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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3151
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 Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And why is the user not supposed to access ipv6 addresses directly, but the user is supposed to access ipv4 addresses directly? |
1) ipv6 addresses are so long they're impractical for human use.
2) http since version 1.1 requires host: header. Although IP is a valid value, using a domain name instead allows for sharing a single socket by multiple services (websites), this is also incorporated into TLS via SNI extension, and I suppose the vast majority of websites actually depends on this feature.
3) ipv4 was designed by its users with their own needs and skills in mind. Ipv6 was designed to stay out of mind of idiots on the internet.
| Quote: | | Anyway, I didn't get git-daemon to work |
Did it fail in any particular way or do you just not like the idea of running git-daemon?
I found it very easy to enable, even though it wasn't completely ready out of the box. Default script makes it report errors to syslog.
| Quote: | I got vsftpd to work...
...with local users only. |
I suppose when you login as local user, it acts on behalf of said user and drops you into user's home?
What user does the server itself use? What does it use for anonymous user? (nobody:nobody?)
Does this user have permisions to enter your home? Does it have permissions to enter and read ~stefan/ftp?
Anything in syslog? |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| fedeliallalinea wrote: | | I think it is because of the fact, where the site has a lot of text, that we are used to reading pages in portrait orientation. |
All of my monitors have been landscape. I do my best to avoid the even shorter "video" style monitors. Those are awful.
The "portrait" rule is fine when it makes sense. In the example of fgo, there's a lot more than text to consider. The user information (currently) takes up space on th left side. When you add quote or code blocks to a post, that further reduces the space available for text. It's the general application of a rule without consideration for the specific use that I find to be the oddity.
Somewhat like the "rule" to not use 100% black text on a 100% white background. As a result, there are some horrifically low contrast grey on grey websites out there. I find I need to either use reader mode or play whack-a-mole trying to make it readable. Similarly with the recent trend toward black backgrounds. I wonder if the general (non-web) design style trend of using more black is related to that.
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: | | Quote: | | And why is the user not supposed to access ipv6 addresses directly, but the user is supposed to access ipv4 addresses directly? |
1) ipv6 addresses are so long they're impractical for human use.
2) http since version 1.1 requires host: header. Although IP is a valid value, using a domain name instead allows for sharing a single socket by multiple services (websites), this is also incorporated into TLS via SNI extension, and I suppose the vast majority of websites actually depends on this feature.
3) ipv4 was designed by its users with their own needs and skills in mind. Ipv6 was designed to stay out of mind of idiots on the internet.
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So the reason is "it isn't pretty".
Might I ask who those idiots might be?
| szatox wrote: |
| Quote: | | Anyway, I didn't get git-daemon to work |
Did it fail in any particular way or do you just not like the idea of running git-daemon?
I found it very easy to enable, even though it wasn't completely ready out of the box. Default script makes it report errors to syslog.
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I didn't check the log.
After checking it and creating /var/git(it wasn't there, likely because I don't use tmpfiles), it shows up in netstat.
| Code: | # netstat -nplt
Active Internet connections (only servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State PID/Program name
tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:9418 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 8981/git-daemon
tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:14430 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1371/qbittorrent-no
tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:23 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1232/utelnetd
tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:22 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 24568/sshd: /usr/sb
tcp 0 0 10.0.15.250:14430 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1371/qbittorrent-no
tcp6 0 0 ::1:14430 :::* LISTEN 1371/qbittorrent-no
tcp6 0 0 :::9418 :::* LISTEN 8981/git-daemon
tcp6 0 0 :::22 :::* LISTEN 24568/sshd: /usr/sb
tcp6 0 0 :::21 :::* LISTEN 27750/vsftpd
tcp6 0 0 2a02:2f0d:b206:af:14430 :::* LISTEN 1371/qbittorrent-no
tcp6 0 0 fe80::493:6545:ff:14430 :::* LISTEN 1371/qbittorrent-no
tcp6 0 0 :::8080 :::* LISTEN 1371/qbittorrent-no |
But I can't connect to it with my browser.
| szatox wrote: |
| Quote: | I got vsftpd to work...
...with local users only. |
I suppose when you login as local user, it acts on behalf of said user and drops you into user's home?
What user does the server itself use? What does it use for anonymous user? (nobody:nobody?)
