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TomWij
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methods are often perceived incorrectly based on their defaults; you shouldn't so much look at what something brings you at first, but rather how something works after that.

Looking at the manual method one uses a defconfig or kernel seeds, it brings something that just doesn't work out of the box; so, how does it work? It requires you to build up everything by enabling all the hardware support in the kernel; if needed, you build your initramfs manually. You effectively "build up from scratch" doing it manually, using a set of commands you might end up putting in a script.

Looking at genkernel, it brings something that does both the kernel and initramfs with a config that enables quite some support and it definitely does too much; so, how does it work? You build it down by configuring it to do what you need (/etc/genkernel.conf as well as for example `genkernel kernel` instead of `genkernel all`) and disable everything in the config you don't need. You effectively "form kernel generation the way you want it", using configuration after which you only have to end up running a single command.

Now, one method does not exclude the other; you can very well use a defconfig or kernel seed in genkernel without an initramfs.

So, some new people that haven't ever touched kernel configuration before and would produce failing kernels with the manual setup prefer to use genkernel because you start with a kernel that just works for most of what you have and you simply can change and disable options in it over the time; it's also quick and easy to reach splash / lvm / mdadm / ... solutions without needing to spend too much time figuring things out.

Other people that don't need such a huge setup, that just need a kernel and already have a config, that don't mind writing a small script to spare out the size of genkernel, that want to learn how kernel building works on a lower level and for a variety of other reasons go for the manual setup; it is simply a matter of preference.

You'll find both new and experienced people using both; because well, there is no one size that fits all...

Without siding a particular choice, this was a neutral take on the difference; now for opinion, I would advise to use genkernel and configure and minimize it over the next days, then you can later see if you want to step away from it or not. If you are however up for starting from the bottom and don't have much problems doing it manually, you can very well go for that approach too; whichever way you go, there are many people to support you.
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow your a developer!
Thankyou Tom! That really helped me! :)
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(The administrators whom helped you on the last page are developers too; or well, at least according to http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/userinfo.xml as I am not sure if that reflects staff or developers)
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am not a developer, nor wiki team member, nor documentation team member. i just write down what works for me and try to lighten the load where i can on the real developers / wiki members / doc team. its an easy way for me to recreate systems from scratch.

my advice, manual config with out pappy... you'll be empowered to compile kernels for debian ubuntu slackware fedora red hat cent gentoo etc etc etc etc etc etc etc; etc times infinity

you will have hands on knowledge of LINUX... gnu is another story. gnu/linux is gnu free software to recreate unix software tools, linus torvalds beat gnu to the punch of the kernel. gnu is still working on its kernel, and its called hurd. its a mach micro kernel, where linux is a monolithic kernel. youtube up some videos of lectures of richard stallman & linus torvalds.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gogobebe2,

Without wishing to blow TomWijs cover too much, he's on the Gentoo kernel team :)

Developers have permissions to change the portage tree and hence the software we all run.
You can try this in the safety of your own install by creating your own overlay. Put that on your TODO list.

The important thing is that Gentoo is a community and we are all in it together.
What counts is what you do for the community.

I came here over 10 years ago looking for some help, and helped others while I was waiting my turn.
No, I'm not still waiting for that post to be answered :) but I'm still here helping.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Gentoo is a community and we are all in it together." gentoo is a sub-community of the linux & bsd communities. were here to do nothing short of change the world. community is why i contribute even if i disagree with and dislike people here i will still contribute and help them, you, and ultimately myself.


"Lameter said, noting that NASDAQ uses a modified version of the Gentoo Linux distribution."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9219204/How_Linux_mastered_Wall_Street

straight up, WE RUN WALL STREET....
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
i am not a developer, nor wiki team member, nor documentation team member. i just write down what works for me and try to lighten the load where i can on the real developers / wiki members / doc team. its an easy way for me to recreate systems from scratch.

my advice, manual config with out pappy... you'll be empowered to compile kernels for debian ubuntu slackware fedora red hat cent gentoo etc etc etc etc etc etc etc; etc times infinity

you will have hands on knowledge of LINUX... gnu is another story. gnu/linux is gnu free software to recreate unix software tools, linus torvalds beat gnu to the punch of the kernel. gnu is still working on its kernel, and its called hurd. its a mach micro kernel, where linux is a monolithic kernel. youtube up some videos of lectures of richard stallman & linus torvalds.

Do you know any tutorials on how to do it manually?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gogobebe2,

I posted a link to an old post of mine - it involved lots of coffee.
kernel-seeds also explains the manual kernel building method, in much more detail than my post.

Don't get side tracked into spending days getting a lean mean kernel. You can do that later without messing up any working kernel you may already have.
genkernel will get you going. There is lots to learn - come back to the kernel later.

Make your Gentoo work first, make it better after it works.
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
gogobebe2,

I posted a link to an old post of mine - it involved lots of coffee.
kernel-seeds also explains the manual kernel building method, in much more detail than my post.

