Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
The simplicity of the Middle East conflict
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

The Middle East Problem

Facts > Hate propaganda
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koala Kid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best solution to all parts
_________________
Digital Gunfire
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The Middle East Problem

Facts > Hate propaganda


he spent very little time on the division of israel. My guess is canadian, brits and americans wouldn't like it if the UN gave have the country away.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cazort
Guru
Guru


Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 343
Location: Lancaster, PA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
The Middle East Problem

Facts > Hate propaganda


he spent very little time on the division of israel. My guess is canadian, brits and americans wouldn't like it if the UN gave have the country away.


I agree. I think the video side-steps the way Israel was formed, dividing up land that other people were living in, and taking it by force...and more land being taken by force later in the 6-day war.

I think the video itself borders on a form of hate speech, because it makes extreme negative generalizations about Arabs, Muslims, and people involved in the Palestinian side of the conflict. The video states the conflict can be summed up with "one side wants the other side dead". I've talked to people active in a number of campus organizations to promote Palestinian interests, and I don't know anyone personally who advocates violence--everyone I've come into contact with personally, in my social network, universally renounces violence. The concerns I hear are that people want land given back, land that was taken from people by force.

It's an ugly situation...if you look at that region, you find that most, if not all land, has at some point been taken by force, over and over again throughout history. So there may be no easy solution. But I think that if you don't acknowledge that the modern state of Israel was formed by forcibly evicting people from the land, your narrative is going to be ignoring a very basic truth of the situation.
_________________
Alex Zorach | Teacology | RateTea | Why This Way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zixnub
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Brasschaat, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this conflict is very well described by the video. It's clear language and complete absence of perspective makes it portray an accurate story of the current conflict. In fact, the video does such a great job explaining the complexity of the conflict, it could be shown to toddlers so they can make a well informed and completely unbiased opinion.
_________________
https://github.com/Zubnix/trinityshell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFOf1ezyfI
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is hilarious. The guy who looks like Seinfeld is great. He reluctantly admits "Yeah, my name's David."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
That is hilarious. The guy who looks like Seinfeld is great. He reluctantly admits "Yeah, my name's David."

Yeah poor guy. :lol:
There is the one when he dresses up in KKK outfit and drives around in black neighborhood. Ari Shaffir. :D
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?


The OP was hardly balanced. He pretends not to oversimplify, but then gets the world championship trophy for it.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zixnub
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Brasschaat, Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?


The OP was hardly balanced. He pretends not to oversimplify, but then gets the world championship trophy for it.


but it's the world's most simple conflict!

you have one side: bad
you have the other side: good

wha't not to simple about it?
_________________
https://github.com/Zubnix/trinityshell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?


The OP was hardly balanced. He pretends not to oversimplify, but then gets the world championship trophy for it.


but it's the world's most simple conflict!

you have one side: bad
you have the other side: good

wha't not to simple about it?

Agreed. Not to mention that it's universal logic applied by both sides. What's not to like?
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?


The OP was hardly balanced. He pretends not to oversimplify, but then gets the world championship trophy for it.

It sounds like you're complaining that I said the OP was balanced. I thought I said the opposite.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?


The OP was hardly balanced. He pretends not to oversimplify, but then gets the world championship trophy for it.

It sounds like you're complaining that I said the OP was balanced. I thought I said the opposite.


yeah, i know. didn't mean to come across that way.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

cazort wrote:
juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
The Middle East Problem

Facts > Hate propaganda


he spent very little time on the division of israel. My guess is canadian, brits and americans wouldn't like it if the UN gave have the country away.


I agree. I think the video side-steps the way Israel was formed, dividing up land that other people were living in, and taking it by force...and more land being taken by force later in the 6-day war.

I think the video itself borders on a form of hate speech, because it makes extreme negative generalizations about Arabs, Muslims, and people involved in the Palestinian side of the conflict. The video states the conflict can be summed up with "one side wants the other side dead". I've talked to people active in a number of campus organizations to promote Palestinian interests, and I don't know anyone personally who advocates violence--everyone I've come into contact with personally, in my social network, universally renounces violence. The concerns I hear are that people want land given back, land that was taken from people by force.

It's an ugly situation...if you look at that region, you find that most, if not all land, has at some point been taken by force, over and over again throughout history. So there may be no easy solution. But I think that if you don't acknowledge that the modern state of Israel was formed by forcibly evicting people from the land, your narrative is going to be ignoring a very basic truth of the situation.

Bullshit. Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, and many Muslim States, including Iran, have publicly stated they do not recognize Israel, and their intent is the destruction of the country.

How can one have hate speech when it concerns muzzies? They are ignorant, superstitious xenophobes that are a waste of space for the rest of us.
_________________
I am not young enough to know everything.
- Oscar Wilde
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?


The OP was hardly balanced. He pretends not to oversimplify, but then gets the world championship trophy for it.

It sounds like you're complaining that I said the OP was balanced. I thought I said the opposite.


yeah, i know. didn't mean to come across that way.

