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TomWij
Retired Dev
Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1553
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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd? (Last page[s])
Reason: Can you split off the flashing neon irony (meta talk about listing the init system in the forum profile), forum feedback (meta talk about the monit posts), religion talk (meta talk about the introduction of religion into the discussion) from multiple individuals and similar meta discussions into new topics; such that the topic can be restored to the on-topic discussion? Recall that this has already been warned about in a similar thread that was recently locked. These mentioned matters are all off-topic to the discussion; their presence made the on-topic discussion off-topic, for the 24 hours waiting time to be effective the parts which made it off-topic could be removed such that the discussion can start fresh from an on-topic context again. Thank you very much in advance. |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Can we remove anything from a certain dev who's only goal (seemingly) is to cause friction in any thread that even tangentially mentions systemd.
This is getting real old. I don't think I have to spell out who's instigating some of this friction.
It's the same old thing, come in to a thread, start circular arguments, then (magically) thread locked.
Yes, I admit some people should have learned by now that this person only shows up to cause friction and ignored him.
I know that devs have a certain standing, but with the continued atrocious behavior something should be done.
TIA.
Edit to add: No, I really don't care if this gets deleted after the admins read it.
I'm not trying to cause trouble, I've just seen enough friction and posturing by certain people.
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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User: TomWij
Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Post: post 7519360
Reason: Specifically asked not to respond to further posts. He had every right to exercise his right of reply to that post requesting desist, but none at all to reply to my next post. bulshytt about "responses made where they are due" notwithstanding.
I'm seriously sick to death of his constant point-by-point rejoinders wherein he displays his intellectual prowess and the self-reflective insight of a 3-year old, imnsho. I've asked him to stop that, he's continued. I've told him before I would rather just not discuss with him, yet he continues to do the childish point-by-point that I for one find tedious, even if others enjoy a philosophical debate. A further polite request he ignored, and to my mind he just keeps stepping over the mark, as no-one's defined the boundaries for him. At the moment it's just fun, with no consequence.
Please get him to leave me TF alone. |
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ulenrich
Veteran
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1480
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TomWij wrote: | Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd? (Last page[s])
Reason: Can you split off the flashing neon irony (meta talk about listing the init system in the forum profile), forum feedback (meta talk about the monit posts), religion talk (meta talk about the introduction of religion into the discussion) from multiple individuals and similar meta discussions into new topics; such that the topic can be restored to the on-topic discussion? Recall that this has already been warned about in a similar thread that was recently locked. These mentioned matters are all off-topic to the discussion; their presence made the on-topic discussion off-topic, for the 24 hours waiting time to be effective the parts which made it off-topic could be removed such that the discussion can start fresh from an on-topic context again. Thank you very much in advance. |
I would rather like to have a new Gentoo developer only forum,
named: developer statements and corrections of FUD
having threads with only one post containing one sentence beginning with No:
Will udev die
No, kernel.org won't let it die
Will Gentoo switch to systemd
No, Gentoo is a meta distribution
Last edited by ulenrich on Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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steveL
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Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with ulenrich: admin-only sticky in Gentoo chat, with exactly what he said, and no more.
We weren't discussing whether Gentoo would switch any more, it'd been made perfectly why that wouldn't happen several times. So we went on to talk about other things, as people are wont to do in a chat forum, when they find something of interest in what a fellow-user has said. Period. |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| ulenrich wrote: | I would rather like to have a new Gentoo developer only forum,
named: developer statements and corrections of FUD |
I don't really like the term FUD in this context.
It's simply your's and their opinion.
Unless you or they are someone that can predict the future.
But it could work that they would have their own forum.
Now how about we just lock certain of them to only be allowed to post their thoughts there. 
Win-Win WooHoo
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TomWij
Retired Dev
Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1553
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Can we remove anything from a certain dev who's only goal (seemingly) is to cause friction in any thread that even tangentially mentions systemd.
This is getting real old. |
It gets old really quick, even when posts are edited out they still leave traces; consider to stop ignoring me with your ignore script, and you'll see that what you mention it is very well not a goal at all.
