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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerard82 wrote:
I still wonder what ebuild contains udev.
You know how to find this out, don't you?
Code:
hal ~ # equery which udev
/usr/portage/sys-fs/udev/udev-204.ebuild
Did I misunderstand?

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gerard82
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that John,but I can't find udev in distfiles.
Gerard.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's shown by the SRC_URI variable in the ebuild:
Code:
hal ~ # grep SRC_URI `equery which udev`
        SRC_URI="http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/systemd-${PV}.tar.xz"
                                SRC_URI="${SRC_URI}
Thus, I infer that udev is extracted from the systemd tarball.

Edit: A slightly more resolved result is returned by
Code:
emerge --fetchonly --oneshot udev
- John
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Last edited by John R. Graham on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
Now it turned out that not only udev pulls systemd parts into the system. Fine!
I think chattr +i /usr/lib/systemd will help to find which one writes into this place.


You'll find out that hundreds of packages in the Portage tree do; not sure why you are fighting this, the files don't result in a run time difference if you don't install udev or systemd itself.

If you don't want these useless files, despite them being quite small; INSTALL_MASK is the way to go.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advice, now given thrice. ;)

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creaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
If reinstalling floats your boat, that's okay, but several people have told you that you can achieve the same results without reinstalling. Check out the INSTALL_MASK variable in make.conf. After adding files to INSTALL_MASK, a simple --oneshot re-emerge of the offending package will remove the systemd stigmata.

- John


It is not so difficult to re-install the system. I have a few desktops and one of them dedicated as test bed, so I can re-install it over and over. It doesn't interferes me to deal with other things. And I prefer to have a system that was built initially in a right way than to fix things with unmerge.
I saw suggestions about INSTALL_MASK. I think chattr +i is better for my aims: it will warn me when some package will try to get access to this directory.

TomWij wrote:

You'll find out that hundreds of packages in the Portage tree do; not sure why you are fighting this, the files don't result in a run time difference if you don't install udev or systemd itself.


I just dislike Poettering's glasses so I do not want to have any stuffs from this man. Or at least, to have as little of them as it possible, no matter is it binary that could be run or is it just a man pages.
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gerard82
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll be fighting a loosing battle.
Read my last post on the first page.
Gerard.
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http://www.sysresccd.org/Download
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
creaker wrote:
I thought it may be mdev, but with mdev I can't install xf86-input-evdev


mdev doesn't seem to be in the Portage tree.

Actually it is:
Code:
USE=mdev emerge sys-apps/busybox


Since I haven't tried setting up a system that way, I haven't gone into the secret sauce to be able to make mdev satisfy a dependency for virtual/udev or to make sure that things still work if you install the virtual without its dependencies. So far as I know, mdev is incapable of routing events to the event-driven X drivers. (You can still run X without evdev, of course; since I like evdev, I haven't tried mdev). Mdev *is* in Portage, though.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerard82 wrote:
You'll be fighting a loosing battle.
Read my last post on the first page.
Gerard.


I read your post, moreover I tried to remove this directory and boot.
Why I dislike to have it inside my system? Practice shows that these things (like systemd promotion) happens on the sly. I do not want to be faced with the fact that this directory was populated with some files, that I do not need, without informing me. So I blocked it with chattr and trying to rid it out at all.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
TomWij wrote:

You'll find out that hundreds of packages in the Portage tree do; not sure why you are fighting this, the files don't result in a run time difference if you don't install udev or systemd itself.


I just dislike Poettering's glasses so I do not want to have any stuffs from this man. Or at least, to have as little of them as it possible, no matter is it binary that could be run or is it just a man pages.


The stuff you have shown us in the screenshot I responded to is not from Poettering; it are files added by random maintainers or random upstreams to random packages, you can't just chattr the directory as it breaks emerging a lot of packages.

miket wrote:
TomWij wrote:
creaker wrote:
I thought it may be mdev, but with mdev I can't install xf86-input-evdev


mdev doesn't seem to be in the Portage tree.

Actually it is:
Code:
USE=mdev emerge sys-apps/busybox


Thank you for pointing this out, I've never come across it so I've only heard it mentioned; now I know where it is hiding...
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you can't just chattr the directory as it breaks emerging a lot of packages.


yes, I know, it will brake any installation (e.g. dbus failed to install) that tries to access this directory, I do it because I want to know which packages uses it.

Quote:
The stuff you have shown us in the screenshot I responded to is not from Poettering


The /usr/lib/systemd directory is a part of udev installation, which is a Poettering's stepchild.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
Quote:
you can't just chattr the directory as it breaks emerging a lot of packages.


yes, I know, it will brake any installation (e.g. dbus failed to install) that tries to access this directory, I do it because I want to know which packages uses it.


`equery b /usr/lib/systemd` will show you.

creaker wrote:
Quote:
The stuff you have shown us in the screenshot I responded to is not from Poettering


The /usr/lib/systemd directory is a part of udev installation, which is a Poettering's stepchild.


That doesn't mean that its contents are.
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wuzzerd
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If chattr +i breaks things how about

ln -s /dev/null /usr/lib/systemd ?[/code]
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wuzzerd wrote:
If chattr +i breaks things how about

ln -s /dev/null /usr/lib/systemd ?[/code]


That can result in file collisions causing the same problem as chattr; consider the supported INSTALL_MASK, instead of workarounds.

Which problem are we trying to fix here? Why focus on the packages that touch this directory?
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ssuominen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no guarantee whatsoever files from /lib/systemd or /usr/lib/systemd will be used only by systemd, of which the lvm2-activation-generator binary shipped with sys-fs/lvm2 is a nice example of.
I really don't see much value in trying to avoid these small text files by overeager INSTALL_MASK's or other tricks.
Even in embedded world, memory is largely not a problem anymore.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ wuzzerd
I tried symlink, it does nothing.

@ TomWij
I don't fixing a problem, I just want to understand how things work. And the practise is the best way.
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rich0
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
Quote:
you can't just chattr the directory as it breaks emerging a lot of packages.


yes, I know, it will brake any installation (e.g. dbus failed to install) that tries to access this directory, I do it because I want to know which packages uses it.


Well, that's easy to answer in the long term. Look in /etc/init.d - every package installing a file in there will eventually also install a corresponding systemd unit. They're just text files - you can't get AIDS from casually reading a text file. The same is true of the openrc service scripts - systemd users won't catch the plague from those either.

If you want to know what packages install files there today, just "grep -r systemd_dounit /usr/portage".

If you don't want them installed, just set INSTALL_MASK and those packages won't install them anymore. Or you can make the directory immutable and be reminded of how just about everything is supporting systemd these days. :)

There are a few reasons why systemd units and openrc scripts are not controlled by a USE flag:
  • It was felt to be overkill to use a flag just to modify the installation of a small text file when INSTALL_MASK exists. The same logic applies to manpages, doc files, and so on.
  • If somebody wants to switch init systems down the road it doesn't make sense to rebuild half the system just to install a few text files.
  • Service config files are really part of package configuration - having a special package that installs just the config file(s) for openrc and systemd would either result in one big package that gets reinstalled every other day and touched by every dev, or a million little ones that flood the tree.


But, whatever floats your boat. I just figured it would be useful to know WHY things are the way they are, and it has nothing to do with bribes from Redhat.
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
I do not want to be faced with the fact that this directory was populated with some files, that I do not need, without informing me.
Dozens and dozens and dozens of folders and subfolders and subsubfolders get populated with "useless" files without informing you. :roll: The INSTALL_MASK method works, while your chattr method just makes it a pain in the a***e for you to set up your system.
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