Does this user have permisions to enter your home? Does it have permissions to enter and read ~stefan/ftp?
Anything in syslog? |
The server runs as root, so no permission issues.
Don't know how to check what it uses for anonymous users.
I do get dropped into the user's home directory, but I can cd outside of it.
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3151
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So the reason is "it isn't pretty". |
To a large extent, yes. The other part is that, over the years, the expectations have changed.
| Quote: | | Might I ask who those idiots might be? |
Why, the average internet users.
People with any kind of knowledge regarding computers are a tiny fraction of all users down from 100% in the beginning, and the number of users with any kind of technical capabilities (those who could learn about computers but chose something else instead) is not impressive either.
| Quote: | | After checking it and creating /var/git(it wasn't there, likely because I don't use tmpfiles), it shows up in netstat. [...] But I can't connect to it with my browser. |
git clone git://hostname/repo
Unless you want to share code over a dumb transport. Git comes with an example hook you can enable to update files hosted via http server after push to a repo. Check out .git/hooks in any git repository.
But this is done with a hook and usually a http server and not with git-daemon.
Git also has a pretty good documentation regarding hooks, and sharing (inluding git over http via CGI), and a bunch of other advanced features |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | fedeliallalinea wrote: | | I think it is because of the fact, where the site has a lot of text, that we are used to reading pages in portrait orientation. |
All of my monitors have been landscape. I do my best to avoid the even shorter "video" style monitors. Those are awful.
The "portrait" rule is fine when it makes sense. In the example of fgo, there's a lot more than text to consider. The user information (currently) takes up space on th left side. When you add quote or code blocks to a post, that further reduces the space available for text. It's the general application of a rule without consideration for the specific use that I find to be the oddity.
Somewhat like the "rule" to not use 100% black text on a 100% white background. As a result, there are some horrifically low contrast grey on grey websites out there. I find I need to either use reader mode or play whack-a-mole trying to make it readable. Similarly with the recent trend toward black backgrounds. I wonder if the general (non-web) design style trend of using more black is related to that. |
I for one like dark modes because they are easier on the eyes.
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 30965
Location: here
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | The "portrait" rule is fine when it makes sense. In the example of fgo, there's a lot more than text to consider. The user information (currently) takes up space on th left side. When you add quote or code blocks to a post, that further reduces the space available for text. It's the general application of a rule without consideration for the specific use that I find to be the oddity. |
In my opinion on "large" monitors (27'') and resolution >1920x1080 (e.g., 2560×1440) even the site with 100% width becomes annoying.
Perhaps a css rule could be made for different resolutions.
_________________
Questions are guaranteed in life; Answers aren't. |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21724
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. CSS rules can be made conditional on the width of the viewport, or a rule using max-width could cap the width of a key element, preventing it from occupying the full width of the viewport even when nothing else needs the space. The latter is how some news sites obnoxiously imitate on screen the old newspaper layout of line wrapping every dozen or so words. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| fedeliallalinea wrote: | In my opinion on "large" monitors (27'') and resolution >1920x1080 (e.g., 2560×1440) even the site with 100% width becomes annoying.
Perhaps a css rule could be made for different resolutions. |
24" is the largest I've used, and I thought it was too big. I wanted it farther away than it could physically go on the desk, and at that point, it might need a larger font, defeating some of the supposed benefit. Are people really using their browser maximized across >=27" monitors? A maximized browser on a 27" monitor with a website using the approximate article width of 80 characters, that's a lot of empty space on the sides of the article. That seems like a "doc, it hurts when I do this" scenario, in which the doc replies, "stop doing that". For that to be the default behavior seems very strange. I'm obviously the odd one, since it seems to be normal and perceived to be the definitive correct solution. I'm looking forward to whatever the next such solution is.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 30965
Location: here
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Are people really using their browser maximized across >=27" monitors? |
Here I am  . I use two 27'' 2560×1440 monitors in landscape and one 24'' 1920x1080 in portrait for read documentation.
| pjp wrote: | | I'm obviously the odd one, since it seems to be normal and perceived to be the definitive correct solution. I'm looking forward to whatever the next such solution is. |
There are no perfect solutions but good compromises, here a max-width would be enough to please everyone.
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Questions are guaranteed in life; Answers aren't. |
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pietinger
Moderator
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4248
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| fedeliallalinea wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | Are people really using their browser maximized across >=27" monitors? |
Here I am . I use two 27'' 2560×1440 monitors in landscape and one 24'' 1920x1080 in portrait for read documentation. |
... hmm ... I am old and need reading glasses ... that's why i have a 43" screen (4k) ... and yes, my browser is set to maximum size ...  |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I suggest we start measuring screen sizes in burgers or bald eagles.
Do you all not like centimeters?
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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pietinger
Moderator
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4248
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| stefan11111 wrote: | | Do you all not like centimeters? |
Historically, monitor sizes have always been specified in inches. Only laws (at least in Germany) obligate to specify the size in centimeters ... it's the same as with HP (in germany: PS) and KW ... PS was there from the beginning ... and I hate conversions ... I know how much PS my car has, but dont ask me how much KW it has |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Still didn't get the anonymous ftp access to work, but I created a guest user and enabed chroot jail.
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I've sorted some things out and decided to finally open my firewall.
Ip address is: 2a02:2f0d:b206:af00:a2fb:109c:ea4:3302
USER:guest
PASS:guest
To access it, one can put ftp://[2a02:2f0d:b206:af00:a2fb:109c:ea4:3302] into their browser's address bar, or do the /etc/hosts alias mentioned above.
Alternatively, just use the ftp command.
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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pa4wdh
l33t
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I can confirm it works, nice. By the way, i can highly recommend the lftp client, is has quite some tricks to give you a more shell-like experience. My browser (firefox 102.13) doesn't understand ftp anymore.
I've used vsftpd anonymous only, can you share your vsftpd.conf to see if we can get anonymous access going?
_________________
The gentoo way of bringing peace to the world:
USE="-war" emerge --newuse @world
My shared code repository: https://code.pa4wdh.nl.eu.org
Music, Free as in Freedom: https://www.jamendo.com |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54317
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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stefan11111,
WFM but FTP is so last millennium :)
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| pa4wdh wrote: | I can confirm it works, nice. By the way, i can highly recommend the lftp client, is has quite some tricks to give you a more shell-like experience. My browser (firefox 102.13) doesn't understand ftp anymore.
I've used vsftpd anonymous only, can you share your vsftpd.conf to see if we can get anonymous access going? |
| Code: | $ cat /etc/vsftpd.conf
listen=NO
listen_ipv6=YES
local_enable=YES
anonymous_enable=YES
write_enable=NO
chroot_local_user=YES
secure_chroot_dir=/home/stefan/ftp
allow_writeable_chroot=YES
anon_root=/home/stefan/ftp |
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | stefan11111,
WFM but FTP is so last millennium  |
It may be old, but it works without a browser and doesn't need GB's of ram. Not to mention, no javascript.
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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pa4wdh
l33t
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Webservers can also be very small, for example thttpd or althttpd
When i try an anonymous login this error might give a hint:
| Code: | | 500 OOPS: vsftpd: refusing to run with writable root inside chroot() |
What are the permissions on /home/stefan/ftp?
_________________
The gentoo way of bringing peace to the world:
USE="-war" emerge --newuse @world
My shared code repository: https://code.pa4wdh.nl.eu.org
Music, Free as in Freedom: https://www.jamendo.com |
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Leonardo.b
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Oct 2020
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I never bothered to configure FTP to work with my firewall. |
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3151
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I never bothered to configure FTP to work with my firewall. |
Just use passive mode instead.
| Quote: | | WFM but FTP is so last millennium |
Everything has its uses. I used ftp for ad-hock sharing files between windows and linux.
Git does have more convenient options though.
Anyway, since more than 10 people declared they share some code, perhaps it would be a good idea to make a subforum which could serve as a catalogue?
Aren't you guys curious what fellow members are working on? |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: |
Anyway, since more than 10 people declared they share some code, perhaps it would be a good idea to make a subforum which could serve as a catalogue?
Aren't you guys curious what fellow members are working on? |
Would be nice to have that.
I expected most people here to at least have their overlays or some small projects hosted somewhere.
_________________
My overlay: https://github.com/stefan11111/stefan_overlay
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54317
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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szatox,
We can create a new sub forum if there is demand, demonstrated by posts on a new topic that does not really fit elsewhere.
Meanwhile, It looks like Gentoo chat or Other Things Open Source would be possible homes.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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