look before you leap

SeJo · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:09 am Post subject: look before you leap

Hi all,

My current laptop (p3 1300MHz) just isn't capable of running my application server anymore, and as a developer i need a stable laptop that has some power... (because i'm not always in the immediate enviroment where i can connect to my testservers).

So i was considering (more and more) to buy a apple G4 1000 Powerbook (15")...

My question is: Does this baby has some computing power? (is there a comparisation table?), how many bogomips etc...

Would i do a good or a bad buy? and should i even use OSX or just install gentoo (like i always do)?

I've been using gentoo on x86 and sparc... both servers and desktops/laptops.

And i really don't want to change :-]...

have any good advice?

SeJo

ps if this is the wrong forum to post please accept my apolygies...
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stimuli · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:43 am Post subject:

I don't think, for raw computing power, a mac laptop is what you need. (Ever thought of sshing into a desktop instead?) That said, either the 1.25Ghz or 1.33 ghz models should be faster than the PC laptop.

Get one with radeon graphics acceleration as Nvidia drivers suck on linux/PPC. Radeon drivers are quite decent.

BTW, bogomips tend not to flatter PPC, generally a 1:1 ratio with clockspeed. Keep in mind however that bogomips are bogus, and thus don't really mean a thing.

SeJo · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:45 am Post subject:

i can't ssh into a desktop because i'm always working from a remote place where i can't access my desktops, and where there are definitely no other linux pc's.... (old conservative company)...

I was told that a mac is more powerfull then a x86...

shite i really thought that one would give me more power...

thx anyway
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sstacha · n00b Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 68

Just wanted to let you know that the newer radeon cards can't display graphics any higher than 16bit and even at 16bit it crops the screen no matter what your modeline is set to. Accelerated drivers are expected, but I am not sure when. I have been waiting since I bought my 17" powerbook (about 2months) for even a 2D driver that will work and be useable; as of 2.6.0-test7 that has not happened yet. I have, however, seen posts of people who have the nvida nv driver working in 2D 24bit mode. ( probably because the new nvida cards have been out for about 6 months now ) The downside is that since nvida will not share information on thier hardware there will probably never be an accelerated driver. With radeon eventually there will be both.

sstacha · n00b Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 68

Although I posted this to a separate thread, I wanted to update my post here. The newest beta development kernel has a radeon frame buffer 2d driver that will boot in 24 bit color. There are still problems with it that cause it to still not be completely useable past going into x to download the next beta kernel code, but they are definately closer than I thought to having a real solution. I will post to this group when I test that it fully works and the steps I took to get it there.

SeJo · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:44 pm Post subject:

OK,

i need to go to the shop next week... and i need to know...
if i buy me a p4 2.6 GHz laptop or a G4 1GHz (same amount ram and other things) with witch one will i last longer, and witch one is better??

I was told that the apple was better (and not by a apple salesman)...

for me this is an issue... pricewise and my needs

i have now a P3 1.3 GHz laptop, but it can't even startup my IDE anymore...
only 1 year and a half old...
I need to know is apple that better (more stable/power)... for you guyz? (Gentoo wise)
_________________
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers."

muteaid · n00b Joined: 12 Nov 2002 Posts: 14

In my expierence, my iBook 500mhz is noticebly "snappier" and more productive (more apps open running at full speed) then with OS X. Also my ibook is 2.5 years old and is still running great.

However, it seems you need a rather robust solution, and IMHO I think apple makes the best quality notebook that warrant the price, but linux support is not 100%(ie. binary drivers, wine, lilo).

Also, OS X X11 and Fink are both too slow for everyday use compared to gentoo. Portage is wonderful.

