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Muso
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Delaware corporation tax benefits wrote:
Delaware charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state, so taking advantage of Delaware's other benefits does not result in an income tax cost. That said, Delaware has a particularly aggressive tax on banks that locate in the state. However, in general, the state is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes because favorable laws of incorporation allow companies to minimize the corporate expenditures (achieved through legal standardization of corporate legal processes), creating a nucleus in Delaware with operating companies often in other states.


Seems they like it.

Same as above wrote:
In February 2013 the London-based Economist published an article on tax-friendly jurisdictions, commenting that Delaware stood for “Dollars and Euros Laundered And Washed At Reasonable Expense”.


:P


Seems like you completely missed my point. Corporate tax != income tax. Nor does it cover all other fees and taxes that ass rape the people who live there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
or even the Delaware state in the US


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thank you for disqualifying yourself from, Who wants to have an adult conversation about politics?.
I was going to point out that there was a business friendly mid-Atlantic state that businesses favored, but I was thinking it was as much for legal reasons than taxes.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
GabrielYYZ wrote:
Delaware corporation tax benefits wrote:
Delaware charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state, so taking advantage of Delaware's other benefits does not result in an income tax cost. That said, Delaware has a particularly aggressive tax on banks that locate in the state. However, in general, the state is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes because favorable laws of incorporation allow companies to minimize the corporate expenditures (achieved through legal standardization of corporate legal processes), creating a nucleus in Delaware with operating companies often in other states.


Seems they like it.

Same as above wrote:
In February 2013 the London-based Economist published an article on tax-friendly jurisdictions, commenting that Delaware stood for “Dollars and Euros Laundered And Washed At Reasonable Expense”.


:P


Seems like you completely missed my point. Corporate tax != income tax. Nor does it cover all other fees and taxes that ass rape the people who live there.


The people are not rich, they don't matter. The "More than 50% of all publicly-traded companies in the United States including 64% of the Fortune 500 have chosen Delaware as their legal home." (reference) are rich, and they like that state just fine.

Hope that clears up my point.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really, given that publicly traded companies are owned by... the public.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
Seems like you completely missed my point. Corporate tax != income tax. Nor does it cover all other fees and taxes that ass rape the people who live there.


The people are not rich, they don't matter. The "More than 50% of all publicly-traded companies in the United States including 64% of the Fortune 500 have chosen Delaware as their legal home." (reference) are rich, and they like that state just fine.

Hope that clears up my point.


No, it does not. You are saying that "the rich" are corporations. I don't think you comprehend the US tax code at all.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Not really, given that publicly traded companies are owned by... the public.


...and "public indecency" means the public is naked.
Ownership wrote:
An individual or group of individuals can own shares in corporations and other legal entities, but do not necessarily own the entities themselves.


Muso wrote:
No, it does not. You are saying that "the rich" are corporations. I don't think you comprehend the US tax code at all.


Saying that "some corporations are rich" is not the same as "the rich are corporations", but you probably got that. Look how far we are from "Delaware is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes".
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Not really, given that publicly traded companies are owned by... the public.


...and "public indecency" means the public is naked.
Ownership wrote:
An individual or group of individuals can own shares in corporations and other legal entities, but do not necessarily own the entities themselves.

I don't understand your response. What you have cited here is just a long way of saying the same thing I said. The companies are not privately owned; they are publicly owned. Anybody can own part of it. For example, the average person (other than the 47% who spend all their money on beer and cigarettes and never save any) has their retirement savings invested in such companies. Even money in savings banks is earning you money because the banks in turn lend it people engaged in money-making enterprise.

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
No, it does not. You are saying that "the rich" are corporations. I don't think you comprehend the US tax code at all.


Saying that "some corporations are rich" is not the same as "the rich are corporations", but you probably got that. Look how far we are from "Delaware is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes".

Corporations are never "rich"; if they have a lot of cash, they are doing it wrong. Corporations put money to work by using to create things that are worth more than it cost to create them (spending it on capital equipment, facilities, paying salaries, etc.). That's a good thing. It's called value creation: they take 2 + 2 and make it equal 5. Governments can't do that. Without people doing this, any economy would be entirely stagnant and never grow. With population growth occurring, the society would become poor and starving. It's a simple fact. Governments can't change that outcome by redistributing wealth; all that does is spread the poverty around evenly. In fact, by taxing people they take money (about half the economic output) out of circulation for a half a year at a time (on average). This creates a HUGE drag on economic growth by preventing that money from being saved or invested by individuals (which means it gets used by businesses to create value). Furthermore, governments are notoriously inefficient and wasteful. With that half of the economic output that they steal, they take 2 + 2 and make it equal 3. Some redistribution is necessary, but this attitude left-wing extremist propaganda about "the evil korporashuns" is self-destructive and an economic brain disease. That's where jobs and salaries and retirements come from. People bitch about unemployment and stagnant wage growth, but then want to kill and eat the very goose that lays those golden eggs. It's populist bullshit aimed at the ignorant.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
GabrielYYZ wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Not really, given that publicly traded companies are owned by... the public.