Those posts, as well as the report in here; are to keep the thread on track, as in on-topic. As several of the latest posts are clearly off-topic within its context.
| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | It's the same old thing, come in to a thread, start circular arguments, then (magically) thread locked. |
Indeed, it is tiresome; the threads should just go on-topic, instead of the continuation of the posts (see my report above) by some individuals causing it to receive a lock.
| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | Yes, I admit some people should have learned by now that this person only shows up to cause friction and ignored him. |
Or accept that we're here to help, work together and discuss things constructive; start with removing your ignore script, as it causes those ignored to wear an unintended cape that causes friction with the things that it touches.
| steveL wrote: | User: TomWij
Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Post: post 7519360
Reason: Specifically asked not to respond to further posts. He had every right to exercise his right of reply to that post requesting desist, but none at all to reply to my next post. bulshytt about "responses made where they are due" notwithstanding. |
For several months, you have been personally addressing me on a lot of posts made across several media; and then you come in to request me to not respond, after which you once again indirectly address me once again? The request won't work that way, as it only works in a respectful context; if it comes along with a nagging reminder of the same thing you have been saying for months, it has a different effect than what you intend it to have. When will you learn from it and stop doing this personal addressing?
| steveL wrote: | | I'm seriously sick to death of his constant point-by-point rejoinders wherein he displays his intellectual prowess and the self-reflective insight of a 3-year old, imnsho. |
"3-year-old"?
Quoting sentence by sentence is the way I do discussions, it has naturally grown in the way I reply to posts; it's not there to display any such thing, but rather a style of responding that is convenient as to make sure I've read everything and don't skip over parts of a posts, in the very same that I would answer several questions in a support topic.
| steveL wrote: | | I've asked him to stop that, he's continued. I've told him before I would rather just not discuss with him, yet he continues to do the childish point-by-point that I for one find tedious, even if others enjoy a philosophical debate. A further polite request he ignored, and to my mind he just keeps stepping over the mark, as no-one's defined the boundaries for him. At the moment it's just fun, with no consequence. |
"childish"?
| steveL wrote: | | Please get him to leave me TF alone. |
It is as simple as stopping to address me in the first place, I've left you alone several times but yet you come in to address me again (eg. when I mentioned the KDE / Qt libs; you came in to personally address me for which you have received a warning, even though I did not address you before you have addressed me in that topic); we've heard you talk about it, several times, why continue with what has been heard? Consider that it's not worth the effort; especially, if this is yet another occurrence after several months. Enough words have been written on this... Stop? Leaving someone alone goes both ways; so, hereby I request you again to do the same.
| ulenrich wrote: | I would rather like to have a new Gentoo developer only forum,
named: developer statements and corrections of FUD
having threads with only one post containing one sentence beginning with No:
Will udev die
No, kernel.org won't let it die
Will Gentoo switch to systemd
No, Gentoo is a meta distribution |
Forums and Q&A are different; the former are used for discussions, the latter for answering (frequently) asked questions. Of course, forums are sometimes used in a support context, with very specific questions; but that's a different story. This proposal could serve as a wiki; however, it is no replacement for a discussion with the users, as that requires an actual conversation to take place. If users get restricted from writing in such Gentoo developer only forum; you create a gap between the developers and users, whereas I'd rather see that gap tighten than get wider. On a side note, a fact list like that will quickly become unreadable due to its length (and thus facts can't be searched after a certain length); beyond that, not every developer has the same conclusion on these questions which can yield discussions on these own, which beats the purpose of having such a forum in the first place... |
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TomWij
Retired Dev
Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1553
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | Win-Win WooHoo |
Well, have fun then folks, guess it's most clear if I let the fun sink in and reveal its flip-side for the better; unless convinced elsewhere to do otherwise, I'll leave the Gentoo Forums for now as of today, and "I'll shed no tears". ~ BIRDY - Words As Weapons |
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:27 am Post subject: |
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It is not "meta talk" I was directly responding to your "in the short term OpenRC continues to act as default, but long term it will feel as that the concept of a default will fade away", that is why the "standardised base system" and Lennart's "strict policy" were mentioned. These are things you obviously do not care to have included as worthy of discussion in a thread on "systemd", or, I might hypothesis, perfer to avoid ... opting for the more nebulus "fading away [...] of the concept of a default". In my post I also drew in other thoughts (such as the whole question of what community/user support and how it distributions have capitalised on that ... and other forms of ... free labour) so as to illustrate where this avoidance is heading ... and I used satire and humour (in places) to *highlight* that avoidance. You seem to insist that every question but your (narrowly defined) "choice" is off-topic in a thread who's subject matter has drifted over such diverse subjects as nftables, monit, software documentation, polkit, LISP, and others. You avoided both the spirit and depth of my post simply because it doesn't suite your idea of what gentoo should be "working towards" ... and now wish it labelled "meta talk".
| TomWij wrote: | | religion talk (meta talk about the introduction of religion into the discussion) |
Again, this is not "meta talk", its a subject that is (infuriatingly) brought into play in many systemd threads ... its somehow "religion" to be opposed to systemd (or better put, systemd detractors suffer form some religious malady) ... so, ulenrich having brought this into play it was countered ... simple as that.
Also, Tom, please don't priviate message me with further ramblings as to what you intentions were, what is off-topic, etc, ... I don't have a tail.
khay
Last edited by khayyam on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| TomWij wrote: | | unless convinced elsewhere to do otherwise, I'll leave the Gentoo Forums as of today, and "I'll shed no tears". |
Leave, stay, be a jerk or quit being a jerk, it's all your choice.
This whole I'll pick up my jacks an go home attitude is just so childish.
I don't dislike you, it's your I'm better than you attitude that you give off.
We're the same we both put on our pants one leg at a time. Try and remember that.
And save the theatrics for somewhere else.
I'm done, and AFAI'MC the admins can delete all my posts.
Later
Edit to add: I don't even mind being chastised if the admins think I'm out of line. As I said I'm just tired of this circus when systemd comes up.
Edit to add 2: It seems that I was misunderstood by at least one person so this is to clarify.
I'm not leaving, I am tired of the circus that any discussion that systemd touches seems to turn into.
I meant that the admins could delete all my posts in this thread rather that splitting into yet another thread.
I hope Tom doesn't leave permanently.
But I do think that a walk away from the forum for a short period would do him good.
This also applies to some others.
I know in the past I've gotten burnt out on some of the forum shenanigans (different forum) and walked away for a while.
Spend some time with family, take care of the yard, the garden, the flowers, etc. Regain ones perspective.
Have fun
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland
Last edited by Anon-E-moose on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TomWij
Retired Dev
Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1553
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| When people act that way, as well as to claim me to do certain things which weren't at all intended as such; then indeed, it becomes time for a one time "I'm better than you" attitude that I'm labeled as to pick up the jack, leave the crèche, go home and leave all the toys and the childish associated fun behind. Guess I do put my pants on differently; like, you can jump in them, unless maybe when you do have a tail! It is all an actual reality, not theatrics in a circus; because with my heart in a locked up state, what really counts is that "Home is where my heart is". ~ BIRDY - Home |
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aCOSwt
Bodhisattva
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2537
Location: Hilbert space
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Since, much to my surprise, it seems possible to link to youtube's video as part of this thread,
I would like to share this one with everyone and his dog : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jO1EOhGkY0
Starting from 5:13 : "oh bloody hell!"
Palin is just great in this one.
Well,
regarding his moderation skills, I mean.
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| aCOSwt wrote: | Since, much to my surprise, it seems possible to link to youtube's video as part of this thread,
I would like to share this one with everyone and his dog : http://www.
Starting from 5:13 : "oh bloody hell!"
Palin is just great in this one.
Well,
regarding his moderation skills, I mean. |
For your information, right click on the time bar of the video and copy url from current time would just point everyone on a video at the time part you expect them to start looking at.
And as you know at least in france, pointing to a video of any movie (documentary...) not explicit state as public domain or some other form of free watching licensing that is longer than a minute (or is it just 30s ?) is piracy
So lower pants, and hope for an admin with a little foot coming to kick your ass.
