Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
KVM and virtualizing Windows
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Other Things Gentoo
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The Doctor
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 1543

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: KVM and virtualizing Windows Reply with quote

Basically the situation is that I have a new box and several old windows machines laying around. The new box doesn't include windows. Since it might come in handy to have windows available I would like to visualize my old windows installs without paying extra money to MS. I can't seem to find any clear answers on if I can do this or not.

I have an two computers which had xp and vista on them although both no longer do and a vista and windows 7 boxes that still have windows installed, although I won't have physical access for a few weeks. All of these are factory instillations. Can any of these be used for visualization purposes?

Basically, if I can the question is if it is legal and if so how to do it.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Princess Nell
Guru
Guru


Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No conclusive answer here.

There are tutorials out there how to vitualise an existing install. Best case, it just works. Next best, 'doze asks for reactivation and it works. Next best, too many hw changes and it will not allow reactivation.

Worst case, virtualised install won't even boot because of drivers missing for the new (virtual) hw. There are remedies for that, supposedly, but I could never get it to work, at least in the case of moving an image from one hypervisor to another.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 1543

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply.

I was kind of afraid it was going to be something like that. I guess I'll try it out once I have access to the boxes again.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schorsch_76
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MS Eula thing is very difficult to answer. Following things i know:

It depends on the location where you life. e.g. In Germany (where i live) i could use a system builder version of windows. I can do with it what ever i like. But only run it on one machine. Be it virtual or physical. I can switch then around, when i buy a new machine, i can use this licence. But this only affects Systembuilder Licences and Germany.

On preinstalled versions of licences, OEM ones, this does _NOT_ apply. Outside of Germany there are other laws, maybe even stricter ones.

That is the reason, why i recommend my friends, when they buy windows, to buy SB versions of it. The OEM Version from their old machine, they are not allowed to take to the new PC.

[1] http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/de/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/windows-licensing-for-personal-use.aspx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 1417

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done it, and I still can't give you an answer.

It depends on the exact license you have.

Seriously, call Microsoft. I was allowed to do the ones I asked about, and basically I'm under the impression that they're not going to argue about old hardware being virtualized. But they wanted to hear about each box and what Windows was on it, serial numbers, etc.

OEM Windows will just plain not work. This only works with a real Windows that came in its own box, OEM versions are designed to work only with a very few boxes.

Microsoft has a phone number for advice on which license to buy. These guys can't even sell you a Windows so you aren't pressured one way or another. Be completely honest about it, one thing they know is that if you called this number you're TRYING to be legal, and they'll give you the best advice they can.

One thing that might be an issue is whether you're technically able to convert. We wound up going with VMware because I couldn't convert the images to KVM, they just wouldn't boot because of lack of hardware support. The image was not bootable on KVM.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fernan82
n00b
n00b


Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether it'll work depends on the OEM installation. Some are just a regular Windows CD with customized logos (some Dells) and an OEM key, others are customized so they only run on specific hardware. There's even a hack to turn OEM CDs into non-OEM ones by just editing a text file. You can also buy OEM versions on ebay and you get a regular Windows CD and an IDE cable of something of that sort and the license is legal as long as you use that cable on the PC. But even if it works it's still illegal as with an OEM license you're only allowed to use it with the equipment it came with.

I've done it though, not with a VM but to a new box. It asked me for a new activation key and wouldn't accept the old one so I called the activation line and told them that my motherboard broke and I had to replace it and they gave me an activation code. If you tell them you're virtualizing or using a completely new system they'll probably won't let you activate it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
frostschutz
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 2464
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just reinstalled it in KVM, after I abandoned dualboot/gaming. It works fine that way.
_________________
Linux-User @ VServer (Debian), Desktop (Gentoo), Netbook (Ubuntu), Router (OpenWRT), PDA (Cacko), Smartphone (Android)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2500
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: KVM and virtualizing Windows Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
All of these are factory instillations.


On what machine, ie Dell, HP, other, etc?

Quote:
Can any of these be used for visualization purposes?


Possibly, depends on the answer to the previous question.
Some manf's put the windows installer system on another partition on the disk when it was installed
so that it can be reinstalled in case of major fubaring.

Quote:
Basically, if I can the question is if it is legal and if so how to do it.


The legality is murky, MS would likely say no, but they want to sell you a new windows package.
Not sure what any manf would say about it, as they already paid MS a license fee for the original computer
including the disk it was installed on.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - amd64-multilib, 3.15.9-zen, glibc-2.17, gcc-4.7.3-r1, eudev
xorg-server-1.16, openbox w/lxpanel, nouveau, oss4(2010)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 1543

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On what machine, ie Dell, HP, other, etc?
The two surviving installs are on HP (win 7) and Sony (vista) I think.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2500
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On what machine, ie Dell, HP, other, etc?
The two surviving installs are on HP (win 7) and Sony (vista) I think.


My daughter has had 2 hp machines, vista and now win7, they do have a "rescue" partition,
but not sure if it is a full windows installer pkg, as I've never needed to use it.
They do have their own drivers, etc for their hardware, nvidia cards, etc.
Not sure if virtualizing the existing physical partition would work. Only way to know for sure is try it.

To me, I would consider it fair usage, since you wouldn't be using the same software on two different "computers" at the same time
and you paid the MS license fee when you bought the original computer.
But I'm not a lawyer, don't even play one on tv. :lol:
Go with your conscience.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - amd64-multilib, 3.15.9-zen, glibc-2.17, gcc-4.7.3-r1, eudev
xorg-server-1.16, openbox w/lxpanel, nouveau, oss4(2010)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 1417

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: KVM and virtualizing Windows Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
...
The legality is murky, MS would likely say no, but they want to sell you a new windows package.
Not sure what any manf would say about it, as they already paid MS a license fee for the original computer
including the disk it was installed on.


No, the legality is not murky. It just depends on which particular license you're using.

I've done this, and called Microsoft to find out what the requirements were from their perspective. They were extremely helpful.

Microsoft knows all about virtual machines, anything from their own virtualization platform to VMware to Parallels to KVM/QEMU to pretty much anything else you can think of. They know all about business. There's a very good chance that Microsoft would not care if you virtualize your old hardware.

They certainly know about old servers sitting around that you still need but don't have room for anymore. This has to be a major portion of the use cases for virtualization.

The biggest issue is whether you can actually get the OEM Windows to work on KVM. I'm betting it's not going to work because of the built-in protections coded into typical OEM Windows licenses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Other Things Gentoo All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum