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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
a judge declined to sign a warrant
8O My advice: you folks learn French, German, Italian or Spanish and get out of this madhouse ASAP.

Oh, LOL USA. :lol:
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.

As of January 2013, it is against state law to openly brandish a weapon. Before that, it was illegal to openly brandish a weapon with attached ammunition.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

prenj wrote:
Yeah, seriously. Children have allowance money. You save the money in a jar, and then buy whatever you want. I used to buy firecrackers, then condoms (cos they were fun to fill with water and throw around). I didn't raid my fathers stash of porn magazines, I had my own. Among other stashes. You get the idea.
The point is to inform the child and boot up a cognitive process inside their heads so that they can chose better. Not to drive them around to school, "save" them from everything, and control their environment to the extent that if left without supervision they might actually die.
Same goes for cops. Where the fuck was common sense "process" in their heads nowadays? Has everybody gone and turned autistic all of a sudden?


A good parent will teach his kid to make smart decisions and police his purchases until they can make good decisions. some 13 year olds are pretty smart, but some aren't and that's simply because they are 13.

BK wrote:

Here's another one. Schizophrenic guy off his medication is sitting in a chair in the street with a knife. His mother calls 911. Cops, knowing full well he is mentally ill, come and blow his ass away, saying he lunged at them with the knife. (How many times do you hear that?)

Only, in this case, somebody got it on video. The guy was just standing there, nowhere near them, not moving a muscle, and they fired four shots into his stomach. See the video.


disarm the police. Or, if you are going to have something, make it a real weapon so you can defend yourself against the police. Damn tragedy. The mother must beside herself with grief. She calls the police to help her son and they shoot him. I would be pretty wrecked after that.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.

As of January 2013, it is against state law to openly brandish a weapon. Before that, it was illegal to openly brandish a weapon with attached ammunition.

Yeah, but what does it mean to "brandish" a weapon? That's a pretty subjective statement when it comes to rifles. If they're interpreting it to mean "carry", or even getting close to such an interpretation, then they're violating the Constitution. (Although, needless to say, there are already numerous Federal, state and municipal firearms laws which are clearly unconstitutional in my opinion).

Furthermore, what exactly qualifies as a "weapon" when it comes to air rifles? If I'm out on my lawn with a simple BB gun shooting at a squirrel that's been raiding my bird-feeder, am I "brandishing a weapon"? Anybody who thinks so needs mental health care, and yet that's exactly sort of thing that got this child killed. Some ignorant person whose been spun into a frenzy by "ZOMG teh Guuunz!" on the mind-numbing collectivist-authoritarian jabbernews, and who wouldn't know a real firearm from a tennis racket, thinks they see an "assault rifle", calls the cops, and they then take it on faith that this is what was in fact seen.

I don't envy police officers their jobs, but this seems like a clear case of "shoot first, ask questions later".
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

juniper wrote:
A good parent will teach his kid to make smart decisions and police his purchases until they can make good decisions. some 13 year olds are pretty smart, but some aren't and that's simply because they are 13.

I had good parents, and when I was about 13 I was up on the railroad overpass shooting my BB gun at cars as they went underneath, and then running into the woods if they stopped. One guy chased me and caught me once, but nobody ever called the cops and said, "ZOMG I see teh Guuunnnzzz!!!" and got me shot.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

You really want to open that tu quoque do you?
July 2013
American officer shot and killed an unarmed homeless man for running away
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=9193043

or how about
July 2013
Cell attendants at Brooklyn's Central Bookings Jail repeatedly ignored Livingston's cries for medical attention for a period of seven hours, until finally she died.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/cops-pleas-inmate-died-witness-article-1.1406255

or how about
april 2013
Ibragim Todashev interview and death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibragim_Todashev#Todashev.27s_questioning_and_death
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL USA

:lol:
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

You really want to open that tu quoque do you?

Nice knee-jerk. I didn't "open" anything; he's the one who brought up what your government supposedly 'doesn't do'. Why do you English have an obsessive-compulsive complex, always trying to compare and contrast yourself with Americans? It's narcissistic. Get over yourselves. Inferiority complexes are for pubescent boys.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ur the one that has the hardon for attempting misdirection by comparing what others do as a means to divert attention away from a discussion at hand. a.k.a tu quoque, I mean seriously you do it almost every thread where the discussion has you on the backfoot.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

You really want to open that tu quoque do you?