Don't get side tracked into spending days getting a lean mean kernel. You can do that later without messing up any working kernel you may already have.
genkernel will get you going. There is lots to learn - come back to the kernel later.

Make your Gentoo work first, make it better after it works.

K so should I just use genkernel? Do I need to configure genkernel? Or is it ok as it is? And how does the makeconfig relate to genkernel?
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eyoung100
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything is automatic, just run genkernel all from inside the chroot. dont worry about menuconfig or pappy's seeds .
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eyoung100 wrote:
everything is automatic, just run genkernel all from inside the chroot. dont worry about menuconfig or pappy's seeds .

sorry, what's a chroot and do I need to type a command in to run genkernel? Isn't it running in the background or something though?
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chroot is like patching into another system....

chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash = make /mnt/gentoo become / & have root (admin) access over it.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot

please start googling these very very basic questions.... like google 'chroot gentoo wiki' 'chroot arch wiki' would easily answer this for you with out dragging this thread along any further.
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
chroot is like patching into another system....

chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash = make /mnt/gentoo become / & have root (admin) access over it.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot

please start googling these very very basic questions.... like google 'chroot gentoo wiki' 'chroot arch wiki' would easily answer this for you with out dragging this thread along any further.

sorry.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its ok, just google first, ask later. i had problems with cgi for over a month before i asked anything on freenodes irc. do you have xchat or hexchat on your debian system? irc will speed your progress up considerably, and give instant access to answers with out having to wait like on the forums.
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
its ok, just google first, ask later. i had problems with cgi for over a month before i asked anything on freenodes irc. do you have xchat or hexchat on your debian system? irc will speed your progress up considerably, and give instant access to answers with out having to wait like on the forums.

No I don't I'll look into that later. I gtg study sorry (got science exam tomorrow)
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gogobebe2 wrote:

sorry, what's a chroot and do I need to type a command in to run genkernel? Isn't it running in the background or something though?



The first (or lowest) directory in the file system heirarchy, is /, which is the "root" of the file system "tree".
chroot is shorthand for "change root", referring to /. For example, during the gentoo installation after you've mounted proc, sys etc. at /mnt/gentoo/whatever the next thing you do is chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash. So you "change root" so that /mnt/gentoo sort of becomes /. It's a bit like virtualisation insofar as you're basically running an instance of the os inside another instance of the os.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
chroot is like patching into another system....

chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash = make /mnt/gentoo become / & have root (admin) access over it.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot

please start googling these very very basic questions.... like google 'chroot gentoo wiki' 'chroot arch wiki' would easily answer this for you with out dragging this thread along any further.


What's wrong with him asking the forum questions, basic or not? Who cares if his thread is x # of pages long? You're effectively giving a young enthusiastic guy an rtfm response and I don't think that's cool.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i consider the possibility that this could be a 45 year old troll.... i agree RTFM isn't cool, and the post was a bit harsh. i disagree, in that i'm trying to encourage them to use tools that are at their disposal that will ultimately make them better at this in the end. heres some vids gogobebe2, you can do it....

http://youtu.be/sJwwcw56d6c

http://youtu.be/bmjbmp3srJk

http://youtu.be/E_vhQg5wDSY
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gogobebe2,

By all means Google first bht never be afraid to ask here.

There is only one stupid question - the one you don't ask because then you remain ignorant.
Ignorant is OK - we can and do fix that here. Stupid is for life and cannot be fixed. Don't confuse the two.

666threesixes666,
I guess you are not a parent with teenagers yet ?
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
666threesixes666 wrote:
chroot is like patching into another system....

chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash = make /mnt/gentoo become / & have root (admin) access over it.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot

please start googling these very very basic questions.... like google 'chroot gentoo wiki' 'chroot arch wiki' would easily answer this for you with out dragging this thread along any further.


What's wrong with him asking the forum questions, basic or not? Who cares if his thread is x # of pages long? You're effectively giving a young enthusiastic guy an rtfm response and I don't think that's cool.

I agree with 3-6's, I should've googled chroot - which I have now :D
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel I havn't done things that I needed to do. I also want to re-install so I learn more. Some things in those videos I didn't do and i looked and them and though "What??? I never did that from the installation manual guide!"
This guy explains everything while he does it. I think this is really good: http://youtu.be/bmjbmp3srJk
I'm going to follow that guide. I'll come back here if I need help.

I just wanted to say: Thanks everyone so much, I really, really, really appriciated it. You really helped me and got me really interested in this.
- gogobebe2
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
do you have xchat or hexchat on your debian system? irc will speed your progress up considerably, and give instant access to answers with out having to wait like on the forums.

I got xchat :)
Can't see any gentoo server in the list though...
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eyoung100
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start at #gentoo on FreeNode
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the official Gentoo channels are on Freenode. Here's the guide.

- John
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gogobebe2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K I'm on :)
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