...and "public indecency" means the public is naked.
Ownership wrote:
An individual or group of individuals can own shares in corporations and other legal entities, but do not necessarily own the entities themselves.

I don't understand your response. What you have cited here is just a long way of saying the same thing I said. The companies are not privately owned; they are publicly owned. Anybody can own part of it. For example, the average person (other than the 47% who spend all their money on beer and cigarettes and never save any) has their retirement savings invested in such companies. Even money in savings banks is earning you money because the banks in turn lend it people engaged in money-making enterprise.

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
No, it does not. You are saying that "the rich" are corporations. I don't think you comprehend the US tax code at all.


Saying that "some corporations are rich" is not the same as "the rich are corporations", but you probably got that. Look how far we are from "Delaware is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes".

Corporations are never "rich"; if they have a lot of cash, they are doing it wrong. Corporations put money to work by using to create things that are worth more than it cost to create them (spending it on capital equipment, facilities, paying salaries, etc.). That's a good thing. It's called value creation: they take 2 + 2 and make it equal 5. Governments can't do that. Without people doing this, any economy would be entirely stagnant and never grow. With population growth occurring, the society would become poor and starving. It's a simple fact. Governments can't change that outcome by redistributing wealth; all that does is spread the poverty around evenly. In fact, by taxing people they take money (about half the economic output) out of circulation for a half a year at a time (on average). This creates a HUGE drag on economic growth by preventing that money from being saved or invested by individuals (which means it gets used by businesses to create value). Furthermore, governments are notoriously inefficient and wasteful. With that half of the economic output that they steal, they take 2 + 2 and make it equal 3. Some redistribution is necessary, but this attitude left-wing extremist propaganda about "the evil korporashuns" is self-destructive and an economic brain disease. That's where jobs and salaries and retirements come from. People bitch about unemployment and stagnant wage growth, but then want to kill and eat the very goose that lays those golden eggs. It's populist bullshit aimed at the ignorant.


PEBKAC, me thinks. Nice memory, though, i'm sure i heard that in the last republican debates.

"Delaware is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes". "Delaware stood for 'Dollars and Euros Laundered And Washed At Reasonable Expense'".
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take some economics classes.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in Switzerland, we have the same problem than in the Us with the Delaware state. Some states in Switzerland have a tax for the companies and the riches that is very lower than in the other states. A lot of companies and rich peoples have they legal residence or siege here. That impoverish the whole country and the result is the income tax for ordinary peoples is very high.

I was living 10 years in Sweden. If I compare the income tax of the 2 countries, it is higher in Switzerland, because the social care insurance is not included into the income tax like in Sweden. And if we don't pay it, our salary is sized by the state to pay that insurance. It is something like the Obama care, but the law said for every body. And it is a private insurance. This is a wonderful example of fascism. You must have an insurance, but that's a private insurance, and if you don't, the state will take our salary and give it to the private company that own the insurance. That's how things work in Switzerland, it is a paradise for the rich peoples, but for the ordinary peoples, this is exactly the same shit than in most other places.

Another comparison between Sweden and Switzerland. When I moved to Sweden, my first salary was 2 times lower than the salary I made in Switzerland before my move. At the end of the month, I got my salary, paid all the bills, and I was having left in the pocket as much money than in Switzerland to make my month. That in a country where many things are cheaper than in Switzerland. In Sweden, most of the restaurants are so cheap I was eating one time a day in a restaurant. Here in Switzerland, if I want to be able to make some travel during my vacation, I don't even eat one time a month into a restaurant, they are just so f. expensive. The only good thing with the Swiss franc is when you travel.

The best deal I know for an ordinary people working in Switzerland, is to live near Basel but in France where the housing and the income tax is cheaper, and you will get access to a good social system, to buy everything in Germany where goods and foods are cheaper, and to work in Switzerland where the salary are higher. But if you are living, buying and working in Switzerland, this is the same shit than almost any where else in the world for ordinary peoples. And I know one thing about Switzerland, when I see in which financial difficulties is my mother, which is retired and which have a good pension for her generation, I will never take my retirement in that country.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Take some economics classes.


++ x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 x ∞
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
...


You're still an apologist for Cuba.