I will pray for you that JRG won't be that one, as everyone knows he is so evil that he will hit you on the balls. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | Spend some time with family, take care of the yard, the garden, the flowers, etc. Regain ones perspective. |
Amen. |
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aCOSwt
Bodhisattva
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2537
Location: Hilbert space
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| krinn wrote: | | For your information, right click on the time bar of the video and copy url from current time would just point everyone on a video at the time part you expect them to start looking at. |
Thanks krinn. I did not know that one. Very usefull indeed.
| krinn wrote: | So lower pants, and hope for an admin with a little foot coming to kick your ass.
I will pray for you that JRG won't be that one, as everyone knows he is so evil that he will hit you on the balls. |
I make no doubt that people will react to my initiative depending on how much they feel concerned and how faithfully they feel represented.
To be honest, and before triggering any intervention from admins, I am actually expecting someone to complain about aCOSwt's contributions here because, to tell the exact truth, I no longer like how aCOSwt contributes these days.
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John R. Graham
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10587
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Folks, I'm virtually certain that NeddySeagoon's request for a 24-hour cooling off period did not mean, "Take the conversation to the reporting thread." Please respect the spirit of the request as well as the letter.
- John
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I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters. |
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aCOSwt
Bodhisattva
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2537
Location: Hilbert space
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| aCOSwt wrote: | | To be honest, and before triggering any intervention from admins, I am actually expecting someone to complain about aCOSwt's contributions here because, to tell the exact truth, I no longer like how aCOSwt contributes these days. |
TimedOut !
Verbi gratia :
I am actually asking for help ! (That's what the gentoo forums are made for, aren't they ?)
It happens that I actually need help from a selected amount of contributors who appear watching, and participating actively to, this thread.
Therefore : I post my help request into this thread. 
I am currently in the process of objectively evaluating the pertinence to switch all my systems back to FreeBSD !
OK, I get a couple of purely technical reasons.
However, since I already wrote that, in my opinion, Gentoo = Linux + portage + documentation + community,
the fact that I percieve the community being disrupted in such an utterly disgraceful way, will necessarily be part of the equation.
Hence my help request :
Could you please, (yes I mean : you, like in I want you for nearest xwyz recruiting station) help me to refrain from inappropriately overweighting this fact ?
I'd be grateful.
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desultory
Bodhisattva
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| ulenrich wrote: | I would rather like to have a new Gentoo developer only forum,
named: developer statements and corrections of FUD |
Unless there was vastly more interest from developers than is presently evident, such a forum would almost certainly be doomed to play host to sporadic tracts instead of essentially acting as an official policy blog. Conversely, all any developer needs to start a blog is to ask for one, they could post their explanations of policies, existing, proposed or opposed and simply link to that in rebuttal to opposed, or even materially incorrect, viewpoints.
| ulenrich wrote: | having threads with only one post containing one sentence beginning with No:
Will udev die
No, kernel.org won't let it die
Will Gentoo switch to systemd
No, Gentoo is a meta distribution |
Perhaps not a bad idea from certain perspectives, it has the drawback of carrying no weight of policy by any controlling group. If a member of the Council or the base system or kernel team leads or some similarly positioned individual were to post that, then it would have the requisite bearing, otherwise it seems to serve little benefit.
| John R. Graham wrote: | Folks, I'm virtually certain that NeddySeagoon's request for a 24-hour cooling off period did not mean, "Take the conversation to the reporting thread." Please respect the spirit of the request as well as the letter.
- John |
This. Once more with splitting and locking*.
Split from the reports topic because it possesses a decided peg/hole mismatch with its prior location.
Locked because that button held special appeal at the time, also reasons**.
* Note: this is a reflection on my opinion that the threshold for both had already been passed. As such, attempts to take this as some kind of judgment against aCOSwt will be summarily mocked.
** Note: that was not meant as a placeholder for additional text, it was meant to imply that those reading this tend to be at least adequately clever folks and can spot the indicated indications without further assistance. |
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