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owemeacent
n00b
Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 32
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 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: Gentoo/HURD?? |
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| I know this is something that Gentoo tried to do in the past and it failed, but the only way anyone is ever going to accomplish anything productive and/or useful is if they try and try again till they succeed. Gentoo is the perfect distribution for HURD to be on. Gentoo is just portage( is that right?) with a kernel and GNU utilities. Gentoo uses Linux or kFreeBSD, which in my opinion, which hopefully will not be used against me here, that a BSD kernel is not an ideal kernel for anything except servers and really old computers, again, only in my opinion. But it shows that Gentoo is portable to many platforms, think that HURD is stable enough for maybe desktop use, I mean, debian does it, why can't we? Maybe hopefully one of the Gentoo board reads this and decides it's a good idea, but I can only hope. But what bad can come out of trying? Like I'm not a system programmer or anything, but I do understand programming concepts, but I don't think it's that hard. |
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ryao
Retired Dev
Joined: 27 Feb 2012
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Gentoo FreeBSD uses FreeBSD's userland. It is not GNU/kFreeBSD. |
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AgBr
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Just out of curiosity: Are you interested in it as an academical exercise or are you seeing any real benefits? |
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nlsa8z6zoz7lyih3ap
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 388
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Just out of curiosity: Are you interested in it as an academical exercise or are you seeing any real benefits? |
I would like to give my opinion on this too:
Initially I see it as an academic exercise, but my hope is that there would be real benefits in the long term. I believe that Hurd's micro-kernel design is better than that of the monolithic kernel, even if their is some slight performance penalty.
Question: Could I run debian Hurd in qemu-kvm (Gentoo host with Linux kernel)? |
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owemeacent
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I see it has very important real life benefits. I do think that a microkernel architecture greatly imporoved stablility(except how AmigaOS used to do it), and we might be able to bring it up to speeds as fast as linux if we do some tinkering or if people actually use it so the GNU guys actually hurry up and make a stable version. |
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nlsa8z6zoz7lyih3ap
Guru
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 388
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Question: Could I run debian Hurd in qemu-kvm (Gentoo host with Linux kernel)? |
The answer is yes. See the debian hurd web page for instructions.
I have successfully installed debian hurd to qemu-kvm but have failed to install their desktop environment.
In my searches I learnt that Richard Stallman no longer considers Hurd a priority item.
While I personally like the idea of Hurd, I suspect that it may not be going anyway very quickly. |
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owemeacent
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I learnt that Richard Stallman no longer considers Hurd a priority item. |
Yea, but Richard Stallman isn't a god, he might be wrong, it might be the best thing that ever happened to the software ccommunity, who knows? We won't unless we port a good system to the HURD.
There are some problems with the HURD that would be considered chronic, like the kernel it uses, the Mach is extremely old. But it's stable enough for use. It's just that the HURD servers need to be stable enough, which I think they are. I think that after we get a stable HURD release, put ext4 on it, SMP, and A LOT more drivers. After that, we could think about getting another microkernel, if there isn't, we make our own. It shouldn't be that hard. It just required alot of design. But hopefully, if we work together and we work hard, we will make it. But to get enough hands on it, I think we need a Gentoo port of HURD, with some of the best Gentoo developesrs, and they are some of the best of any linux distro. |
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nlsa8z6zoz7lyih3ap
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 388
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But hopefully, if we work together and we work hard, we will make it. But to get enough hands on it, I think we need a Gentoo port of HURD, with some of the best Gentoo developesrs, and they are some of the best of any linux distro. |
I hope that your project attracts the interest of qualified developers and succeeds. However I am not someone who would be able to cintrubte to its success. |
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owemeacent
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I'm not a programmer, yet. I'm just trying to give the idea some momentum. I would gladly run it and report bugs though. |
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Tractor Girl
Apprentice
Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| nlsa8z6zoz7lyih3ap wrote: |
In my searches I learnt that Richard Stallman no longer considers Hurd a priority item. |
This is interesting, can post some link?
| owemeacent wrote: | | Yea, but Richard Stallman isn't a god |
This is blasphemy! Of course he is! 