Also, stay our of Sweden. I say this as a Swede with family there.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any government must have enough income to pay its bills, otherwise it go in bankrupt like in Greece. And when, like in Switzerland, the riches pay almost nothing in taxes, this is the ordinary peoples that pay the bills. And when like in France, the riches pay almost nothing, and the state make huge military expenses in wars in Africa and elswhere, this give austerity. That is the ordinary peoples get less work, less salary, less schools for their children, less social cares, less every thing from the state, but they still have to pay the bill. That's elementary economy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
Any government must have enough income to pay its bills, otherwise it go in bankrupt like in Greece. And when, like in Switzerland, the riches pay almost nothing in taxes, this is the ordinary peoples that pay the bills. And when like in France, the riches pay almost nothing, and the state make huge military expenses in wars in Africa and elswhere, this give austerity. That is the ordinary peoples get less work, less salary, less schools for their children, less social cares, less every thing from the state, but they still have to pay the bill. That's elementary economy.


Here, this will fix ALL of your confusion : http://mises.org/rothbard/mes.asp


By the way, You're Welcome.

It's always nice to have a hand in correcting a multi-generational confusion. You've been wrong for generations, but now you're mind can open to truth. Throw away your outdated nonsensical beliefs. Understand, and mature.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Take some economics classes.


Muso wrote:
++ x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 x ∞


Ahh you never disappoint. Move the conversation away from x and attack for y.

"Delaware is viewed as a positive location for corporate tax purposes". In Delaware, economics classes take you.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
...


You're still an apologist for Cuba.


Cuba would be fine without the criminal sanctions imposed on it by the USA.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Muso wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
...


You're still an apologist for Cuba.


Cuba would be fine without the criminal sanctions imposed on it by the USA.
Communist countries that the US trades with end up with free-er markets and greater amounts of personal freedom too. Didn't think you were a fan of that kind of thing. ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
Here in Switzerland, we have the same problem than in the Us with the Delaware state. Some states in Switzerland have a tax for the companies and the riches that is very lower than in the other states. A lot of companies and rich peoples have they legal residence or siege here. That impoverish the whole country and the result is the income tax for ordinary peoples is very high.

I was living 10 years in Sweden. If I compare the income tax of the 2 countries, it is higher in Switzerland, because the social care insurance is not included into the income tax like in Sweden. And if we don't pay it, our salary is sized by the state to pay that insurance. It is something like the Obama care, but the law said for every body. And it is a private insurance. This is a wonderful example of fascism. You must have an insurance, but that's a private insurance, and if you don't, the state will take our salary and give it to the private company that own the insurance. That's how things work in Switzerland, it is a paradise for the rich peoples, but for the ordinary peoples, this is exactly the same shit than in most other places.

Another comparison between Sweden and Switzerland. When I moved to Sweden, my first salary was 2 times lower than the salary I made in Switzerland before my move. At the end of the month, I got my salary, paid all the bills, and I was having left in the pocket as much money than in Switzerland to make my month. That in a country where many things are cheaper than in Switzerland. In Sweden, most of the restaurants are so cheap I was eating one time a day in a restaurant. Here in Switzerland, if I want to be able to make some travel during my vacation, I don't even eat one time a month into a restaurant, they are just so f. expensive. The only good thing with the Swiss franc is when you travel.

The best deal I know for an ordinary people working in Switzerland, is to live near Basel but in France where the housing and the income tax is cheaper, and you will get access to a good social system, to buy everything in Germany where goods and foods are cheaper, and to work in Switzerland where the salary are higher. But if you are living, buying and working in Switzerland, this is the same shit than almost any where else in the world for ordinary peoples. And I know one thing about Switzerland, when I see in which financial difficulties is my mother, which is retired and which have a good pension for her generation, I will never take my retirement in that country.

You get around a lot for a Cuban.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
Any government must have enough income to pay its bills, otherwise it go in bankrupt like in Greece. And when, like in Switzerland, the riches pay almost nothing in taxes, this is the ordinary peoples that pay the bills. And when like in France, the riches pay almost nothing, and the state make huge military expenses in wars in Africa and elswhere, this give austerity. That is the ordinary peoples get less work, less salary, less schools for their children, less social cares, less every thing from the state, but they still have to pay the bill. That's elementary economy.


Here, this will fix ALL of your confusion : http://mises.org/rothbard/mes.asp


By the way, You're Welcome.

It's always nice to have a hand in correcting a multi-generational confusion. You've been wrong for generations, but now you're mind can open to truth. Throw away your outdated nonsensical beliefs. Understand, and mature.