Nice knee-jerk. I didn't "open" anything; he's the one who brought up what your government supposedly 'doesn't do'. Why do you English have an obsessive-compulsive complex, always trying to compare and contrast yourself with Americans? It's narcissistic. Get over yourselves. Inferiority complexes are for pubescent boys.


Let me recap.

You: guns protect us from the guberment.
Me: no they don't (supported with numbers). Here, the govt doesn't shoot it's citizens.
You: BULLSHIT! it happens.

of course it happens here. Just far far less.

it's still actually a mystery to me. If one of the main purposes of guns is to protect you from the state, why is it working so poorly?
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

You really want to open that tu quoque do you?
July 2013
American officer shot and killed an unarmed homeless man for running away
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=9193043

or how about
July 2013
Cell attendants at Brooklyn's Central Bookings Jail repeatedly ignored Livingston's cries for medical attention for a period of seven hours, until finally she died.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/cops-pleas-inmate-died-witness-article-1.1406255

or how about
april 2013
Ibragim Todashev interview and death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibragim_Todashev#Todashev.27s_questioning_and_death


last year, approximately 600 people were killed by american police. last year 0 brits were killed by british police.
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wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

You really want to open that tu quoque do you?
July 2013
American officer shot and killed an unarmed homeless man for running away
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=9193043

or how about
July 2013
Cell attendants at Brooklyn's Central Bookings Jail repeatedly ignored Livingston's cries for medical attention for a period of seven hours, until finally she died.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/cops-pleas-inmate-died-witness-article-1.1406255

or how about
april 2013
Ibragim Todashev interview and death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibragim_Todashev#Todashev.27s_questioning_and_death


last year, approximately 600 people were killed by american police. last year 0 brits were killed by british police.

That is true, but in the climate that is the USA where the cops are shit scared they will face someone with a gun AND do face guns allowances have to be made. But FFS some of the death by police are just...

Equally... in 2012 German police fired 85 bullets while there was an incident where US police used 90 bullets for one person... seriously... pewpewpewpew...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCzT4njsyH4
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the kid had pointed the gun at them then I can understand. If they shot him just because he didn't drop the weapon then they should be charged with murder. Not doing what a policeman says is not a crime afaik
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Not doing what a policeman says is not a crime afaik
It is in a police state.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Not doing what a policeman says is not a crime afaik
It is in a police state.

It can't be a police state... if it was then people would be using the rights enshrined in the 2nd amendment to make the country free. There is no spying on the people, no state brutality, no authoritarianism or tiny hints of socialist BECAUSE these are all against the USA constitution and if any of this was even hinted at then the people would stop it, so there can't be any of this because there is no civil war.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to this disreputable source, our first is still outperforming the same freedom enjoyed by some of our EU cousins. No need yet to progress to the second.

Let the bloviation resume.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
According to this disreputable source, our first is still outperforming the same freedom enjoyed by some of our EU cousins. No need yet to progress to the second.

Let the bloviation resume.


why not draw a line in the sand and protect the first? That is after all the best one. 4th too.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
ur the one that has the hardon for attempting misdirection by comparing what others do as a means to divert attention away from a discussion at hand. a.k.a tu quoque

Regardless of whether that's true, it's not what happened here, now is it, Captain Kneejerk. He's the one who made the comparison. Premature ejaculator.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.


The daily mail constantly complains about people not speaking english here. The police don't shoot them.

Bullshit. Your police gunned somebody down one day just because they were brownish looking and running toward the underground.

You really want to open that tu quoque do you?

Nice knee-jerk. I didn't "open" anything; he's the one who brought up what your government supposedly 'doesn't do'. Why do you English have an obsessive-compulsive complex, always trying to compare and contrast yourself with Americans? It's narcissistic. Get over yourselves. Inferiority complexes are for pubescent boys.


Let me recap.

You: guns protect us from the guberment.
Me: no they don't (supported with numbers). Here, the govt doesn't shoot it's citizens.
You: BULLSHIT! it happens.

of course it happens here. Just far far less.

it's still actually a mystery to me. If one of the main purposes of guns is to protect you from the state, why is it working so poorly?

Strawman (with "let me recap" being a clumsy red flag, by the way).

The main purpose of firearms is defense. Individuals have a right to them because the right of self-defense is a basic human right. While it's not the only reason our Constitution protects that basic human right, it specifically forbids the state from infringing upon it because, historically, every state that has engaged in extreme authoritarian abuse of its populace has facilitated it by restricting the right to bear arms (and other rights, such as freedom of speech, assembly, movement, and so on). You say it's not working here, but our government is not yet engaging in extreme authoritarian abuse. Personally, I think this Administration would do it if it could get away with it, and the armed populace and our fiercely defended freedom of speech are the two main reasons it can't. Your country, on the other hand, has allowed both of these rights to be eroded and may well pay a heavy price for it in the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Naib wrote:
ur the one that has the hardon for attempting misdirection by comparing what others do as a means to divert attention away from a discussion at hand. a.k.a tu quoque

Regardless of whether that's true, it's not what happened here, now is it, Captain Kneejerk. He's the one who made the comparison. Premature ejaculator.

on the contrary, perfect response to tu quoque. Don't like it? stop posting tu quoque, quite simple.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Naib wrote:
ur the one that has the hardon for attempting misdirection by comparing what others do as a means to divert attention away from a discussion at hand. a.k.a tu quoque

Regardless of whether that's true, it's not what happened here, now is it, Captain Kneejerk. He's the one who made the comparison. Premature ejaculator.

on the contrary, perfect response to tu quoque. Don't like it? stop posting tu quoque, quite simple.

But there was no tu quoque here, numb-nuts. He's the one who created the international comparison. I merely corrected him.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

Strawman (with "let me recap" being a clumsy red flag, by the way).

The main purpose of firearms is defense. Individuals have a right to them because the right of self-defense is a basic human right. While it's not the only reason our Constitution protects that basic human right, it specifically forbids the state from infringing upon it because, historically, every state that has engaged in extreme authoritarian abuse of its populace has facilitated it by restricting the right to bear arms (and other rights, such as freedom of speech, assembly, movement, and so on). You say it's not working here, but our government is not yet engaging in extreme authoritarian abuse. Personally, I think this Administration would do it if it could get away with it, and the armed populace and our fiercely defended freedom of speech are the two main reasons it can't. Your country, on the other hand, has allowed both of these rights to be eroded and may well pay a heavy price for it in the future.


I know the stated reason. Is it working, the self defense thing? It doesn't seem to be.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Strawman (with "let me recap" being a clumsy red flag, by the way).

The main purpose of firearms is defense. Individuals have a right to them because the right of self-defense is a basic human right. While it's not the only reason our Constitution protects that basic human right, it specifically forbids the state from infringing upon it because, historically, every state that has engaged in extreme authoritarian abuse of its populace has facilitated it by restricting the right to bear arms (and other rights, such as freedom of speech, assembly, movement, and so on). You say it's not working here, but our government is not yet engaging in extreme authoritarian abuse. Personally, I think this Administration would do it if it could get away with it, and the armed populace and our fiercely defended freedom of speech are the two main reasons it can't. Your country, on the other hand, has allowed both of these rights to be eroded and may well pay a heavy price for it in the future.


I know the stated reason. Is it working, the self defense thing? It doesn't seem to be.

Well, so far we haven't had collectivist authoritarianism here, and we have half the violent crime rate you have. Self-defense is natural, though and, most would agree, a human right: so the real question is whether what your state is doing, disarming the people and interfering with their right to defend themselves, is working. So far, every credible attempt at analysis has shows this doesn't accomplish Jaques Schidt. On top of that, it may well be greasing the skids for future authoritarians or invaders. One would think Europeans would know better, but I suppose a generation or two is long enough for even hard-learned lessons to be lost.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
According to this disreputable source, our first is still outperforming the same freedom enjoyed by some of our EU cousins. No need yet to progress to the second.

Let the bloviation resume.


why not draw a line in the sand and protect the first? That is after all the best one. 4th too.


Like this? It seems to take care of both.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

Well, so far we haven't had collectivist authoritarianism here, and we have half the violent crime rate you have.


Out of our two govts, yours is the one that dodged the question of whether it has the right to kill citizens. As to the second comment, you've stated that the US has a lower violent crime rate than the UK a number of times with no proof. Repeating it without proof won't convince me.

Quote:
Self-defense is natural, though and, most would agree, a human right: so the real question is whether what your state is doing, disarming the people and interfering with their right to defend themselves, is working.


Self defense is natural, yet even your state controls the types of weapons one can use. So does Britain. So whether one has that right isn't in question. What one can use is.

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So far, every credible attempt at analysis has shows this doesn't accomplish Jaques Schidt. On top of that, it may well be greasing the skids for future authoritarians or invaders. One would think Europeans would know better, but I suppose a generation or two is long enough for even hard-learned lessons to be lost.


What should europeans know? The british know that when they come together they can repel a hugely strong invading force. what else?
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.


Last edited by juniper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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