I think a new powerbook will be A LOT faster then your current P3, but you might be better off with a P4. You will run into unforseen benefits and disadvantages with PPC. (maybe get those new Athlon 64 notebooks, best of both worlds)

NewBlackDak · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 4:59 pm Post subject:

A PIV 2.6 or Athlon 2600+ for that matter will destroy any 1GHz Mac. I'm not knocking the PPC, because I like it. They were/are way behind in speed for a while. Great their X MHz is faster than x86 at same speed, but the x86 processors have been outpacing it by 2x for a while.
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Gentoo systems.
X2 4200+@2.6 - Athy
X2 3600+ - Myth
UltraSparc5 440 - sparcy

ozonator · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:25 am Post subject:

I think 'destroy' is much too strong a word. Whether a CPU shines can depend a lot on the app, and whether or not the code is of a type that can take advantage of architectural advantages in the ppc architecture, and has been compiled that way. A good example is the distributed.net client, which does one thing (attempt to crack something encrypted by brute-force checking of different keys), and is compiled and optimized for each CPU architectecture. For RC5-72, on a P-IV 2.6 it's about 3.7 million keys/s -- about as fast as a 450 MHz G4. On an Athlon at 2600 MHz it's around 6.6 million keys/s; on a 1 GHz G4 it's about 9.5 million keys/s; on a 1.8 GHz G5 it's around 13.4 million keys/s (see the dnet speed comparisons for these numbers and more). Clearly, for this sort of app, this code runs most efficiently (keys/MHz) on a G4, and the ppc architecture is the one doing the destroying, not the other way around.

Does this prove the ppc architecture is faster? No, not at all. I'd agree that with the exception of the G5, x86 right now has the overall lead -- but that's in the category of 'how fast my computer feels generally'. Some apps will scream on x86, others will fly just as much or more on ppc, but overall, x86 is now faster for some reasonable collection of benchmarks. And, a lot will have to do with other parts of your machine -- the speed of your RAM and system bus, the speed of your disk, graphics issues, etc. Can a 1 GHz G4 'feel' as fast as a P-IV 2.4-2.6? Yes, definitely, for some things; on other things (likely more things), the P-IV will lead. Frankly, after setting up some P-IV 2.4 machines some months ago, they didn't "feel" much faster than a P-III 800 desktop I used around the same time. I'm sure different RAM, chipset, etc. would have made a difference, but my point remains that in speed comparisons, there are so many variables that the answer is almost always clarifiable with "it depends."

I agree with muteaid that Apple makes great quality laptops (for most people, it's definitely the best value in a laptop, for both performance and longevity). I also agree that Linux is much snappier than OS X on the same hardware, and that Linux on ppc does reveal the odd thing that just doesn't work as well on ppc (-O3 being a bit unstable on a G4 is a good example). So, unless you know that the apps you're using would definitely benefit from the architectural advantages of a ppc, my thought would be that if you're running very demanding apps, look at x86 first. Among those, IBM makes really solid machines, the only ones I'd put in the same quality class as Apple's -- maybe start by looking at the ThinkPad options.

As for x86 CPU in a laptop, the question for me would be whether to get a Pentium M or a P-IV -- everything I've seen indicates that a P-M is significantly faster per MHz than a P-IV, while consuming less power (i.e., longer battery life). I'd likely go for a higher-end P-M than any P-IV, then, and keep an eye on RAM/bus speeds at the same time.

One more thing: if you're always hungry for CPU and RAM, well, obsolescence is always immanent. If you're looking for something that will "last longer", well, how long it will last will depend more on what you're running. If that needs a lot more CPU in a year, well, that might be how you have to define obsolete. Ask yourself, what changed since last year? Your P-III isn't any slower, so it must have been the demands you put on it. Will you be increasing those demands again this year? If so, it might be hard to guarantee the longevity of whatever you buy. Best of luck.

NewBlackDak · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:15 am Post subject:

One other thing I've noticed. 10.3 is faster on the same hardware than 10.2 wich was faster than 10.1.
_________________
Gentoo systems.
X2 4200+@2.6 - Athy
X2 3600+ - Myth
UltraSparc5 440 - sparcy