A lot of economists are thinking Rothbard is wrong. Personally, I think he is right when he said that without violence, it is no state. But I also think that without violence, it is no capitalism and no "free" market. If we look at history, the weapons manufacturers and their customers was the first customers of the banks. Also, the modern concept of state was made possible by the capitalism and its free market, and with time, as the capitalism was developing, the state get more and more power. Today, the violence is the monopole of the state, and the result is that the worst states in the world are selling the worst of their waste, a form of pure uranium and plutonium called depleted uranium, to weapon manufacturers, which make bombs and missiles with this, and the same corrupted states are using these insane bombs.

The ground of non controlled violence is always the same: accumulation of frustrations. All the psychologists know that. And one of them proved than the ground of that is the religious believes of the society. When it is no organized religion, the society is mostly peaceful, when it is an organized religion, the society is mostly violent. http://www.violence.de

Also, if we look at the religious dogma of our society, all is based on the conflict of the Good and the Evil, and that for the Jews, for the Christians and for the Muslims. For these 3 religions, some men are nearest God than the others. With the Capitalism, it become they are richer than the others. The ground of this bullshit is that this Dogma make possible another hierarchy between their Gods, the man and the rest of the creation (the nature). From that, some men think they can own the nature and do whatever they want with it, which is completely insane for the good reason that without the nature, we will not even exist.

All that imply if you want to solve the violence problem of our society, to solve that superstitious problem is more important than to solve the economical problem. Or in other worlds, you cannot think you can solve only the economical problem and think you will make a better society. It will only be different, but not better.

Things are not good or evil by essence, they are. And we have the choice to make good actions or bad actions with these things in our life. That imply the transcendence is a human quality, and that to personalize God and give it any kind of power on our life, like to say the transcendence is God privilege, is just about superstition. We have the choice, and that's the only quality that make us different from the other animals.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nearly every statement you have made here is false. The first customers of banks were farmers. Capitalism created popular economic power, which gave rise to democracy (a state rising from popular mandate), and the two of them nearly brought about the end of the force-based totalitarian state, which had existed since the dawn of time. Socialism is the necrotic, dying gasp of the force-based totalitarian state, and it too is dying, everywhere it has managed to fester. Socialism/Communism is the biggest state religion now on the planet (and oh yes, it is indeed a religion). Economic doldrums always give rise to populist politics, and the false magic of socialism is attractive to suffering masses in the same way that a mirage is attractive to a man dying of thirst. The reality is something different: we live in a world in which the authoritarianism of states has, as a whole, been on a steady decline for nearly a millennium, the occasional egomaniacal con-man asshat popping up here or there, now or then, notwithstanding. We used to have kings ordering scores of 'disloyal' subjects boiled or impaled for entertainment. Then we had emperors enslaving hundreds of thousands. Then we had socialist/communists ordering mass graves filled with millions. Now we get really angry when we find out the guy we elected told us lies and is trying to cover it up.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under many centuries, no one in Europa could win a war without the financial support of the Vatican Bank. More recently, both Hitler and Stalin was financed by the same banks from both sides of the Atlantic. Today, one of these banks, JPMorgan, which is a private bank, reclaim the return of authoritarians regimes in Europa: http://streetdemocracy.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/jpmorgan-calls-for-authoritarian-regimes-in-europe/

And after that, some peoples here want us to believe that free market is about peace and love :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
Under many centuries, no one in Europa could win a war without the financial support of the Vatican Bank. More recently, both Hitler and Stalin was financed by the same banks from both sides of the Atlantic. Today, one of these banks, JPMorgan, which is a private bank, reclaim the return of authoritarians regimes in Europa: http://streetdemocracy.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/jpmorgan-calls-for-authoritarian-regimes-in-europe/

And after that, some peoples here want us to believe that free market is about peace and love :lol:
What free market, where?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
Under many centuries, no one in Europa could win a war without the financial support of the Vatican Bank. More recently, both Hitler and Stalin was financed by the same banks from both sides of the Atlantic. Today, one of these banks, JPMorgan, which is a private bank, reclaim the return of authoritarians regimes in Europa: http://streetdemocracy.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/jpmorgan-calls-for-authoritarian-regimes-in-europe/

And after that, some peoples here want us to believe that free market is about peace and love :lol:
What free market, where?

Dude, don't do that to him. It might cause a stroke.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
Under many centuries, no one in Europa could win a war without the financial support of the Vatican Bank. More recently, both Hitler and Stalin was financed by the same banks from both sides of the Atlantic. Today, one of these banks, JPMorgan, which is a private bank, reclaim the return of authoritarians regimes in Europa: http://streetdemocracy.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/jpmorgan-calls-for-authoritarian-regimes-in-europe/

And after that, some peoples here want us to believe that free market is about peace and love :lol:

That doesn't change you being wrong. If you think the Vatican was the first bank, you're probably one of those people who believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago and people rode dinosaurs.
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