair. In fact, now doom 3 runs significantly faster on gentoo then freeBSD. FreeBSD is still the option for people who just want a permanent working system imo. |
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plbe
l33t
Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| @Stieltje ports has had what...20 something years to mature? portage has had what? a few years? EOF |
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yaneurabeya
Veteran
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 1754
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm... just to add my input.
Here are some good things I've found about both Gentoo and FreeBSD.
Pro-FreeBSD:
-Hardware kernel modules just work. This is most likely because Linus is but one man and the FreeBSD group has multiple people checking kernel development. End of story.
-The OS is more binary based with (seemingly) faster load times. This in turn allows for people to configure and setup systems much faster with a lot less downtime/overhead assuming that you don't have to use the ports system to compile packages.
Pro-Gentoo:
-Installation and configuration is much simpler with the portage system and the dispatch-conf/etc-update configuration managers.
-Software is easier to come by for Linux than FreeBSD because more devs use a Linux model it seems to check for compatibility with (ie glibc, Linux kernel, etc).
-Linux kernels have an ncurses interface for configuration!
Btw, I don't really give a rat's ass if it's Gentoo or FreeBSD based... as long as my video works and that's the determining factor since unfortunately there's an issue with the Linux kernel and PAM and who knows what else that's preventing me from properly using my OpenGL in my nVidia card  ... iPod likes FreeBSD better too, but that's most likely because OS X now has a FreeBSD 'backend' almost completely . Gotta love Apple. |
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Vanquirius
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1297
Location: Ethereal plains
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| yaneurabeya wrote: | | -Hardware kernel modules just work. This is most likely because Linus is but one man and the FreeBSD group has multiple people checking kernel development. End of story. |
Uh... Too tired to argue, but I beg to differ.
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Shadow Skill
Veteran
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| plbe wrote: | | @Stieltje ports has had what...20 something years to mature? portage has had what? a few years? EOF |
Would you like to use that argument to explain how Portage doesn't have a working reverse dependency mechanism?
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ktvoelker
n00b
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The only thing stopping me from using FreeBSD is that there doesn't seem to be a parallel-port Playstation-to-PC adapter driver for it, which I need to play StepMania. :D |
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Jake
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 1132
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sean_micken wrote: | | When you run FreeBSD on the desktop you will end up with a system full of GNU software running on a BSD kernel. |
No. All the BSDs are complete systems, userland and all. There's no BSD licensed replacement for GCC, but that's the only significant piece of userland from GNU. |
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake wrote: | | There's no BSD licensed replacement for GCC, but that's the only significant piece of userland from GNU. |
There's TenDRA but that's not as widely used or known...
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Jake
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 1132
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| codergeek42 wrote: | | Jake wrote: | | There's no BSD licensed replacement for GCC, but that's the only significant piece of userland from GNU. |
There's TenDRA but that's not as widely used or known... |
I remember the OpenBSD developers considering switching to it. Those guys are insanely anti-GNU. |
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Shadow Skill
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Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if some BSD users think all the BSD's should prepend GNU to thier names dur to the use of gcc?
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadow Skill wrote: | | I wonder if some BSD users think all the BSD's should prepend GNU to thier names dur to the use of gcc? |
That's not the reason Free Software advocates use the "GNU/" prefix when referring to the entire GNU/Linux operating system...
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yaneurabeya
Veteran
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 1754
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanquirius wrote: | | yaneurabeya wrote: | | -Hardware kernel modules just work. This is most likely because Linus is but one man and the FreeBSD group has multiple people checking kernel development. End of story. |
Uh... Too tired to argue, but I beg to differ. |
I also may be overgeneralizing in terms of Mac OS X junk. I won't argue [now] that maybe some features are better supported in Linux compared to FreeBSD, and vice versa, but in general it seems like FreeBSD is more solid =\. |
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Plexroth
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Who let the trolls in? |
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