In the name of the holy church of emacs I excommunicate thee 
Anyway I also think that Hurd would be perfect companion for Gentoo, it's such a shame that this project was dropped. |
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nlsa8z6zoz7lyih3ap
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is interesting, can post some link? |
http://interviews.slashdot.org/story/14/05/05/2012218/richard-stallman-answers-your-questions
| Quote: | | Anyway I also think that Hurd would be perfect companion for Gentoo, it's such a shame that this project was dropped. |
Perhaps the source code from debian/hurd would help any team trying the same project for gentoo. At least that would provide code that compiles and works with hurd. |
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owemeacent
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Perhaps the source code from debian/hurd would help any team trying the same project for gentoo. At least that would provide code that compiles and works with hurd. |
I don't think that it will be as good as if they Gentoo guys bootstrapped HURD to the GNU userland themselves, maybe a new Gentoo/HURD stage1. That would be exciting. |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 772
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| owemeacent wrote: | | Quote: | | I learnt that Richard Stallman no longer considers Hurd a priority item. |
Yea, but Richard Stallman isn't a god, |
Why has he got a beard then? |
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owemeacent
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Why has he got a beard then? |
Don't forget, Osama bin Ladin, Karl Marx, and the Supreme Leader of Iran all had beards bigger than RMS. You would'nt want them as gods |
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mrbassie
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Joined: 31 May 2013
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| owemeacent wrote: | | Quote: |
Why has he got a beard then? |
Don't forget, Osama bin Ladin, Karl Marx, and the Supreme Leader of Iran all had beards bigger than RMS. You would'nt want them as gods |
Beards aside, why put Marx in such company?
Anyway, I wouldn't want a god to exist in the first place, I've actually read the bible. I'm not in favour of faith endorsed slavery, condoned rape, forced marriage, forced marriage and slavery as a consequence of being raped, torture, genocide, deliberately, unnecessarily cruel executions etc. |
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steveL
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mrbassie wrote: | | I'm not in favour of faith endorsed slavery, condoned rape, forced marriage, forced marriage and slavery as a consequence of being raped, torture, genocide, deliberately, unnecessarily cruel executions etc. |
Sing it sister ;-)
"Use the Force, Luke.." ;p |
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mrbassie wrote: | | owemeacent wrote: | | Don't forget, Osama bin Ladin, Karl Marx, and the Supreme Leader of Iran all had beards bigger than RMS. You would'nt want them as gods |
Beards aside, why put Marx in such company? |
mrbassie ... besides the incredible level of intellectual dishonesty (how else can "The Poverty of Philosophy" or "The Holy Family" be explained) there is the self-referential logic that constitutes Dialectical Materialism, the spectral nonsense of "commodity fetishism", and the authoritarianism of The Communist Manifesto (providing the model for later experiments in "real socialism" ... and yes, I would argue that Stalinism is not an aberration, but a consequence). Now, the grouping of illustrious names is always arbitrary (indeed, how we judge such persons is often subjective) but Marx isn't some overlooked, and misunderstood, intellectual genius, this work is mostly confused, arbitrary, and often driven by hubris.
| mrbassie wrote: | | Anyway, I wouldn't want a god to exist in the first place, I've actually read the bible. I'm not in favour of faith endorsed slavery, condoned rape, forced marriage, forced marriage and slavery as a consequence of being raped, torture, genocide, deliberately, unnecessarily cruel executions etc. |
None of which is necessarily specific to religion/christianity ... and I'm not in the least bit so inclined.
best ... khay |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 772
Location: over here
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| khayyam wrote: | | mrbassie wrote: | | owemeacent wrote: | | Don't forget, Osama bin Ladin, Karl Marx, and the Supreme Leader of Iran all had beards bigger than RMS. You would'nt want them as gods |
Beards aside, why put Marx in such company? |
mrbassie ... besides the incredible level of intellectual dishonesty (how else can "The Poverty of Philosophy" or "The Holy Family" be explained) there is the self-referential logic that constitutes Dialectical Materialism, the spectral nonsense of "commodity fetishism", and the authoritarianism of The Communist Manifesto (providing the model for later experiments in "real socialism" ... and yes, I would argue that Stalinism is not an aberration, but a consequence). Now, the grouping of illustrious names is always arbitrary (indeed, how we judge such persons is often subjective) but Marx isn't some overlooked, and misunderstood, intellectual genius, this work is mostly confused, arbitrary, and often driven by hubris. |
I'm not a Marxist. My line of thought was really that The supreme leader of Iran is...well precisely that. Osama Bin Laden obviously incited (perhaps funded personally) some rather unpleasant actions. I haven't yet read the Communist Manifesto nor Das Kapital, I own both but haven't gotten around to it yet, I have read quite a bit about Stalin and I was under the impression the violence in Communist history seems to stem more from Leninism. Hence I wondered at a guy who wrote a couple of books (yes, I see the incitement commonality here) came to be in the same company as a brutal dictator and a terrorist.
Anyway, I'm not well read enough to debate Marx at present.
| mrbassie wrote: | | Anyway, I wouldn't want a god to exist in the first place, I've actually read the bible. I'm not in favour of faith endorsed slavery, condoned rape, forced marriage, forced marriage and slavery as a consequence of being raped, torture, genocide, deliberately, unnecessarily cruel executions etc. |
| Quote: | None of which is necessarily specific to religion/christianity ... and I'm not in the least bit so inclined.
best ... khay |
I didn't say they were, I just find it repugnant that it is justified therein. Anyway I shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. Beer and the internet don't mix. |
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