Do ten pushups.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16117
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

cazort wrote:
I think the video side-steps the way Israel was formed, dividing up land that other people were living in, and taking it by force...and more land being taken by force later in the 6-day war.
Historically speaking, it wasn't their land. So how long before Israel's ownership becomes the defacto of being? By some measures, 19 years is a generation, so it has been almost 3.5 generations since it was created. And Palestinians have demonstrated time and again that they aren't interested in peace. And that ignores other regional genocidal evils.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys you ought to know better than to attempt to sound sincere when engaging into an argument along the lines of "who was there first".
Just accept the fact that you live in US which is sometimes referred to as "Jewmerica", and your naturally more biased (or attuned if you wanna put it that way) to cheer for Israel. I mean I find Islam fucked up and horrifying as well, and I grew up surrounded by it and have friends and some family there. It's OK.
You can say "because we can" but you cannot keep your halo. Nobody is perfect.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16117
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Nobody is perfect.
Except Palestinians. Or at least those who live in Neverland and ignore every atrocity committed by the terrorists see it that way.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Guys you ought to know better than to attempt to sound sincere when engaging into an argument along the lines of "who was there first".
Just accept the fact that you live in US which is sometimes referred to as "Jewmerica", and your naturally more biased (or attuned if you wanna put it that way) to cheer for Israel. I mean I find Islam fucked up and horrifying as well, and I grew up surrounded by it and have friends and some family there. It's OK.
You can say "because we can" but you cannot keep your halo. Nobody is perfect.

The Jews were there long before the Arabs. That's just simple historical fact. But, you know who was there before the Jews? The Canaanites. And, you know who was there first? The Ethiopians, about 160,000 years ago. So we should give all of the Levant to Ethiopia. And before that, there were Neanderthals. And before that, there were Homo Habilis and Homo Erectus and Homos with Erections.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
And before that, there were Homo Habilis and Homo Erectus and Homos with Erections.


:lol: And I think you may have found a candidate that the surrounding Arab states might hate having as neighbors even more than the Jews living there.
_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The crazyness comes from both sides claiming "god given rights" and shizzle. Monkeys with mental issues.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

cazort wrote:

I agree. I think the video side-steps the way Israel was formed, dividing up land that other people were living in, and taking it by force...[/url].


Yeah, the British and French really made a fine mess of dividing up the Ottoman empire after World War I. A damn fine mess, indeed.

The British should get special recognition for their spectacular mismanagement of the Palestinian Mandate, which did a fantastic job setting the stage for the current conflict. They made promises for selfish gains to both the Arabs and Jews living in the area after World War I about how the land would be divided up. Then they hightailed it out of the area after World War II without really fulfilling any of the conflicting promises. It was really a masterful text-book case for anyone studying how to start a conflict between two ethnic groups.

European and Russian xenophobia and racism reaching a fever pitch in the 19th and 20th century with their bouts of pogroms and outright genocide were also an excellent catalyst to flame the Zionist movement into action. It's funny how nobody really gave a shit when those Jewish ex-pats came flooding down from Eastern Europe buying up what a lot of Arabs in the area thought of as useless land in the then Ottoman ruled Nablus Sanjak and surrounding areas.
_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4185
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

ratmonkey wrote:
cazort wrote:

I agree. I think the video side-steps the way Israel was formed, dividing up land that other people were living in, and taking it by force...[/url].


Yeah, the British and French really made a fine mess of dividing up the Ottoman empire after World War I. A damn fine mess, indeed.

The British should get special recognition for their spectacular mismanagement of the Palestinian Mandate, which did a fantastic job setting the stage for the current conflict. They made promises for selfish gains to both the Arabs and Jews living in the area after World War I about how the land would be divided up. Then they hightailed it out of the area after World War II without really fulfilling any of the conflicting promises. It was really a masterful text-book case for anyone studying how to start a conflict between two ethnic groups.

European and Russian xenophobia and racism reaching a fever pitch in the 19th and 20th century with their bouts of pogroms and outright genocide were also an excellent catalyst to flame the Zionist movement into action. It's funny how nobody really gave a shit when those Jewish ex-pats came flooding down from Eastern Europe buying up what a lot of Arabs in the area thought of as useless land in the then Ottoman ruled Nablus Sanjak and surrounding areas.
don't forget the terrorist attacks by the jews on the british forces to force the creation of Israel ;) (quite often forgotten by all, especially Israelis. The irony a nation created out of terrorism is themselves plagued by it is not lost on me :) ).

On the topic of the Ottoman empire... imagine if it wasn't broken up. All that oil in one empires control... WW2 would have been decided earlier depending on the side that allied with - imagine if it was Germany? Hindsight and coulda woulda shoulda is lovely
_________________
A free press is the unsleeping guardian of every other right that free men prize; it is the most dangerous foe of tyranny. Where men have the habit of liberty, the Press will continue to be the vigilant guardian of the rights of the ordinary citizen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
On the topic of the Ottoman empire... imagine if it wasn't broken up. All that oil in one empires control... WW2 would have been decided earlier depending on the side that allied with - imagine if it was Germany? Hindsight and coulda woulda shoulda is lovely
What do you mean, germany won anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytnINw6kqoE
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum